VFR vs IFR Supercubs
- Thread starter Samsam
- Start date
Cajun Joe
GONE WEST
LS86 or Hammond, LA
OK after reading this tread for the past two weeks I had to get an answer
from some one who has had actual IFR Cert experience. I've known Mike Vivion
to be a bulldog when he feels he is correct but also quick to understand
differing opinions. I then sent a copy of the above thread to my friend
in Florida who I mentioned has the IFR Cub with the proper TC. This
is exactly Mike's very valid point.
The following is Ron's response:
Joe, Vivion is correct. This was the point I tried to make about my airplane,
that the equipment alone does not make an airplane legal to fly under IFR.
It must also be FAA certified IFR. Some airplanes have this approval on
their TC, mine does. Others IFR legal planes do not. This is because mine,
like others, received the IFR certification during manufacturing.
Others received IFR certification after manufacture through a Supplemental TC,
usually through a "Field Approval". Since the original Type Certificate,
without IFR, has already been "printed", the approval is issued on another
piece of paper called a Supplemental Type Certificate, along with the
Form 337. To be IFR legal, it must have the equipment, the airplane,
and the installation all approved on one or the other type of certificate.
Wishing it were otherwise so you could have an IFR airplane doesn't make it so.
This is why I made an "issue" that, as far as I know, N117RB is the only PA18
that is IFR approved on the TC. All others, and I believe there are very few,
got them through the STC process. That is a major reason that my PA18
cost me so much money and took Jim Richardson so long to finish
manufacturing the plane - FAA and paper work. I believe this is also
why he refuses to build another one IFR legal. It is also why I named
it Ultimate Cub. Now Jim is using that "name" to describe one of his
models. They however are not IFR legal, even with the equipment.
Ron
from some one who has had actual IFR Cert experience. I've known Mike Vivion
to be a bulldog when he feels he is correct but also quick to understand
differing opinions. I then sent a copy of the above thread to my friend
in Florida who I mentioned has the IFR Cub with the proper TC. This
is exactly Mike's very valid point.
The following is Ron's response:
Joe, Vivion is correct. This was the point I tried to make about my airplane,
that the equipment alone does not make an airplane legal to fly under IFR.
It must also be FAA certified IFR. Some airplanes have this approval on
their TC, mine does. Others IFR legal planes do not. This is because mine,
like others, received the IFR certification during manufacturing.
Others received IFR certification after manufacture through a Supplemental TC,
usually through a "Field Approval". Since the original Type Certificate,
without IFR, has already been "printed", the approval is issued on another
piece of paper called a Supplemental Type Certificate, along with the
Form 337. To be IFR legal, it must have the equipment, the airplane,
and the installation all approved on one or the other type of certificate.
Wishing it were otherwise so you could have an IFR airplane doesn't make it so.
This is why I made an "issue" that, as far as I know, N117RB is the only PA18
that is IFR approved on the TC. All others, and I believe there are very few,
got them through the STC process. That is a major reason that my PA18
cost me so much money and took Jim Richardson so long to finish
manufacturing the plane - FAA and paper work. I believe this is also
why he refuses to build another one IFR legal. It is also why I named
it Ultimate Cub. Now Jim is using that "name" to describe one of his
models. They however are not IFR legal, even with the equipment.
Ron
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Thanks, Joe. I sort of suspected something like that might be the case.
Even with the appropriate equipment for IFR, your pitot/static system and transponder/encoder/altimeter have to be checked to IFR standards, rather than VFR standards. That alone can be a tough test on a Cub, unless someone did a really good job during construction or rebuild.
As I mentioned before, you can fly IFR every day in any airplane and as long as nothing bad happens.....
You can take an instrument checkride in VFR conditions in a VFR only airplane with the appropriate instrumentation and radio equipment. That doesn't necessarily mean the airplane is legal for IFR.
