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Thread: Score one for the wolves

  1. #1
    nanook's Avatar
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    Score one for the wolves

    Heard from some friends up by Central, that one of the wolf hunter cubs needed a ride. The pilot put a little too much sideload on her on the Birch Creek. He told the Feds.," the wind blew it over while we were camping" .
    Gee let me see, wreck my cub for a $200.00 wolf hide, and I also get to pay for the gas. Sign me up, I need to be a hero for Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game...

  2. #2
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Hmmm,

    Sounds like Big Rocks and the Black River......

    MTV

  3. #3
    cubflier's Avatar
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    Friends of Wildlife are running an add in the Anchorage Daily News saying they will pay $10,000.00 for video of aerial wolf hunting or wolf hunting.

    Are they required to have the pilot and gunner sign a model release form?

    If only caribou and moose calves had so many friends.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  4. #4
    Christina Young's Avatar
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    I will gladly sell them my copy of This is My Alaska for $10,000! What is their phone number?


  5. #5
    Luke_theDrifter's Avatar
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    I hope no one is lured into the trap of this radicial extremist anti-hunting group for the $10,000 bucks...

    Wildlife is best managed using solid biological data, not some extremists' opinion, personal feeling, or personal bias.

    Bending an airplane when working it in off-airport conditions is just a fact of life as a practical matter. In a perfect world, or airport-to-airport operations, there is less chance of bending one.

    Pointing fingers, or laying blame to someone who bent an airplane is negative path to go down which rarely, or never has a postive result. Don't ever think it can't happen to you...no one is perfect, and this ain't a perfect world.

    I keep extra plane parts in shop for just such an occassion, more than once I was able to help out fellow pilots who needed some part in the field

  6. #6
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Christina,

    You may be onto something

    MTV

  7. #7
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Going woof hunting this weekend for a week. Does ithave to be from planes????

    Christina, are you not an attorney?

    Will you take care of the legal ease, for say 10 %. I will shoot vidio of our hunt for the $10k, but they are required to pay.

    It may not show the agonizing death of a revered creacher. More like me taking out a 13 year old neighbor and let him experience trapping and snow mobiling and cabin living in the wild. May have to "save the trees" from them nasty loggers with buck teeth and flat tails also. The Ptarmigan are eating buds off of the willows, which may cause a shortage of feed fro moose, so will eliminate some of them too.

    Call them Cy, let's make some money!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  8. #8
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Luke,

    thank you for your kind words about troubles.

    Nanook, a great guy used to say:

    be careful of the words you say, keep them kind and sweet;

    for you never know from day to day which ones you will have to eat!

    If you have not, you probably will bend or break something. It may be on a clear blue day sight seeing. How would you justify it to yourself then?
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  9. #9
    Christina Young's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58
    Christina, are you not an attorney?
    Jeez, I've been accused of being both a doctor and a lawyer on the same forum!! Where does anyone ever come up with this nonsense??

  10. #10
    Jerry Gaston's Avatar
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    How about sending them a video of wolves taking down a healthy elk or better yet killing elk calves and eating only the rearend. These people think that wolves only kill the old and sick.

  11. #11
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    ....old or sick.

    The greens seem to believe all the myths about the 'regal' wolf. How about this one...

    ...only the alpha pair mate (not true. The subordinates go to the edges of the packs' territory and mate with the subordinates from other packs)

    My wife and I went to a wolf lecture at University of Alaska, Anchorage. Our home is several blocks away from the Anchorage campus and it was convenient to go. We figured we could leave if we were unimpressed. The lecturer is a working biologist. Man, he debunked every one of the common wolf myths. The 'atmosphere' in the lecture hall completely changed as this guy 'shot full of holes' ( ) the close-held impressions of all the wolf-huggers whom attended.

    I felt quite vindicated and was very amused at the lecturer's effect on the crowd.

    Let's not break anything or get hurt hunting, guys. DAVE

  12. #12

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    Score one for the wolves

    Since when does PETA (people for the ethical treatment of animals) and other such groups, use objective science from biologists to determine policy?

    Walt Disney is the source of the policy that directs them.

