Phillips Oil Report

[Alex Clark]

For years I used straight weight oil. It worked great, but had to be changed for the rapidly changing weather conditions here..

Then I tried Aero-Shell 15-50, my oil burn went up and oil started to seep out all over the engine.

This year I tried Phillips 20-50 XC. So far I am very impressed. The engine (a C-90) was easy to hand start on cold mornings. There is NO SEEPING and I have only burned 1.5 quarts in 26 hours.
That is 26 hours of students pushing the throttle in every which direction.

So far so good.

[Josh]

Yea, I used Philips 25-60xc on T-6's and was a good oil, I used Aeroshell 100w on my Waco and is a good oil too, however when I used Philips 25-60 on the Waco it leaked and spit oil everywhere, I don't know why, its supposed to be a good oil for the W-670 but when I switched back to Aeroshell its stop leaking.....hhhmmmmm

[Speedo]

Josh:

I'm interested in your experience with the Phillips XC 25-60, because that's what we're using in the C-47 and Ju 52 I volunteer on. Their engines are pretty messy, but I always assumed that was because they're radials. I'll have to look into this some more.

Eric

[JP]

I'm using Phillips XC 20W-50 on my C-90-8. I've been using it for quite awhile with good results. It was recommended by an AP/IA friend with considerable experience in small continentals and cubs When we did the cylinders last month the inside of the engine was in superb shape. No trace of corrosion and no sludge. ECI recommended the same oil, so I'm sticking with it. Or rather, it is sticking with me...

[a3holerman]

I have always been interested in engine oil. Its technology has advanced so much in the last 20 or so years. I am a big fan of Philips. There is a local fleet operator of Cessna 402's and they have got their tbo up to like 2300hrs or more and they only use Philips 66.

[mvivion]

I've had good luck with Exxon Elite. Silly ass wrong size bottle necks, but other than that, good stuff.

I can introduce you to at least one air taxi operator that's run all its engines for years, Continentals and Turbo'd Lycs to tbo on Aeroshell 15-50 and wouldn't switch for the world.

Your mileage may vary.

I like the Exxon for the additive package, and the multi vis.

Go to their trailer during OSH, or Sun N Fun, order a year's supply then, at 20 % discount, and they'll ship free--yes, even to Alaska. One year, I had em ship six cases to AK.

MTV

[jnorris]

When I bought my Cessna 180 all those years ago, it had AeroShell 15w-50 in it. For some reason I can't remember, I ended up putting Phillips 20w-50 in it at an oil change. I have never switched back! With the Phillips oil the consumption was less than with the AeroShell, and the leakage was less too. Can't beat that!

So when I bough the C-90 Super Cub I immediately switched it to Phillips 20w-50. It works great in that engine too. I don't hesitate to recommend Phillips to anyone.

[a3holerman]

It still great oil but......Just in this mornings paper that fleet of some 40+ 402's mentioned in my earlier post had been grounded due to engine problems. Paper said something about counterweights...

[Hardtailjohn]

I've been recommending Phillips XC for years and haven't ever had anyone that complained. We ran it in our test cell and recommended it to our customers when I worked for the radial o/h outfit.
JH

[Alex Clark]

UPDATE:

Well I have run 50 hours on that oil and I am pretty happy with the results.

I did notice that I burned (or threw) NO oil for the first 12-15 hours. Then a little. Until about 25 hours when the consumption started to be noticeable. I went through 3 quarts from 25 hours to 50 hours.

I usually change oil every 25 hours, but wanted to see if this stuff would go longer.

Now that I have change it for new 20-50 XC, I will see if the pattern repeats.

[kase]

I think what makes Aeroshell 15-50 weep is the additive they use for the Lycoming camshafts.

[Steve Pierce]

My Dad talked to the Aeroshell engineers and they said that the semi-synthetic properties in their multi-viscosity oil are thinner than mineral based oils and tend to blow and leak more because they are thinner. He flew from Memphis, TN to Graham, TX after changing to 15w50. He had oil on his belly. He got mad, cleaned the belly, changed to Phillips 20w50 and after his trip back home his belly and engine have been dry and stayed that way. We ran Phillips 20w50 XC in a PW R985 in a Staggerwing and chased oil leaks immediately. Finally put the W120 back in and the oil leaks went away.

[Alex Clark]

Last year I talked with Aero-Shell twice after my engine started oozing oil all over the place with 15-50.

On the first call I acted like I was shopping for solvent qualities and the guy told me how wonderful the solvent qualities of 15-50 were going to be. It was going to loosen up all the old junk and clean my engine.

On the second contact, I informed him it was leaking past gaskets and blowing out the breather. I asked if this was due to the solvent qualities and then he told me that there were no solvent qualities and my engine must be bad.

