Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Rigging both ailerons down

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Maynard,MA
    Posts
    1,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Rigging both ailerons down

    I did a search on the subject but only came up with bits and pieces of info.

    If there is a thread dedicated to it I would appreciate help in locating it.

    I'd like to know if it is worth doing on a cub without flaps.
    Thanks,Bill

  2. #2
    Widebody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    ND/AZ
    Posts
    747
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bill,

    I've got down aileron rigged into my cub that has flaps, I had more to start with but it's around a 1/2" now.
    It will certainly help in takeoff & landing on cubs without flaps, although I don't have the data to show how much.
    The more down aileron you put in though, the more speed in cruise you lose, another trade off as usual.

    Brad

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Maynard,MA
    Posts
    1,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Rigging both ailerons down

    Thanks Brad
    I had read about it being done and thought it might be worth trying.I'd give up a little speed(it's TOO fast anyway ) If it made a worthwhile difference in take-off and landing.If nothing else I'll learn something.

    If anyone else has input I would be interested in hearing it.

    Bill

  4. #4
    Tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Petersburgh, NY
    Posts
    3,463
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bill, A friend in Florida bought a Legend Cub and the first thing he did was to take out the dihedral. He told me it was a little faster and a little slower. He's a aerobatic guy so who knows.

    Tim

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Maynard,MA
    Posts
    1,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Rigging both ailerons down

    Thanks Tim

    I was aware that Legend rigged their planes with more dihedral but did not think about it having any adverse effects.I foresee some methodical test sessions coming.I love doing this stuff.
    Bill

  6. #6
    JP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Big Woods of Maine
    Posts
    3,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    I rig down. It improves takeoff and landing performance at a slight cost to cruise.

    As for dihedral, I have a weensy bit more than factory setting because it rides better in the bumps that way.

    Willyb, experiment away.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  7. #7
    pushhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ask the dispatcher
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm surprised none of the other oldies here have jumped in with the story of Hoot Gibson, the only guy ever to do a Mach 1 slow roll in a 727. Seems there was a theory floating around Eastern AL(I think) that a 727 was just a tad faster in cruise with a couple of degrees of flaps out. Trouble is, any flap deployment on the 7 2 also put the LEDs (slats) out. Answer was to pull the LED circuit breaker before bumping thr flaps out 3-5 degrees. One day over middle America, Hoot decided to try it while the FE was in the lav. Upon returning to his sideways seat, the observant 2 striper noticed the offending circuit breaker out, and to be helpful, thumbed it back in. Imagine the result. Slats come out at about triple the max VFE. (There's a reason there ain't no MFE.) One slat quits flying formation with the rest of the aluminum causing a right smart bit of asymmetrical lift. Airplane rolls inverted, nose drops a lot, and soon our intrepid test pilot breaks Mach 1 in an uncontrollable roll. Since there aint no, "Oh a slat tore off" checklist, Hoot improvises and dumps the gear to slow down while yelling at the FO to help him pull out of the dive. The FO couldn't hear him, probably because he was screaming too loudly and due to the sounds of rending metal as gear doors and other stuff joined the slat in freefall :P It did slow down, but not until bending the airframe beyond repair and putting more dihedral in the wings than Cubcrafters ever imagined. Our quick thinking hero was rewarded by the airline with a vacation. The FAA response was to mandate the installation of overspeed horns, which until recently went, "HOOT, HOOT, PULL UP!" rather than "WHOOP WHOOP, PULL UP!"

  8. #8
    Widebody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    ND/AZ
    Posts
    747
    Post Thanks / Like
    You're sure entertaining Pushhard, if you ever get to ND let me know, I'm buying . You and CD sure have a way of telling stories.
    A night in the Can-Dak Lounge would only add to the entertainment .

    Brad

  9. #9
    JP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Big Woods of Maine
    Posts
    3,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    GREAT STORY! My faith in aviation has been totally reaffirmed! May the like of a Hoot never leave our midst. :P
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  10. #10
    pushhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ask the dispatcher
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    OK, Let's see. ND in January. I can't find an emoticon with frostbite.
    Anyway, you're on, if Dreamer will let me out of the hangar. I do a fair amount of coaching for the UND aerobatic team and have heard all the stories of ND taverns. I guess when it's -40 out, there ain't much else to do but and preheat your airplanes and girlfriends Do I need a passport? or translator?Probably not since English is the official language of drinking, even in Canada, eh?