MTV
Even with the appropriate equipment for IFR, your pitot/static system and transponder/encoder/altimeter have to be checked to IFR standards, rather than VFR standards. That alone can be a tough test on a Cub, unless someone did a really good job during construction or rebuild.
As I mentioned before, you can fly IFR every day in any airplane and as long as nothing bad happens.....
You can take an instrument checkride in VFR conditions in a VFR only airplane with the appropriate instrumentation and radio equipment. That doesn't necessarily mean the airplane is legal for IFR.
MTV
behindpropellers
Registered User
NE Ohio
Joe-
That makes two part 23 Top Cubs that are certified IFR. The other one is Crazy Bobs.
MTV-
I can't find where it says I can or cannot certify a 1957 172 IFR or a 1957 PA-18?? Am I missing something here?
Our 172 is IFR certified, has no heated pitot and venturis for vacuum. I took my instrument checkride in it.
Tim
That makes two part 23 Top Cubs that are certified IFR. The other one is Crazy Bobs.
MTV-
I can't find where it says I can or cannot certify a 1957 172 IFR or a 1957 PA-18?? Am I missing something here?
Our 172 is IFR certified, has no heated pitot and venturis for vacuum. I took my instrument checkride in it.
Tim
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Tim,
Look at the 172 TC. As I noted earlier:
From the Cessna 172 TCDS, under Applicable to all models: a placard is required, which states...
"Known icing conditions to be avoided. This airplane is certified for the following
flight operations as of date of original airworthiness certificate:
(DAY NIGHT VFR IFR)" (as applicable)"
If you don't have that placard displayed prominently in view of the pilot, your airplane isn't legal for ANY flight. This too may be one of the most violated FAR's when it comes to airworthiness. My airplane didn't have most of the required placards.
So, all models of the 172 are approvable for IFR, IF they are properly equipped.
There is nothing in the regulations which requires a heated pitot for IFR flight, and in fact, a lot of IFR approved airplanes didn't come with one. Venturis are an approved means of providing vacuum to gyro instruments.
Here's a link to CFR 14 Part 91.205, which describes required equipment:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.3.7.3&idno=14
Finally, as I pointed out earlier, there is a significant difference in certification between a Top Cub (model CC-18-180) and a PA-18. The airplane pictured above is a Super Cub, model PA-18, NOT a Top Cub (though I realize CC has muddied the waters by calling many of their rebuilds "Top Cubs"). From Landings.com:
N-number : N117RB
Aircraft Serial Number : 9930CC
Aircraft Manufacturer : PIPER/CUB CRAFTERS
Model : PA-18-150
Engine Manufacturer : LYCOMING
Model : O-360 SERIES
Aircraft Year : 2002
MTV
Look at the 172 TC. As I noted earlier:
From the Cessna 172 TCDS, under Applicable to all models: a placard is required, which states...
"Known icing conditions to be avoided. This airplane is certified for the following
flight operations as of date of original airworthiness certificate:
(DAY NIGHT VFR IFR)" (as applicable)"
If you don't have that placard displayed prominently in view of the pilot, your airplane isn't legal for ANY flight. This too may be one of the most violated FAR's when it comes to airworthiness. My airplane didn't have most of the required placards.
So, all models of the 172 are approvable for IFR, IF they are properly equipped.
There is nothing in the regulations which requires a heated pitot for IFR flight, and in fact, a lot of IFR approved airplanes didn't come with one. Venturis are an approved means of providing vacuum to gyro instruments.
Here's a link to CFR 14 Part 91.205, which describes required equipment:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.3.7.3&idno=14
Finally, as I pointed out earlier, there is a significant difference in certification between a Top Cub (model CC-18-180) and a PA-18. The airplane pictured above is a Super Cub, model PA-18, NOT a Top Cub (though I realize CC has muddied the waters by calling many of their rebuilds "Top Cubs"). From Landings.com:
N-number : N117RB
Aircraft Serial Number : 9930CC
Aircraft Manufacturer : PIPER/CUB CRAFTERS
Model : PA-18-150
Engine Manufacturer : LYCOMING
Model : O-360 SERIES
Aircraft Year : 2002
MTV
Alaska_Rallyer
Registered User
Let me take a stab at this one. As far as Part 23 planes it is rather simple. The type of operation will be specified on the tc, and the approved AFM.
23.1525. The kinds of operation authorized (e.g., VFR, IFR, day or night) and the meteorological conditions (e.g., icing) to which the operation of the airplane is limited or from which it is prohibited, must be established appropriate to the installed equipment.
The approved flight manual will have... 23.1583 (h) A list of the kinds of operation to which the airplane is limited or from which it is prohibited under Sec. 23.1525, and also a list of installed equipment that affects any operating limitation and identification as to the equipment's required operational status for the kinds of operation for which approval has been given.
Car 3 planes or you 18 drivers
TYPES OF OPERATION
§ 3.750 Types of operation. The type of operation to which the airplane is limited shall be established by the category in which it has been found eligible for certification and by the equipment installed. (See Parts 42 and 43 of this chapter.)
And i forgot to add that you as a pilot will operate the AC IAW FAR 91.9 " ..no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved airplane or rotorcraft flight manual, markings, placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of country or registry.
Sooo.... like said. You may have all the req equipment to fly IFR but unless IFR is specified for that Aircraft as a kind of operation permitted then you would not be legeal to fly it as such.
23.1525. The kinds of operation authorized (e.g., VFR, IFR, day or night) and the meteorological conditions (e.g., icing) to which the operation of the airplane is limited or from which it is prohibited, must be established appropriate to the installed equipment.
The approved flight manual will have... 23.1583 (h) A list of the kinds of operation to which the airplane is limited or from which it is prohibited under Sec. 23.1525, and also a list of installed equipment that affects any operating limitation and identification as to the equipment's required operational status for the kinds of operation for which approval has been given.
Car 3 planes or you 18 drivers
TYPES OF OPERATION
§ 3.750 Types of operation. The type of operation to which the airplane is limited shall be established by the category in which it has been found eligible for certification and by the equipment installed. (See Parts 42 and 43 of this chapter.)
And i forgot to add that you as a pilot will operate the AC IAW FAR 91.9 " ..no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved airplane or rotorcraft flight manual, markings, placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of country or registry.
Sooo.... like said. You may have all the req equipment to fly IFR but unless IFR is specified for that Aircraft as a kind of operation permitted then you would not be legeal to fly it as such.
Alaska_Rallyer
Registered User
mvivion
The placard (day night VFR IFR) is not on all 172 aircraft. That one does not start tell you get to the 172L model. If you want to find the type of operation for the early 172's you need to look at the flight manual.
The placard (day night VFR IFR) is not on all 172 aircraft. That one does not start tell you get to the 172L model. If you want to find the type of operation for the early 172's you need to look at the flight manual.
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
I made an agreement with myself, when I bought my PA18 a number of years ago, to keep to VFR only, keep it simple and to buy a handheld gps for navigation only. I fly a different aircraft with my business, and get all the ifr I want in it. Things were just right until I flew into Sky Harbor airport in Duluth VFR early in the day, planning on leaving in the afternoon, well ahead of weather predicted to move in.
That was fine until I took off from Sky Harbor, a beautiful little airport sitting on Lake Superior, having received a briefing an hour before calling for 1500 ft ceilings at Duluth International (DHT). During the climbout I was enjoying the beauty of the North Shore with great visibility when all of a sudden I found myself in the soup. All I had was the altimeter, a compass which is pretty much useless (at least in my cub), airspeed indicator, a turn indicator and my Garmin 195. I immediately put the nose down and reduced power and got out of the soup, but that feeling was very, very unsettling! I came back and after speaking with the folks at the airport decided to put in an electric turn and bank indicator to at least make it a bit easier to know if my wings were level.
I did come back and do some work with a great instructor, shooting an approach with the above-mentioned equipment, and it was a handful doing so in the supercub. Not even close to the workload in a CT210! Staying competent in the aircraft, regardless of what is in it, is of such huge importance, it seems to me!
That was fine until I took off from Sky Harbor, a beautiful little airport sitting on Lake Superior, having received a briefing an hour before calling for 1500 ft ceilings at Duluth International (DHT). During the climbout I was enjoying the beauty of the North Shore with great visibility when all of a sudden I found myself in the soup. All I had was the altimeter, a compass which is pretty much useless (at least in my cub), airspeed indicator, a turn indicator and my Garmin 195. I immediately put the nose down and reduced power and got out of the soup, but that feeling was very, very unsettling! I came back and after speaking with the folks at the airport decided to put in an electric turn and bank indicator to at least make it a bit easier to know if my wings were level.
I did come back and do some work with a great instructor, shooting an approach with the above-mentioned equipment, and it was a handful doing so in the supercub. Not even close to the workload in a CT210! Staying competent in the aircraft, regardless of what is in it, is of such huge importance, it seems to me!
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Wind,
Go to Aircraft Spruce, look at compasses, and order a S.I.R.S. Navigator compass. These things are well damped, and work beautifully in several airplanes I've been around, including at least one Cub, and one Husky, and my 170, all of which are hard cases for getting a compass to work.
They really are superb devices.
And, thanks for sharing this story. There are a lot of folks out there who say they'll never fight weather in one of these airplanes, but spend enough time at it, and you may. I'm not a big fan of IFR Cubs, but some basic equipment is a life saver in a situation such as you describe.
And, yes, I've been there a few times as well.
MTV
Go to Aircraft Spruce, look at compasses, and order a S.I.R.S. Navigator compass. These things are well damped, and work beautifully in several airplanes I've been around, including at least one Cub, and one Husky, and my 170, all of which are hard cases for getting a compass to work.
They really are superb devices.
And, thanks for sharing this story. There are a lot of folks out there who say they'll never fight weather in one of these airplanes, but spend enough time at it, and you may. I'm not a big fan of IFR Cubs, but some basic equipment is a life saver in a situation such as you describe.
And, yes, I've been there a few times as well.
MTV
Okay here's a question for you. If you have a supercub with all the
bells and whistles for IFR flight, but it isn't IFR certified and assuming
that you don't enter into IMC weather conditions.
1. Are you legal to use the aircraft for instrument training "Under the Hood" with an instuctor,or recurrency training with a second pilot behind you if instrument rated.
2. In the case of the above question #1, or in the case that you are instrument rated and want to stay current or maintain controlled
aircraft separation, are you allowed to file IFR as long as you stay in VFR
conditions.
bells and whistles for IFR flight, but it isn't IFR certified and assuming
that you don't enter into IMC weather conditions.
1. Are you legal to use the aircraft for instrument training "Under the Hood" with an instuctor,or recurrency training with a second pilot behind you if instrument rated.
2. In the case of the above question #1, or in the case that you are instrument rated and want to stay current or maintain controlled
aircraft separation, are you allowed to file IFR as long as you stay in VFR
conditions.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
I requested that information from a FSDO, whose answer was yes to #1 and no to #2.
Their theory is that if you FILE IFR, you ARE IFR, whether in IMC or not. But as long as you are operating VFR, you can SIMULATE IFR, with the usual requirements.
I don't know if I buy that totally, but....
MTV
Their theory is that if you FILE IFR, you ARE IFR, whether in IMC or not. But as long as you are operating VFR, you can SIMULATE IFR, with the usual requirements.
I don't know if I buy that totally, but....
MTV
Let me ask a couple stupid questions. I have been away from aviation for so long and I have not ever studied the rules of experimental build airplanes. Can an experimental Cub be legally flown IFR if it has the proper equipment and has been certified? Does an experimental airplane have a TC? Can any experimental plane be certified IFR?
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Yes, an experimental category aircraft can legally flown IFR. No, they don't have a Type Certificate. Type Certificates are intended as the basis from which a manufacturer will build many (hopefully) aircraft of the "type".
I'm not sure what hoops one must go through to certify a homebuilt for IFR flight, but I'm sure someone on here does. I do know that it can be done.
MTV
I'm not sure what hoops one must go through to certify a homebuilt for IFR flight, but I'm sure someone on here does. I do know that it can be done.
MTV
I just got an Aspen E5 and a JPI engine monitor installed in my SC-150. The vacuum system was removed and I lost a little bit of weight in the panel. and I am meeting all of the instrument requirements for IFR flight under part 91. I understand that this is resurrecting a very old thread. But some of the statements made in this thread just do not make sense at all. The story so far that is coming out of some of the contributors to this thread is that an airplane has to be certified on its original type certificate for IFR or that an STC has to be issued. This statement is nowhere to be found in the FARs and specifically is NOT mentioned in the IFR requirements for airplanes that are actually listed.
Moreover, the SuperCub TC says nothing about IFR Day/Night or IFR Day/Night, (click on the link if you want to confirm it.) So following the reasoning of those who say we need a STC for IFR, we should immediately ground all the PA-18s and other old planes that have not obtained a STC to fly in the air during some portion of the 24 hour day and some version of possible weather conditions.
Presumably, the old planes that were built before the FAA included VFR and IFR flight approvals in the TCs of new aircraft were all grandfathered in. Otherwise there would have been some kind of a general aviation insurrection. Moreover, lack of TC "certification" is not equivalent to prohibition of VFR or IFR flight, any more than it is a prohibition of eating donuts in the air.
This is the full extent of what 14 CFR 91.205 says about what a plane has to have for IFR flight:
d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:
(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in § 121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with § 29.1303(g) of this chapter.
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8 Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).
That's all the rules say. As far as I am concerned, I am OK for IFR flight.
Moreover, the SuperCub TC says nothing about IFR Day/Night or IFR Day/Night, (click on the link if you want to confirm it.) So following the reasoning of those who say we need a STC for IFR, we should immediately ground all the PA-18s and other old planes that have not obtained a STC to fly in the air during some portion of the 24 hour day and some version of possible weather conditions.
Presumably, the old planes that were built before the FAA included VFR and IFR flight approvals in the TCs of new aircraft were all grandfathered in. Otherwise there would have been some kind of a general aviation insurrection. Moreover, lack of TC "certification" is not equivalent to prohibition of VFR or IFR flight, any more than it is a prohibition of eating donuts in the air.
This is the full extent of what 14 CFR 91.205 says about what a plane has to have for IFR flight:
d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:
(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in § 121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with § 29.1303(g) of this chapter.
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8 Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).
That's all the rules say. As far as I am concerned, I am OK for IFR flight.
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Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Agree. And certified ground-based navigation (VOR, ILS), if certified GPS navigation not installed.
That's what I'm hanging my hat on for what I do and what Windy called "friendly" IFR when chatting with her. I like the term.
I.e. simple layers, and getting out of fog with tops at a few hundred feet agl and clear everywhere else nearby, or marine layer with bottoms at 1.5K and tops at 4k and clear everywhere else in the world.
An onerous example - 49WA is ALWAYS reporting clear while foggy here. Either that, or the de facto (at least self-proclaimed) airport manager there is - well - trying to make me feel bad for not basing there. I'd bet a lot that he's competent with Photoshop.
That's what I'm hanging my hat on for what I do and what Windy called "friendly" IFR when chatting with her. I like the term.
I.e. simple layers, and getting out of fog with tops at a few hundred feet agl and clear everywhere else nearby, or marine layer with bottoms at 1.5K and tops at 4k and clear everywhere else in the world.