So I stopped buying their products and have been happy since with Phillips or Exxon Elite. Dealing with liars bothers me...

[kase]

I had a guy give me a case of that Lycoming 16702 additive. I changed my oil and put in 7 qts of Phillips 20/50. Put in a bottle of the 16702 and with in 3 hours it was weeping out all over the place. Drained the oil. Put in 7 qts of Phillips 20/50 and it dried up instantly. Couldnt believe it. Took the rest of that 16702 and threw it in the garbage.

Aeroshell 15/50 is suppose to have LW16702 in it.

[mvivion]

Here's a question for you Phillips XC users:

Phillips and some manufacturers of engine components state that you can break in a new engine or cylinders with Phillips XC.

The TRADITIONAL break in oil was pure mineral oil, with no additives, no nothing, just plain mineral oil.

Years ago, when first confronted with the instructions on how to break in a new engine, our chief of maintenance explained to me that the reason we use mineral oil for break in is because it doesn't lubricate or clean the engine quite as well as the compounded (detergent) oils. The point being that, during break in, you WANT the engine to wear a little more than normal, to get a little hotter than normal, and a little poorer set of lubricating qualities will do that. I have heard this explanation from several other knowledgeable engine rebuilders, as well as a rep from at least one engine manufacturer.

If this is so, and I don't know that it is for a fact, but if so, does this imply that Phillips XC has poorer lubricating and cleansing properties than other compounded oils?

I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Phillips XC, I'm really curious about the logic of using this oil for break in, when the only other oil that anyone recommends for break in is plain mineral oil.

Any ACTUAL lubricant experts out there?

And, by the way, the school I work with uses Aeroshell 15-50 in everything, and this is NOT a kind environment to engines (primary training). Their engines regularly go well beyond TBO. And, they generally stay clean. But they start right after break in on aeroshell.

I still like the Exxon Elite, my own self.

MTV

[kase]

Why do you like Elite so much?

[Jerry Burr]

This may explain some of the differences.
Phillips 66 Type M Aviation Oils are designed for use in aviation engines where the operator prefers continued use of all-mineral type oil. It does not contain dispersant type additives. This oil can be used as break-in oil for newly overhauled engines when an oil of this type is recommended. Break-in is normally accomplished in less than 25 hours of engine operation.
When compared to single-grade oils, type M Aviation Oil 20W-50 offers improved cold temperature starting, quicker flow of oil to the cold engine, plus a full-bodied oil for high-temperature, high-load operation.
Viscosity @ 40degC 166
Viscosity @ 100degC 19.5
U.S Customer Service. 1-800-822-6457
Technical Support. 1-800-766-0050

[Alex Clark]

I ran my last 0-320 to 3,700 hours with straight-weight aero shell and MMO just before every change. Plus a shot glass of MMO in every tank of gas. But it hated 15-50.

The local 206s runs 15-50 and they all look like the Exxon Valdez when you look at their bellies.

We have been using Exxon Elite for the CAP planes it it seems to do just fine.

[mvivion]

kase,

I like the Elite for several reasons:

1) it's multi grade. I hate screwing around with oil changes during the "shoulder" seasons-fall and spring. Get up in the AM, "Dang, its' too cool to start, shoulda pre-heated", etc. Multi grade covers a LITTLE of that. I like to just buy one kind of oil, and run it all year.

2) It isn't as "runny" as the 15-50 Aeroshell oil. I ran 15-50 in my engine for some time, with no problems, BUT, I figure if at ambient temps it runs off my fingers, out of the can, down the cowling, that fast, it probably also runs off the camshaft that fast as well.

3) It's cheap if you order it at Sun N Fun or OSH, at least the last four or five years. They sell the stuff for a pretty good price and drop ship it free.

Jerry, thanks, for the update, but ashless dispersants are one of the "detergents" used in lubricating oils to help move contaminants away from moving parts, and keep them in suspension till the filter can remove them, right? So, does this mean Phillips doesn't use them? That was the point of my question, I guess. Every other lubricating oil uses dispersants to help get the gunk out of the engine. If they don't use them, I don't think I want to run the stuff.

As to taking an engine to TBO, that's more a function of regular use than the type oil involved, and Alex, considering most of the folks I've seen air taxi operators hire that wind up flying the 206's, I'd be surprised if they didn't blow oil ALL the time, on ANY kind of oil. That and some of the maintenance practices of some of those outfits.

Seriously, I don't choose the oils used here, but these guys got over a hundred airplanes, all trainers, all operating on 15-50, and its pretty rare to see any oil weeping. They are not treated gently either, believe me.

MTV