  11. #11
    Jerry Burr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Sedro Woolley, Washington.
    Posts
    699
    Post Thanks / Like

    Aileron droop

    I did some aileron tests to find an answer to the droop situation. I rigged my droop system so I could raise or lower my ailerons in cruise 1" at the trailing edge. That's 1" above normal to 1" below normal 1/8 " at a time. 3/8" down was the best compromise. On the J-3 if your carry through aileron cable is exposed make a small cable tension er out of a piece of coat hanger and a small eye bolt. Rig your ailerons a bit loose for normal use. When you want flaps crank down on that shortening device. It will lower your ailerons a little more than a 1/2". Makes them stiff, but loosen them after you land. Worked for me for years. Jerry B.

  12. #12
    Wayne Mackey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miles City Montana 406 232 1370
    Posts
    390
    Post Thanks / Like

    what

    Now Jerry,
    If I can't use a coat hanger for a welding rod you sure can't use them
    for the ailerons.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mt.
    Posts
    1,291
    Post Thanks / Like

    coathangars

    If it wasn't for melted coat hangars half the ag planes in the south would be out of service.
    Dave

  14. #14
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    5,358
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aileron droop

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Burr
    Worked for me for years. Jerry B.
    "J-3 flaps", as I have heard them called. D

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    1,621
    Post Thanks / Like
    I also rig the J3 ailerons 3/8 inch down.
    JimC

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    749
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jrussell
    May the like of a Hoot never leave our midst. :P
    Or, you might take the stance that a guy who lost control a plane full of people (but was fortunate enough to regain control) by using a made up unauthorized procedure that took advantage of a questionable (likely fictional) speed increase maybe needed a little time off to think about things.

    Your hero status for recovering from an unusual situation is revoked if you put the plane there by doing something you weren't supposed to do.

  17. #17
    clouds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Litchfield, CT
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like

    Hoot's 727

    There is a lot of BS around about Hoot's 727 incident, most of which is a good bar yarn. One slat on one side inexplicably extended in cruise. The crew did not extend the flaps, there was no change in dihedral, the fuselage was not bent, and the plane was not significantly damaged. It was used in training for years afterward and flew just fine. Sorry, but the "whoop-whoop-pull-up" system also had nothing to do with this incident, and overspeed warnings were around for a dozen years before this happened. Hoot did a great job and never lost a penny over this.

    Never mess up a good story with the facts!

  18. #18
    JP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Big Woods of Maine
    Posts
    3,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by aalexander
    Quote Originally Posted by jrussell
    May the like of a Hoot never leave our midst. :P
    Or, you might take the stance that a guy who lost control a plane full of people (but was fortunate enough to regain control) by using a made up unauthorized procedure that took advantage of a questionable (likely fictional) speed increase maybe needed a little time off to think about things.

    Your hero status for recovering from an unusual situation is revoked if you put the plane there by doing something you weren't supposed to do.
    True. But my remarks were meant a bit more globally, particularly since the oft repeated story bears little resemblance to the actual event. Hoot is the real thing, however, and it's always a pleasure to see him speak.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  19. #19
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
    Posts
    3,271
    Post Thanks / Like
    Heheh - if somebody said that about me, my feelings would be hurt - that they didn't want to hear me speak - - -
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    749
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 12 Geezer
    Heheh - if somebody said that about me, my feelings would be hurt - that they didn't want to hear me speak - - -
    Lol, had to read that on a couple of times before it finally sunk in.

  21. #21
    JP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Big Woods of Maine
    Posts
    3,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 12 Geezer
    Heheh - if somebody said that about me, my feelings would be hurt - that they didn't want to hear me speak - - -
    I suppose we could watch him speak, too...
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  22. #22
    Aviator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Canada (Legally)
    Posts
    1,398
    Post Thanks / Like
    An easy way to check is to do what you do to get more lift in a tight spot. Grab the balance cable over your head, pull on it and note any change. It will lower both ailerons. The looser the cables, the more aileron droop.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Maynard,MA
    Posts
    1,204
    Post Thanks / Like
    I rigged mine as much as 5/8 down measured at the inboard trailing edge.At this measurement it required nearly full nose up trim for level flight cruise.It did make a significant difference in take off ground run.Currently set back to neutral for now.

    Bill

Similar Threads

  1. 12 ailerons on 18
    By S2D in forum Modifications
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-02-2007, 08:54 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •