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Thread: EDO 2000 hatches

  1. #1
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    EDO 2000 hatches

    The only thing I don't like about EDO 2000's is the 6" wide hatches. It would be so nice to be able to carry gas down there. We agree so far?

    Here's a dumb question... Can I modify the hatches/covers to make 'em wider? Well, one anyway. Without going to look at 'em, I picture skin & compartment enlargements as well as the frame/hatch, but is there anything structural along the tops of 'em?

    Oh, and since my floats burned up in the hangar fire, I need new ones (well, another set)
    Neighbor has plenty of spare rigging, I need a set of the float tubes only. I saw a set advertised in Ak, but I don't need to set up some trucker's retirement fund.
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  2. #2
    Airwrench's Avatar
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    Yes, the top rails, which limit the width of the hatches, are structural. - Steve

  3. #3
    DW's Avatar
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    Logan take a look at some of the plastic boat tanks they come in all sizes and gallons and get a small auto electric fuel pump and some hose to Reach the wing tank, you could plumb it in like a belly tank or coil the hose up in the float.

    DW

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    yep

    I fought that quite a bit last year. Found a can that will slip in the hatches (BARELY). They are the chainsaw cans they sell at AIH in Anchorage now. One side is for bar oil and the other holds the gas mix. Expensive can. But if you need a few extra gallons, they will work. I found the bladders and such to be like $200 so that wasn't an option. Anyone find a better way to skin the cat?

  5. #5
    mvivion's Avatar
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    A friend who was handy with a MIG welder made a set of aluminum cans to fit through his hatches. Lots of work, but if you like projects....

    MTV

  6. #6
    RedEye's Avatar
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    6 two gallon oil jugs fit nicely in Edo hatches for an extra 12 gallons of fuel. Or 24 gallons if you fill both floats. Been doing it for years. Works just fine.

  7. #7
    Torch's Avatar
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    If anyone finds a good size can they can get down there let me know. Gas is your friend.

  8. #8
    RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torch
    If anyone finds a good size can they can get down there let me know. Gas is your friend.
    Donnie,

    We posted at the same time.....see above post. If you want pics I can post themas well.

  9. #9
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    OK, my head is clear now.
    It does make more sense to find/fab something to fit in there than to modify a float!! My head has been in reinforce/modify mode for a long time now.

    So, there are some of you who've found cans that fit... can you give a name/source? Something i can google for??
    TIA.
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  10. #10
    DW's Avatar
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    Logan is the hatch opening exactly 6" there's a nice spillproof PVC 5 gallon gas can that is 18.25Hx6.5Wx13.75D for around $20.

    DW

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    DW,

    So you only have to enlarge the opening by .5", right??

    John Scott

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    I have not found any commercially available gas cans above 2 gallons that will fit through the EDO hatches.

  13. #13
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Hey thanks Dennis, nice try.

    StalledOne, that's NOT what I wanted to hear, but do you recall the brand name? 2 gals will be easier to get to the wingtop.

    I reckon I COULD carry gas in the baggage like everyone else 'eh?
    Imagine worrying about extra gas when I'm about as airworthy as a (dry) cowpie.
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  14. #14

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    Hi Logan
    I've been using 5 litre cans from Canadian Tire for several years.
    Each side will hold 12 gallons and one large funnel,almost as fast as large cans. And easier to handle on the water.
    Bernie

  15. #15
    DW's Avatar
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    No John just .25" on each side of the hatch. were get'in closer to em fit'in now. a couple more post Logan and they should fit just fine.

    DW

  16. #16
    M1's Avatar
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    Logan: The only gas container that I have found that will fit the EDO2000 hatch is the Wedco W-120. It's pretty small at 1 1/4US gallons per container, but 7 of them fit nicely into the float, which gives me at least 1 hour more flying. Canadian tire had them, last time I checked.

