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Thread: First plane Citabria or Pacer?

  1. #41

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  2. #42

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    Attempting to take off after the engine quit(twice) and not understanding why is gutsy.
    pete

  3. #43
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Trapper...

    Glad things are working out for you! 600' at altitude in a citab is not bad at all!

    About taking off with an engine not performing...

    Do you store this in a heated hanger? had the temp gone up and down to create some moisture?

    The rough terrain causing engine trouble sounds more like water/ice in the fuel system than carb ice.. Get the fuel and fuel system above freezing and start draining some fuel. shake the plane and drain some more to be sure you have it; also drain the carb!

    If you can not hanger the bird, put fuel in jerry cans and store them inside over night to warm up, pour through a water block funnel. You do not have long this way, but I have cleaned a fuel system out this way in a desperate situation.

    Now for your weekly instructor lesson: if she is not running up properly, it is a good time to shut it down and find the problem!!!!! Being five feet in the air over the end of a bush strip is not a good time to have an engine cough (been there done that don't want to again)

    The world of bush flying is as unforgiving as it is rewarding. Impatients, inattention to detail, and ignoring signs of bad things happening can turn your citabria into a pile of junk, and you into a statistic...

    So that said, learn from your mistakes... and for reinforcment, please read Flip Flop's thread: you all be carefull out there...
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  4. #44
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    What does a Citabria weigh empty?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  5. #45
    Widebody's Avatar
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  6. #46

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    I thought there might be water in the fuel also. I'm going to drain everything to make sure it's clean. I filter all my fuel( water/particulates) and the plane is in an unheated hangar so I didn't think water would be a problem. You guys are right about not taking off if the plane isn't running good. The area I was taking off on was flat as far as you could see so I wasn't to worried about having to land without an engine. I guess I should of clarified that. No way would I have tried to take off in a tight spot without a properly running engine.

    My citabria weighs 1200lbs.

  7. #47
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Even in an unheated hanger the temp. changes can cause condensation in the tanks. It does not take much to cause a burp.

    Think about what happens 15 minutes after takeoff if water goes into the carb and kills the engine?

    Even if all appears to be good, that one little known problem can become a catastrophe in a heartbeat... enough lecture

    You can not drain the water out until you get it above freezing. Frost, even in the fuel lines going through the cockpit, can become the bane of a pilots existence.

    Find a way to warm the bird up for long enough to melt ice out of the tanks, (over night is good), then drain it. Again, drain the carb also just for insurance.

    Widebody: a pacer can have the same trouble as the citab in cold weather... so don't try and tell a guy that is actually flying he has the wrong plane. He is another guy that may help fight all the anti aviation folks we have many threads about.. (try the TSA thread for instance)


    Trapper, keep on keeping on in a SAFE way.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  8. #48
    Widebody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58
    Widebody: a pacer can have the same trouble as the citab in cold weather... so don't try and tell a guy that is actually flying he has the wrong plane. He is another guy that may help fight all the anti aviation folks we have many threads about.. (try the TSA thread for instance)
    I thought this thread was a question on what plane to buy, and asked by a guy who said he was new to flying. I simply gave my opinion on which one I'd buy and that I felt he'd be a better pilot after flying the pacer.

    Never read the other posts, so I didn't know that a smart guy like yourself had everything handled here

    Brad

  9. #49
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I still like the Pacer to Brad. 1056 empty with a 2000 lb. gross weight and room for everything. Do all the Citabria's have a 1650 lb gross weight?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  10. #50
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    The 7GCBC can be made to fly almost as slow as a PA-18. I had a Champion 7GCB (same wing as a 7GCBC) on which I installed a set of Ferguson droop tips. I spliced new wood to the spar to eliminate the taper and extend the full height to the tip. Then I made a new full sized rib out of plywood which was attached to the tip. The droop tips were then attached to the new wood tip rib. For this I received a field approval from my friendly FAA guy. In addition I also used a 1A175GM8046 prop and 8:50 tires. The performance increase was tremendous. The aileron response was much better. The Aeronca sloppy aileron response was gone. I was once chasing a military Huey, (statute of limitations is long expired), they were unable to out slow fly me at altitude. I had a lot of short field fun with that plane on floats, Wheels and skis.
    N1PA

  11. #51
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Widebody
    I felt he'd be a better pilot after flying the pacer.


    Brad
    Brad, I can agree with you here!

    I thought you were referring to his problem of power, and suggesting that piper had this solved on the Pacer.

    No insult intended, sorry to poke at you!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  12. #52

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    Trapperty, you had enquired about source for 7GCBC gear bolts. It depends: Is this the flat steel springs (Steve Wittman/Cessna) undercarriage, or the oleo-strut "no-bounce" with fabric covered vee's?

    The no-bounce should be standard AN hardware, and as I recall bronze bushings. You folks who actually KNOW what they're talking about jump in here.

    The flat steel undercarriage, which started c.a. 1966?? has three different gear-bolt attachment variants. Talking about the attach at the lower longeron, not the 'tongue' up in the gear box, which should also be carefully inspected.

    The first variant was a bent piece of threaded steel rod. Cheap, easy, poor design, prone to cracking. Had two of 'em break on me on Scouts (same design, just taller, stiffer gear), right at the bends, which is a stress-riser point.

    The second variant was from Champion, which was a bent-U forging, with standard nuts. Only had ONE of them break on me. The third is the one from Univair, which uses a piece of flat barstock, and high-grade MS bolts and nuts. NEVER had one of those break on me. I don't know what ACA is now using on their new ones. Worth contacting them.

    The breaks each felt like a light tap on my heel. Caught the first one on the next preflight. Caught the second one on the postflight, and caught the third one on landing rollout, after the light "tap" on my heel resting on floorboards, remembering what it felt like.

    The thing that saved my butt on all three was the previously installed steel rod "cage", which prevented the main gear from rotating aft much. None of these were heavy landings, but there was some moderately rough ground on the principle field, and high landing cycles per hour.

    And I DID once have a main gear leg break just outboard of the longeron, which spoiled my whole day, not to mention that wing, the prop, and an engine teardown...

    NDT proved a crack at the radius just outboard of lower longeron, disguised under dark colour paint; due to previous "abusive grinding", not reflected in logbooks. Tip o' the day: If you've got spring steel undercarriage, paint it WHITE! And preflight like it was a 100 Hour inspection, especially main and aft undercarriage.

    Some of the high-volume Canadian operators keep an entire spare set of gear legs on hand, and send them off for NDT.

    The more common trouble spot is cracks at the wheel attach points, so check that carefully, too, eh?

    Looks like you're on the right track, doing it right, and asking the right questions on the right forum. All the best!

    Thanks, eh? cubscout

  13. #53

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    Cubscout thanks for the advice. I ordered the gear bolts at Aircraft Spruce. Kinda pricey, with the hardware for them they cost around $400!

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