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Thread: New C180 Owner - Few Questions

  1. #1

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    New C180 Owner - Few Questions

    Hi,
    I recently purchased a 1977 C180K in the UK and flew it home to Ireland. I think it complements the J3-90 on floats nicely. I'm deleighted with the plane and its performance. It has 1460TTAF and 5 TTE and 5 on the prop too so its quite low time! I now need to get to grips with a few of the Technical bits with my mechanic.

    Elevator Bushes - There is a bit of play in the horizontal stab - and I'd like to rebush same and inspect. Can anyone tell me the part number and advise on the prices and part needed. I hear the PPonk is a good option but am open to opinions. Also I want to do the elevator screw jack. Whats involved here?

    Tank Seals - Where can I get proper tank seals for the cessna caps, or better again is there an improved fuel cap that wont let water in if I park her out a night or two? Again a source and a part number would be brilliant

    Vacuam Pump - The machine is only show 3ish inches of suction at 23/2300. The pump was changed not long before I bought it but the machine didnt fly much with its previous owner. Can I just change the hoses/filter and expect more suction, or do I need to bite he bullet on do the pump too? Again a part number and a source would help greatly.

    Fuel Dipstick - I 'd love to know if there is a source for a good reliable dipstick for the C180K. My gauages need attention and the old reliable would be very important to me early on to get used to the machine, and its fuel burn etc.

    Really appreciate the help, and I want to get G-BETG into top shape and sure she'll appreciate the TLC too.

    Many Thanks

    Will Flood
    G-BETG

    GSM + 353 87 2218706

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    pzinck's Avatar
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    William there are several skywagon and 180/185 guys here.The skywagon site josh pointed out is good as well.I think as much info can be gained here though.very low time to have play in your bushings.I have heard that some people use the 182 fuel hawk and it is quite close for the 180/185 as far as fuel quantity measurement.I would definitely double check it's accuracy though. www.skygeek.com/c-182-43-5.html

  4. #4
    Crash's Avatar
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    Re: New C180 Owner - Few Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by irishj3seaplane
    Hi,

    Elevator Bushes - There is a bit of play in the horizontal stab - and I'd like to rebush same and inspect. Can anyone tell me the part number and advise on the prices and part needed. I hear the PPonk is a good option but am open to opinions. Also I want to do the elevator screw jack. Whats involved here?

    Tank Seals - Where can I get proper tank seals for the cessna caps, or better again is there an improved fuel cap that wont let water in if I park her out a night or two? Again a source and a part number would be brilliant

    Vacuam Pump - The machine is only show 3ish inches of suction at 23/2300. The pump was changed not long before I bought it but the machine didnt fly much with its previous owner. Can I just change the hoses/filter and expect more suction, or do I need to bite he bullet on do the pump too? Again a part number and a source would help greatly.

    Fuel Dipstick - I 'd love to know if there is a source for a good reliable dipstick for the C180K. My gauages need attention and the old reliable would be very important to me early on to get used to the machine, and its fuel burn etc.

    Really appreciate the help, and I want to get G-BETG into top shape and sure she'll appreciate the TLC too.

    Many Thanks

    Will Flood
    G-BETG

    GSM + 353 87 2218706
    1) Surprised with so few hours on it, that it needs new bushings. Pponk would be my choice for a longer lasting bushing.

    2) Monarch caps are the way to go. They are sold through Hartwig fuel cell repair.

    http://www.monarchcaps.com/

    3) Vacuum....you either have it or you don't. Check it at the pump. If you have it then check all hoses and regulator for leaks or problems. If you don't have it, replace the pump.

    4) Fuel level...Fly the plane with 1/2 tank on one side and very low tank on the other. Run on the low tank until engine quits while rocking plane left and right in air. Switch to the 1/2 tank and fly back to your airport and fuel pump. With a painters stirring stick, fill the tank in 1/4 tank increments. Stop, dip and mark the stick with a permanent marker at each 1/4 full increment. Make several sticks from the master you just made. Keep two in the plane so you have a fresh dry one for each tank. This is the best fuel gauage for a C-180.

    Take care.

    Crash

  5. #5
    180Marty's Avatar
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    I have Monarch caps on my 1954 model that I put on in about 1990. I'm very happy with them but I see some guys on the 180/185 forum that say they leak----not sure what's going on there.

  6. #6
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I'd concur with everything Crash recommended.

    Never had any problems with Monarch caps on any of several airplanes so equipped. Had LOTS of leaks with the originals.

    MTV

  7. #7
    CubLite's Avatar
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    If the Monarch fuel caps leak, check their o-rings. Mine started leaking when the tank was full and after close inspection saw that there was a small crack in the o-ring. Replaced them and it fixed the leak.

    Pat

  8. #8
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    There should be a vacuum regulator in the system. Sounds like it might not have been adjusted properly when the vacuum pump was installed. It is nothing more than a pop off valve. There is a locking ear that gets bent out of the way and you turn the knob to adjust the vacuum. I would visually check everything first to verify there is no other problem.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  9. #9
    StewartB
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    Will,

    I've never had to deal with my jackscrews or anything else in the tail. Same for the vacuum pump.

    For your fuel caps, do you have raised caps or flush? Cessna has a service kit (SK-182-85) to convert flush caps to raised. My J model has the kit on the inboard fillers with stock caps and the outboard fillers are still the flush type. I park outside and get no leakage. Never have. Don't assume yours leak because somebody told you they would. If you need gaskets Atlee Dodge has them.

    For a fuel stick, I drain all usable fuel through the gascolater and refill 5 gallons at a time marking the levels on the stick. I do so with big tires, small tires, and floats. All my sticks are different, particularly at low fuel levels. My gages are pinned on empty while I have 10 gallons in each tank. The only way I can get a reading on the gage at that level is to rock the wings. In flight, if I can't bounce the gages.....it's time to land! Don't trust a purchased stick. Make one that you know is accurate.

    Stewart

  10. #10

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    I have a question about 180's.

    I recently flew a 1956 C-180. It had a much better over the nose visibility than I thought it would be. I'm told the earlier models have a lower height instrument panel. I was wondering what year did the instrument panel change to the higher version? I'm wondering specifically about the years 1958 and 1959.

    Thanks!

    Steve

  11. #11
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Will, I'd like to add a few things.

    I like the homemade dip stick method as Crash described.

    On the 'elevator bushes'. Put new bearings in the elev. hinges if they have play. But I think you're talking horizontal stabilizer. If your stab is loose, don't assume simply that the bushings are worn. If the stab hinge bolts are not capturing the bushing tightly, the bolts will wallow out the holes in the sheetmetal. (Some mechanics think those bolts need to rotate, not true). Also, there is a rivet that is often sheared in that area and contributes to a loose stab. It is the rivet directly behind the stab hinge bolt. If it is sheared, (cracked paint visible and some rivet 'smoke' showing) what forms the stab hinge bolt brakcet will be cantilevered on the end of the tailcone stiffening extrusion, allowing noticable movement. The best way to replace that rivet is to remove the tailfeathers and get in there with the right size bucking bar after removing the inboard hinge bracket for access.

    When you do your jackscrews I recommend that you install the bottom tailcone access panel that is a Cessna Service Kit. This will allow jackscrew access for maintenance and inspection without removal of the rudder, vertical fin, elevators, and stab. New bearings and sprockets should go in while you have the screws disassembled. A new chain is a wonderful thing also, and don't forget to replace the roll pins in the trim control wheel shaft as they are often worn or sheared due to stiff jackscrews. Now would be a good time for a new wheel 'ratchet', as smooth and free jacscrews will 're-trim' if the ratchet is not strong.

    Monarch fuel filler adapters and caps highly recommended!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Also any part that is available for a Cessna that is from McFarlane is usually a good value for a better product. Buy McFarlane!

    Folks have covered the rest. Good Luck. DAVE


  12. #12

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    Guys thanks for the help....

    Been reading a good bit about these leaky monarch fuel caps on skywagons dot og. Can anyone tell us a source for new tank seals for the C180k original flush caps as a short term measure? Atlee Dodge dont have them....

    Also I have a switch along the electrical row placarded "LRT PUMP" anyone tell us what thats for???

    Thanks

    William

  13. #13
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Will, those flush caps were redesigned by Cessna for the reason that they were a water trap and a liability. There are multiple sets of them around in trash bins that wise owners have discarded.

    I'm not on the Skywagon site, but am not taking the Monarch cap leaking issue as gospel, as I have seen and maintained many Monarch-equipped Cessnas and have yet to see a leaker............this is the internet, so I guess advice is worth what you pay for it either way.

    "LRT"........long range tank????

    Some of the early 180's were equipped with an "oil dilution" system that added gasoline to the engine oil to dilute it for very cold start-ups, many pilots aren't aware of....but I don't see "LRT" meaning "oil dilution".

    Did you find a solution to your 'elevator bushes' or loose stabilizer issue?

    Anyone else have a guess on LRT? DAVE

  14. #14
    180Marty's Avatar
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    The more I think about the guys complaining about Monarch fuel caps the more I wonder also. The spring loaded flapper mounted down in the filler a ways will hold fuel when I pull my Mr Funnel up a little and shake a little more fuel from the funnel sump. If the flapper will keep fuel from going in it should keep it from coming out also.

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    You definitely posed your question in the right spot. I had a similar problem and was approaching it with some trepidation, so I asked here. Got exactly what I needed.

    We had a loose horizontal stabilizer. Took the entire thing apart, including tailwheel, and started over. I no longer remember the exact particulars, but the two hardest things were re-installing the elevators/rudder, and the tailwheel bushings.

    The thing that saved us was oversize NAS bolts - that, plus my 11" Sheldon lathe made some oversize eccentric bushings for the jackscrews. It was a very satisfying experience. One of our participants got me going by telling me how he did it. You might be able to do a search and find that thread; it is at least two years old.

    A Cub and a 180 - the optimum! I am sub-optimum with a Cub and a Decathlon, but then I don't have a very big family either, and love to practice inverted flight. Good luck!

  16. #16
    gdrean's Avatar
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    I also don't understand the Monarch fuel caps leaking story. I have had mine on my C-206 for over 15 years and never a drop. (had cups of water with the old Cessna flush killer caps). The caps have retainer chains for the caps and the flapper valve to keep most of the fuel in if/when you forget to replace the cap after fueling. Had one o-ring go bad and Monarch replaced both for no charge. I assume the new owners are as customer service oriented.


    Gary
    GDrean

  17. #17

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    leaky thanks

    I have a 55 C-180j with what seems to be a leak on the well of the thank filler I have good caps I think but when I top off and taxi to the hangar the well is filled to the top with fuel is this a common leak with an easy fix or do I need to re do something up there mbe new bladders $$$ I would ask the folks at skywaggons .org but they charge for the info. what say you. thanks James

  18. #18
    180Marty's Avatar
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    Sounds like your gaskets are bad or screws loose between the filler assembly and the bladder. It's the inner circle of screws surrounding the filler cap. If fuel can come out, water can go in.

  19. #19

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    leaks

    if that's the case mbe I don't hafta fill up as often
    I'll check that thanks

  20. #20

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    A little off topic, but does anyone know if the early 182's 50's models had the 180 gearbox pre-installed?

  21. #21

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    Josh- Heard that one a few times but there never was. I hear the same thing about early 172's all the time. The bulkheads are the same with holes but you will not find any gear attach points.

  22. #22

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    Price difference

    I have been following the prices of 180's and
    Piper Cubs do you realize they'r the same price

  23. #23
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh
    A little off topic, but does anyone know if the early 182's 50's models had the 180 gearbox pre-installed?
    up 'til '56 the bulkheads were drilled, but Cessna didn't put the 'boxes' in.

    ...so 'they' say.

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    Thanks, must be some Urban Legend

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