    Mike

  17. #17
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pin
    Hi Logan
    ***(snippage)***
    Bernie
    Bernie!! Hey, a W-Lake S'cubber!! I had no idea.
    I'm with Mary @ the Nimpo Lake Resort, she says she knows/remembers you. (She knows everybody after 40 yrs here)

    We'll haft'a get together, I don't remember you @ the Floatplane meets, do you come out to them? I bought my cub from Brian Reid when he moved to W.Lake, you must know him. It was ratty/timed out so cheap, and now I'm paying my sweat equity.

    I'll be ground-bound for another couple months, but have a nice big new dock... (hint, hint). The lake is still hard but black so won't be long. Free room/board for cubbers/friends with a leetle notice.

    See ya's (& that pilot wife of yours)!!
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  18. #18
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Hi Mike,
    I'm wondering if 7 cans in the float or 2 big cans in the baggage is best. I've hated 5-gals cans ever since the first one I hefted up there, & I reckon it's less fun on a bobbing float.

    Plenty of time fer me to worry about that stuff, I'm now concerned with the temp/humidity in the shop (aka hangar)
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  19. #19
    Jerry Gaston's Avatar
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    NimpoCub I went thru the same thing trying small cans ,soft sided cans and finally ended up putting on a belly pod. It was a Landis 18 gallon with dry storage and it works great. Forget the cans in the floats that is where you keep the wine and cheese to keep it cool.

  20. #20
    Crash's Avatar
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    You might look at 2 gallon jugs that oil or hydraulic fluid comes in. Some of them are pretty narrow.

    Your best bet would be to sell your Edo 2000's and get a set of Baumann floats. You can drop three 5 gallon cans into each float locker and still have room for some gear.

    The best float going for a Cub in my opinion.

    http://www.baumannfloats.com/

    Crash

  21. #21
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Hi Jerry (I loved your museum(s) of the Rockies)
    That might make good sense. Since I'd only need it for the odd looong trips, how long does it take to install/remove?

    Hi Crash,
    You talkin' those plastic jugs that I buy auto oil in? I (briefly) considered those, but looked too skinny to handle any abrasion/vibration. I could get Mom to knit some oil jug booties.

    Yeah, Baumanns & Aquas have nice wide decks & hatches, but a friend here changed to Baumanns on his C180 & he suffered a lot on breaking free of the water. Does your mileage vary from that??

    I've heard **that everything is a tradeoff, **nothing is perfect, **and a few others...
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  22. #22
    Crash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NimpoCub
    Hi Jerry (I loved your museum(s) of the Rockies)

    Yeah, Baumanns & Aquas have nice wide decks & hatches, but a friend here changed to Baumanns on his C180 & he suffered a lot on breaking free of the water. Does your mileage vary from that??
    Hmm.....

    Baumann doesn't make a float for a Cessna 180. The biggest float they make is a 2720 for a Maule.. If he has Baumann 2720's on a C-180, they don't belong there!

    http://www.baumannfloats.com/floatmodels.aspx

    My Baumann BF-2100's work great. I wouldn't trade them for any other float.

    They get on step fast and off the water. Handle chop and step turn very well. Feet don't get wet when stepping onto the tails (tails don't sink). Fast in the air. Almost zero water in compartments over the entire season. Big flat decks to fish off of and walk on. Huge cargo compartments, I never put anything in the extended baggage. Double convex bottoms so no spray rails needed and very little spray. Lighter then any other Cub float.

    Whats not to like.

    Take care.

    Crash

  23. #23

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    What's not to like? the cost.

  24. #24
    Crash's Avatar
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    I've seen a few used sets of BF-2100's go for $15K. That is what I paid for mine with only 20 hours on them.

    Some Edo 2000's are going for $12K and are 30+ years old.

    There are enough used floats around there is no need to pay retail.

    Crash

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    And what's wrong with 30 year Edos that are tight in good shape?
    They didn't cost anywhere near 15K..........

    Do you really fly your floats to the limit where the extra added performance of the Baumans let you get in and out of places I can't get to?

    Sure they'd be nice to have under the Cub but I just don't believe I have been in a place where Baumans would have made a difference. Next time I go "damn, if I only had Baumans...." I'll let ya know and maybe spend that 15K.

  26. #26
    Crash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StalledOut
    And what's wrong with 30 year Edos that are tight in good shape?
    They didn't cost anywhere near 15K..........

    Do you really fly your floats to the limit where the extra added performance of the Baumans let you get in and out of places I can't get to?

    Sure they'd be nice to have under the Cub but I just don't believe I have been in a place where Baumans would have made a difference. Next time I go "damn, if I only had Baumans...." I'll let ya know and maybe spend that 15K.
    This thread was about trying get gas cans to fit through the tiny little hatches of Edo 2000's.

    Edo 2000's have been the standard Cub float for the last 40 years. Not knocking them, I just feel there are better options TODAY when it comes to PA-18 floats.

    New Edo 2000's are about the same price as new Baumanns. Used there is not that much difference when you consider the age of the floats and having to add another $3K for a gas pod to get the same range as other floats.

    My choice of floats currently available would be...

    #1 Baumann BF-2100'
    #2 Wipline 2100's
    #3 PK 2050's
    #4 Edo 2000's
    #5 Aqua 1900's

    This could all change if Aerocet gets their 2100's STC'd. At that point everything might drop down a notch if they're light and durable.

    Sorry my comment got your pants in a wad.

    I feel the same way about King radios. They were good in their day, but it's 2008 and there are much better options available.

    Take care.

    Crash

  27. #27
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I agree with Crash, to a point. The Baumanns are great floats, no doubt. On a Cub, though, the ability to legally go to 2000 pounds makes the Wip floats the stand out in my opinion, even though they are a bit heavier than the Baumanns.

    It's hard to beat the performance of EDO 2000's, no doubt. That said, as Crash notes, there are OTHER benefits that can and should influence ones' float choice.

    MTV

  28. #28
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash
    Hmm.....
    Baumann doesn't make a float for a Cessna 180.
    Hmm...
    That story is several years old, I'm likely mistraken. Oops.

    Wow...again...there sure is a pool of knowledge here.

    I can only sniff at what I hope to afford & these last couple years' projects have crimped that a bit. Since I "have" EDO rigging, I'd like to find a set of EDO floats. Maybe we can argue this again when I can better afford other options.
    Thanks y'all 'eh? (bilingual)
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  29. #29
    Torch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david jaranson
    Quote Originally Posted by Torch
    If anyone finds a good size can they can get down there let me know. Gas is your friend.
    Donnie,

    We posted at the same time.....see above post. If you want pics I can post themas well.
    David. I am not familiar with the oil cans. The pic would be appreciated. That would help me a bunch on my trips to the Brooks Range. Thanks.

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    I guess that everyone with cubs on Edo 2000's around Lake Hood and Spenard must all be flawed in the decision process then because I sure don't see a lot of whips or baumans around the lake.

    And what does "add 3K to get the same range as other floats" mean?

    I thought range was determined by the amount of usable fuel in your tanks, not by what fuel you carry in your floats.

    The few occasions when you want to carry extra fuel, you can with either floats, just in different sized containers. I was wrong, the ones I have are 1.5 gallon not 2. They sell at Walmart for $2.99. You can pack a lot in a compartment because they are small and can conform to the curvature of the compartment. They take more time to fill the tank but are more controllable when lifting them up over the wing, and less spills over water is a good thing these days.

    What do I know? Only been hanging edos under the cub for 27 years.

    There might be a better float but I have not been in a situation where I couldn't do something or had to turn around and cursed under my breath muttering "if they were only Baumans, Whips, or PK's......"

    I do like the large flat decks, and I am sure the ducks around the lake would too. Just think how much more duck crap I could get loaded up on the top of the float !

    The back of the float going under is a GOOD thing, it washes a lot of that off..................

  31. #31

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    Why not a Turtle Pak with 12 volt pump or some other portable fuel cell? Search the site as I recall past discussions re: these fuel options. Downside is they are spendy!

  32. #32
    bushmaster's Avatar
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    Where are you getting float hatches for the 2000 edos and at what cost

  33. #33
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Kenmore sells the hatch kits.

    MTV

  34. #34
    irishfield's Avatar
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    Nimpo... you're going OM.. anything wing wise to stop you from just making bigger tanks? Then you won't have to worry about little fuel cans.

  35. #35
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    I just had to reply to some of these comments...
    Without any offense to you, just comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by StalledOut
    I guess that everyone with cubs on Edo 2000's around Lake Hood and Spenard must all be flawed in the decision process then because I sure don't see a lot of whips or baumans around the lake.

    I have a friend down the lake here who makes a lot of his decisions based on what "everyone" does. I don't agree w/that method.

    I thought range was determined by the amount of usable fuel in your tanks, not by what fuel you carry in your floats.

    Range to me, is how far I can go, with the fuel I can bring along.

    What do I know? Only been hanging edos under the cub for 27 years.

    You probably know all about EDOs then. BUT, like Crash said, nothing stays the same forever (27 yrs is forever!)

    I do like the large flat decks, and I am sure the ducks around the lake would too.

    That would make you AND the ducks happy. Hell... Ducks Unlimited might lease the tails of your floats!!
    Hope you're smilin' (too) StalledOut.
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  36. #36
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Hi, you Irish guy,
    Nope, but I don't like the idea of normally flying around with half gas, half air in the tanks. Kinda condensation-phobic I reckon. I'm not doing the wings until next winter, so keep buggin' me.

    Not very often I'll be that far from fuel, and the hassle factor of carrying Xtra gas (however) won't cramp my style if I'm on that kinda adventure. My missions thus far have been quite close to home, but I'm getting braver!!
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  37. #37
    Crash's Avatar
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    Aerocet announced at the Alaskan Airmans Show that their 2200's are now STC'd for Piper PA-12's and PA-18's.

    The only catch that kind of galls me is the floats retail for $17,000.00 for experimental Cub's etc. OR the exact same floats cost $26,500.00 for certified PA-18's / 12's.

    Another "certified" rip off......

    Crash

    P.S. interesting reading...

    AVIATION DIGEST ARTICLE PUBLISHED DECEMBER 2006
    Product Reviews - "On the Water - Aluminum vs. Fiberglass DVD Available" by Jeff Moody

    "For many seaplane owners the argument has always been "hull" vs "floats" when it came to aircraft design. As the choices in the float camps were limited to aluminum float designs for many decades the argument came down to a personal preference in aircraft utility and design. However, as with the aircraft industry itself, the choices for current and aspiring float plane operators has opened up and now there are choices between the "traditional" aluminum construction and the new molded fiberglass model.

    Wipaire, Inc. of South Saint Paul, MN, the worlds leading manufacturer of aluminum floats, has now produced a very thorough and educational DVD comparing the construction, performance and all around head to head technical comparison between the two types of floats.

    With company President Bob Wiplinger acting as host and supported by employees of Wipaire, Bob takes on a set of Aerocet fiberglass floats in a head to head test that covers all the bases.

    Give Bob credit for this DVD production as it is the fairest and best documented comparison of two competing products that I have ever seen in aviation. Beginning with an explanation of the circumstances that brought him to do the test, namely some old myths about aluminum float construction and the reputation of the new Aerocet floats as being "slippery" and built without the tradition "drag" associated with aluminum rivet construction, and concluding with his findings, the entire production is very professional.

    First, Bob takes two identical Cessna 182's and takes them through some ground tests that include doing static thrust tests, ground acceleration tests and weight tests on both airplanes to prove that both 182's are as identical as possible and no one aircraft had an inherent advantage from the start. To keep things equal, the Wipaire equipped aircraft even had lead added to the passenger compartment to account for a 15 pound difference in weight, after taking into account the two pilots weight differences. To make sure things were on the level, pilots were switched from the Aerocet aircraft to the Wipaire airplane throughout the testing itself. In the final ground test, both airplanes are filmed, side by side, accelerating down the runway in, what best can be described as a photo finish to prove their similarity.

    Once the observer is assured all is well, the airplanes are taken to a lake off the Mississippi River and, with wing dams installed to prevent lift, are run against one another in high speed taxi tests to see which set of floats is the most slippery in real world flying. The result showed the Wipaire equipped aircraft to be about 4 knots faster in multiple tests. Through a set of computations that reminded me of college math class, the variables were eliminated and the end result was that the Wipaire floats were indeed 8% less held back by he water resistance over their bottom surface areas.

