Ground Loop Survey
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oldbaldguy
Registered User
Also possible that the other 2% are helicopter pilots.
I'm still in the Never category but my tailwheel career is still in it's infancy.Maybe there should be a Not Yet category.Reading all these posts I may learn enough to delay my first for a while.I was with a friend in his 170 and got to experience a ground loop on landing.No damage but pretty exciting. :lol: Bill
Jerry Gaston
Registered User
Bozeman, Montana
I wish you didn't ask but now that you did ... Yes with damage. Setting down on a county road I ran smack into a dust devil. Put me into a ditch broke the left wing collapsed the gear etc. Now that I talk about it i get heart burn. 
Laz
FRIEND
Girdwood, AK.
Once, in a Luscombe 8E on skis. I was running out of room on a icy, downhill strip with a tremendous (!) berm (and tall trees) at the end. (What do you mean there's no brakes!). Did an intentional ground loop (at about 20 MPH) and ended up with the tail at the base of the berm! I must have done the right thing with the ailerons as it didn't lift a wing or tuck the gear under. I cleaned my shorts and promised to heaven on high, I would never do that again. I think I used up all my 9 lives with that one!
Laz
Laz
NZ Cub Driver
Registered User
New Zealand
Hey Guys,
Well as they say there are those that have, and those that will. I have just been added to the those that have.
I was doing a bit of glider towing. I had completed 2 tows that morning, not a problem at all. On the 3rd landing the Cub suddenly veered right and started making a screeching sound. I put in full left rudder and some brake which seemed to control it. I had wheeled it on so I now had to bring the tail down, as I was slowing down I finally worked out that my right brake was stuck on. The left brake was not as effective as the right brake due to a lack of brake fluid, plus the wind was coming from the right. Therefore as I slowed down, you guessed it! The Cub slowly started to veer right. I pulled the mixture (the engine and prop had just been inspected so I didn't want to risk damaging them) and let the aircraft slowly complete a ground loop. It ended up 200 degrees from original heading, with no damage. Luckily full rudder and left brake meant that I could hold it straight until I slowed down to around 10mph. Engineers found a sticky piston to be the fault.
So there you go, a ground loop that actually wasn't my fault, not often you can say that.
Well as they say there are those that have, and those that will. I have just been added to the those that have.
I was doing a bit of glider towing. I had completed 2 tows that morning, not a problem at all. On the 3rd landing the Cub suddenly veered right and started making a screeching sound. I put in full left rudder and some brake which seemed to control it. I had wheeled it on so I now had to bring the tail down, as I was slowing down I finally worked out that my right brake was stuck on. The left brake was not as effective as the right brake due to a lack of brake fluid, plus the wind was coming from the right. Therefore as I slowed down, you guessed it! The Cub slowly started to veer right. I pulled the mixture (the engine and prop had just been inspected so I didn't want to risk damaging them) and let the aircraft slowly complete a ground loop. It ended up 200 degrees from original heading, with no damage. Luckily full rudder and left brake meant that I could hold it straight until I slowed down to around 10mph. Engineers found a sticky piston to be the fault.
So there you go, a ground loop that actually wasn't my fault, not often you can say that.
I was an A&P before I flew a tailwheel, so I had seen a number of damaged planes from groundloops. When I bought my first tailwheel plane (a C-170), I told myself it was not going to happen to me. I've made some pretty ugly landings, but I will not ever let that tail come around!
When I teach in a taildragger, there's lots of (full runway length) high and low speed taxiing, lots of distractions presented, lots of crosswinds, and you need to do real nice wheel landings before I cut you loose.
Also, many people assume it only happens on landing. Well, that's not the case, and when it happens on takeoff, you've just added full power, and all that energy makes the whole thing occur more quickly and often with more damage.
When I teach in a taildragger, there's lots of (full runway length) high and low speed taxiing, lots of distractions presented, lots of crosswinds, and you need to do real nice wheel landings before I cut you loose.
Also, many people assume it only happens on landing. Well, that's not the case, and when it happens on takeoff, you've just added full power, and all that energy makes the whole thing occur more quickly and often with more damage.
I teach both 3-point and wheel landings, but in my opinion, a wheel landing requires more skill and feel for the plane.
The majority of my students have felt that the wheel landing gives them more positive control of the aircraft in crosswinds or gusty conditions. (I also believe this, but I try not to force my opinion on people...)
The majority of my students have felt that the wheel landing gives them more positive control of the aircraft in crosswinds or gusty conditions. (I also believe this, but I try not to force my opinion on people...)
Hi Folks,
I've been recently flying a Super Cub (180 HP) at work performing engine break-ins. I'm still a relatively low time tail dragger pilot but I've been landing mainly with 3 pointers; if there are any winds I've been keeping the tail up just a little to ensure I had directional control, then I would let the tail gently settle. I do have the luxury of a nice long and wide runway so if I got into any trouble I have "room." So far so good.
On landings, I have always found that if you're stable in your approach, decent rate and airspeed, the touch down should all work out providing a wind gust don't appear. If I had any concerns I've also extended my downwind a bit so it gives me a longer final and time to get "stabilized."
My 2 cents.... 8)
I've been recently flying a Super Cub (180 HP) at work performing engine break-ins. I'm still a relatively low time tail dragger pilot but I've been landing mainly with 3 pointers; if there are any winds I've been keeping the tail up just a little to ensure I had directional control, then I would let the tail gently settle. I do have the luxury of a nice long and wide runway so if I got into any trouble I have "room." So far so good.
On landings, I have always found that if you're stable in your approach, decent rate and airspeed, the touch down should all work out providing a wind gust don't appear. If I had any concerns I've also extended my downwind a bit so it gives me a longer final and time to get "stabilized."
My 2 cents.... 8)
Jerry Gaston
Registered User
Bozeman, Montana
flyboyjoe forget the three point landings they don't do a thing for ya. Do a tail low wheel landing and you'll be just fine. 8)
I’ve never gone all the way around but came REAL close to disaster when I was teaching a 172 driver to fly my cub. The plane had 29 inch tires, and nearly put the wing in the dirt with full power applied. That was much more terrifying then the other times I’ve **allegedly** crashed.
Wouldn’t it be an interesting thread taking a poll on how many people have got their license pulled? I’m sure some fun stories could come from that!
For the FAA reading this: I still know nothing…
Lippy
Wouldn’t it be an interesting thread taking a poll on how many people have got their license pulled? I’m sure some fun stories could come from that!
For the FAA reading this: I still know nothing…
Lippy
meat n the seat
Registered User
Hey Joe, Glad you haven't done the deed yet. I have come close but not quite in my bellaca triple tail. Saving for a SC. Where in CO do you get to fly your SC? I'm in New Mexico just south of Durango, CO. Anyway have fun!...Pete
S
sam2
I let a very experienced( so he told me) pilot fly my champ with me in the back seat.
He took off and flew fine , but on landing( grass runway) he tried to steer with the brakes( what the heck), and it galloped down the runway sideways and finally went around.
I had just learned to fly and was young and foolish.
He took off and flew fine , but on landing( grass runway) he tried to steer with the brakes( what the heck), and it galloped down the runway sideways and finally went around.
I had just learned to fly and was young and foolish.
Pokette
Registered User
Chesterfield, Missouri
Weeeelllll I just did another one. A couple weeks back with a student. He flies an Ercoupe - no rudder. His plane is down for maintenance and wanted to fly something fun. This was his second or third flight with me. No flying for the past 6 months..... Soooo we flew around, had fun, came back for some landings. He struggled to use the rudder with me helping quite a bit. I wanted him to feel how the airplane needs to be kept straight even after all three wheels are on the ground and we are slowing down.... I let him feel a little too much we did the 270 thing at slow speed, no damage, and I worked like crazy to keep the wings level!
we did the 270 thing at slow speed, no damage, and I worked like crazy to keep the wings level!Mmmmm not yet, had a couple of moments when I got lazy and didn't have into wind aileron, had a wing lift and got messy but didn't get to close to going backwards,,,,just when I think this is easy ,whats the big deal I get a bit of a WAKE UP D##KHEAD !!!
King Brown
Registered User
Nova Scotia
There's nothing you can do in a ground loop. You're just along for the ride.
CubDriver218
Registered User
Minnesota
I haven't looped out yet.
When I was in the Navy I missed being able to go up with my Father anytime we wanted so I hung out at the airport and spotted a guy prepping his Citabria for a flight. I talked my way into the backseat for a ride with him. Once we were up he told me he was there to do his 3 landings to stay current. On our first landing he was pretty squirrely, but I didn't say anything and just held on as I hadn't flown in a while and it wasn't my airplane. On the second landing the rear wheel had to be out of the tracks of the mains and we were going around. I grabbed the controls gave some throttle and opposite rudder and by the grace of god got us back in the air. I felt bad for taking the controls and apologized, and he just looked back at me and said "Thank You" I haven't gone hitch hiking in an airplane since.
Learning to fly in a C-180 helped me tremendously in the cub. The 180 was a lot of machine and not the ideal airplane to learn in, as I almost looped it out several times on both take-off and landing.
If there is no saving it and you know you're going around putting the controls into the may help.
Your best bet to avoiding a ground loop is to always always always land into the wind!!
An important lesson I learned is that if you're ever flying a new to you tail wheel airplane, check the wings and make sure they are level. If the plane has been looped out in the past or has had landing gear alterations it could affect the way the airplane sits. If the attachment points aren't just perfect it could make one wing tip lower than the other. I almost found out the hard way that this can adversely affect ground handling and may be a culprit to a ground loop.
I may have to update this post after my Pitts aerobatic training in a few weeks.
When I was in the Navy I missed being able to go up with my Father anytime we wanted so I hung out at the airport and spotted a guy prepping his Citabria for a flight. I talked my way into the backseat for a ride with him. Once we were up he told me he was there to do his 3 landings to stay current. On our first landing he was pretty squirrely, but I didn't say anything and just held on as I hadn't flown in a while and it wasn't my airplane. On the second landing the rear wheel had to be out of the tracks of the mains and we were going around. I grabbed the controls gave some throttle and opposite rudder and by the grace of god got us back in the air. I felt bad for taking the controls and apologized, and he just looked back at me and said "Thank You" I haven't gone hitch hiking in an airplane since.
Learning to fly in a C-180 helped me tremendously in the cub. The 180 was a lot of machine and not the ideal airplane to learn in, as I almost looped it out several times on both take-off and landing.
If there is no saving it and you know you're going around putting the controls into the may help.
Your best bet to avoiding a ground loop is to always always always land into the wind!!
An important lesson I learned is that if you're ever flying a new to you tail wheel airplane, check the wings and make sure they are level. If the plane has been looped out in the past or has had landing gear alterations it could affect the way the airplane sits. If the attachment points aren't just perfect it could make one wing tip lower than the other. I almost found out the hard way that this can adversely affect ground handling and may be a culprit to a ground loop.
I may have to update this post after my Pitts aerobatic training in a few weeks.
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When I was doing my tailwheel training I let it get away from me just after touching down. Didn't groundloop but did end up running off the runway to the right. I was steering clear of the runway lights and the instructor was doing his own thing trying to correct. In the end, no lights were harmed nor was the plane broken. We called it a day after that.