An onerous example - 49WA is ALWAYS reporting clear while foggy here. Either that, or the de facto (at least self-proclaimed) airport manager there is - well - trying to make me feel bad for not basing there. I'd bet a lot that he's competent with Photoshop.
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wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Does your AFM call out VFR or IFR operation limits?
Web
Web
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Nope. As I see it, the part 91 requirements cited above are controlling. And as a matter of opinion, they are sufficient for "friendly IFR".
As a practical matter, what is important? That we can stay right-side-up, we can navigate to our destination, and we can execute an approach procedure at the destination if necessary.
As a practical matter, what is important? That we can stay right-side-up, we can navigate to our destination, and we can execute an approach procedure at the destination if necessary.
md11freighter
FRIEND
Wasilla
My 53A model manual from Piper specifically states day/night vfr for approved ops. No mention of IFR anywhere in the manual. That’s just fine by me.
Jack Wilson in Galkona used to have a no kidding IFR cub he bought from the factory to use on his 135 certificate. He said he’d use to drop off customers on St Elias.
Jack Wilson in Galkona used to have a no kidding IFR cub he bought from the factory to use on his 135 certificate. He said he’d use to drop off customers on St Elias.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Part 91 is a flight rules regulation. it has nothing to do with a certification of an airplane. Of course if the certified airplane doesn't have the basic minimum Part 91 equipment, it is not allowed to be flown. So, this is a pilot rule. He is not allowed to fly IFR without the above.
The word is suitable not certified ground-based.
When a manual states "day/night vfr for approved ops." it is only an indication of the equipment which was installed at the time of the original certification.
The regulations for operating under Part 135 (for hire) may be different. Part 91 is for you and me going flying for the fun of it.
Dave Barras
FRIEND
New Iberia, LA
As I was reading this post this morning I said to myself “and Cajun Joe lives on” Steve I love it to.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Aren't all cubs IFR?
Glenn
Glenn
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
IFR and RR.
jnorris
MEMBER
Wisconsin
Great story. I would not have enjoyed that flight very much! I'm lucky that my Super Cub has an electric turn and bank front and center in the panel. Hope I never have to use it to get out of the soup, but it's there if I need it. I practice "needle, ball and airspeed" every now and then, and it's work. Not really very enjoyable. But a handy skill to have "just in case". Other than that, my Super Cub is and shall always remain VFR only!
jnorris
MEMBER
Wisconsin
Mike, it's not hard at all. Since there's no TC to worry about, there are only two things the operator of a homebuilt needs to worry about. First, the operating limitations issued by the FAA as a part of the airworthiness certificate must contain language that allows operation under IFR. Assuming that is in place, the only other requirement is to meet the Part 91 regulations for minimum equipment, transponder and pitot-static tests. One additional thing: if a GPS is used as primary nav, the unit must meet the requirements of the TSO for an IFR GPS. All this needs to be documented in the aircraft's records, as with any aircraft.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
As a follow up to this discussion, with a bit of a tangent: At least one government agency was operating their CC-18-180 Top Cubs at “night”. The Type certificate of this FAR Part 23 aircraft specified, in Kinds of Operations: “ Day VFR”.
A while back, Cub Crafters announced that NEW CC-18-180 aircraft would be “Day/Night VFR”, and that older airplanes could be converted to “Night” approval. To do so, however, those aircraft would have to be returned to the manufacturer for certification. There was a long explanation included, which basically stated that CC needed to verify the proper equipment was installed (lighting), etc. The price of this certification was “interesting” to say the least......yow!
MTV
A while back, Cub Crafters announced that NEW CC-18-180 aircraft would be “Day/Night VFR”, and that older airplanes could be converted to “Night” approval. To do so, however, those aircraft would have to be returned to the manufacturer for certification. There was a long explanation included, which basically stated that CC needed to verify the proper equipment was installed (lighting), etc. The price of this certification was “interesting” to say the least......yow!
MTV
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
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