    With that the aircrafts were then set side by side in the water for takeoff tests. In each case the Wipaire floats were airborne first, even with pilots switching aircraft. This was followed by an in-flight speed comparison that once again showed the Wipaire aluminum floats to be faster in the air, by a slight amount. A segment even covers the Aerocet team being beaten by the Wipaire team in Greenville in 2005 in a head to head competition.

    Bob takes the viewer through an in depth discussion of "myths" about aluminum floats construction. The old floats, he readily admits were prone to rivet leaks, and seam problems due to the compression and wearing out of the old seam "tape" that was used in the industry. The Wipaire floats are shown to use a new sealant process and Bob even goes so far as to remove the rivets from a section and try to separate the two pieces only to proclaim, "I bet you could fly these floats with just the sealant holding the bonded pieces together."

    Once back in the shop you are then taken on a comparison of weight differences by hoisting the two sets, complete with attachment points and hardware. The Wip's are about 80 pounds lighter and, as Bob points out, "That is before the fiberglass absorbs the expected 15 pounds or so of water after being exposed to use."

    The landing gear on the two ampibs were compared and even for the uninitiated the Wipaire design appears to be light years ahead of the Aerocet models. The Aerocet floats, as demonstrated both on the ground and in flight, will allow the main wheels to go "down and locked" in the event of a hydraulic failure in flight. At first glance you may think that is not a bad thing until you realize that the nose wheel on the Aerocet stays "UP AND LOCKED". A classic situation of being between the "devil and the deep". On the other hand, the Wipaire units are locked in both the up and down positions and should a hydraulic failure occur a normal water landing is all that is required to see repairs.

    Perhaps the most tantalizing part of the DVD is when Wipaire demonstrated, with what appeared to be a 5 pound hammer, what a good shot at a set of Wipaire floats would do for damage. The intent was to simulate hitting a rock or log while under power. The results were minor cosmetic damage. All primed up to see the same treatment on the Fiberglass floats and expecting to see the fiberglass strands fly around, Bob settled for showing what damage had already occurred by just beaching the fiberglass floats. Too bad, I was hoping for a real shattering experience.

    In the end, this DVD is well produced and even though I have been around float planes for more years that I care to recall, I found this DVD educational, professional, and as an added bonus, an inside look at the people of Wipaire. Even if floats are not on your immediate radar to buy, this is as good an instructional DVD as you will find on float construction."

  38. #38

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    I stopped by after reading this Crash, and they're 2200's not 2300's. The actual displacement is 2230 # in fresh water. They also aren't approved yet, it's in the works and they expect the approval soon. With the rigging, the weight is 265#.

    One thing I really don't like is that you can't get into a compartment without taking out lots of little screws. With the Edos and the compartment covers, all you have is one screw and it can be turned with just about anything from a quarter to a screw driver.

  39. #39
    DW's Avatar
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    I just wonder how a set of aerocets are going to hold up after 30 years, there's a lot of EDOs and others that old still floating around out there, pretty good track record for aluminum. "there sure pretty though."
    DW

    PS that duck poo may clean off easier

  40. #40
    StewartB
    Guest
    I remember walking through the Airman's show several years ago with Wes Landes and coming upon Aerocet's display. Wes commented about how good the quality of the construction was and that the float business would never be the same because of the superiority of composites. Not many guys know as much about composites as Wes. If you look at the 185 and 206 float market in the past 10 years Aerocet has kicked everyone's rear, and that's with floats that cost over $30K. EDO 2960s are now dime-a-dozen, a fact which suits me.

    Whether Aerocet's Cub floats take the market or not will be less predictable. Cub owners are divided between guys with unlimited budgets and guys on shoestring budgets. I doubt we'll see EDO 2000s being dumped in favor of new Aerocets on most planes. Besides, the unlimited budget camp seems to like Wip amphibs. Until Aerocet makes an amphib they may not attract the money boys in the numbers they'd hope. Time will tell.

    Stewart

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