    Phil

  13. #13
    cubflier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christina Young
    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58
    Christina, are you not an attorney?
    Jeez, I've been accused of being both a doctor and a lawyer on the same forum!! Where does anyone ever come up with this nonsense??
    At least you haven't been accused of being an astronaut.


    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!

  14. #14

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    Here's the sort of fiction that folks believe about all wolves. http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildl...-8519068c.html
    Cute, cuddly little critters that play with dogs and kids. Can't shoot them as they're so "human".

  15. #15
    Siwash's Avatar
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    These are not my pictures nor do I know who took them or where they were taken, yet they talk for themselves.










    Si

  16. #16
    RedEye's Avatar
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    Those pics are pretty enlightening, considering there was four timber wolves in my front yard a few mornings ago !! WOW !! The 30-06 is now loaded and within arms reach !!

  17. #17
    Christina Young's Avatar
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    We don't have wolves here in New Jersey (except locked up at the local wolf preserve a few miles away), but the local pack of coyotes killed a nice whitetail buck in my backyard back in December. They left it half eaten, then they either came back later on and finished it, or maybe the bears finished it off.

    Here's another one:



    From http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/p...574486,00.html

  18. #18
    Widebody's Avatar
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    I like the article dpearce posted, bean bags and rubber bullets
    Glad to see David didn't trade his 30-06 for a potato gun.

  19. #19
    12Geezer2's Avatar
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    Good One -Brad Geezer 2

  20. #20
    westwind's Avatar
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    pretty amazing photos......... mother nature at work..... we have our share of wolves and coyotes here too..... they are pretty amazing animals for sure and every year on our ranch we lose a few calves to coyotes... ..... just part of life, I guess they have to eat too........ I would never want to see either species wiped out, that's not to say that I don't take out the odd one that gets a little too friendly....... they have their place though, I feel that they are managed pretty well here along with the other species of wildlife.......on more than one occasion I have seen magpies peck the eyes out of newborn calves, animals of opportunity all of them ......... it appears as though the grizzlies get as many or more moose calves then the wolves do here......... I have seen the wolves get after the caribou in the YK and NWT and yes they are killing machines....... in my opinion though our biggest problem in Canada aren't the wolves but the indians of whom some abuse their unlimited hunting privileges..... take the porcupine caribou herd for instance....... every year it is a slaughter on the Dempster highway north of Dawson City with a 25% wound ratio....of which I am sure many of you are quite familiar with....... .... "maybe you all need another shipment to Yellowstone last I heard the Canadian wolves were doing pretty well down there" Ha Ha just kidding on the Yellowstone comment that is a population that needs some management last I heard.............. ......just what is the current status of wolf management there??[/b]

  21. #21

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    Re: Score one for the wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook
    Heard from some friends up by Central, that one of the wolf hunter cubs needed a ride. The pilot put a little too much sideload on her on the Birch Creek. He told the Feds.," the wind blew it over while we were camping" .
    Gee let me see, wreck my cub for a $200.00 wolf hide, and I also get to pay for the gas. Sign me up, I need to be a hero for Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game...
    Yea it is a lot safer flying Gordon Haber around isn't it! and you could be a Hero for the other side.
    Tim

  22. #22
    spinner2's Avatar
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    Re: Score one for the wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocub
    Since when does PETA (people for the ethical treatment of animals) and other such groups, use objective science from biologists to determine policy?
    Phil
    I thought PETA meant People Eating Tasty Animals?
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  23. #23
    mvivion's Avatar
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    There is nothing like saying the "W word" to get folks from both sides fired up.

    Nevertheless, predators of all stripes have been doing this for centuries, and big game populations seemed to sustain themselves.

    When the folks in the Upper Yukon Valley asserted that the beavers are blocking the streams so the whitefish can't get up into the tributaries to spawn, I ask the question: Whatever did the whitefish do before the Hudson's Bay Company came into the country and started buying beaver pelts?

    Wolves are predators. I have to admire them for one thing---I've never seen a human hunter who'd have the cajones to run up and latch on to a moose's hamstring with his or her teeth.

    Wolves regularly get the crap kicked out of them. They get broken bones, and they sometimes die as a result. Most of them mend and get back to doing what they do: kill prey and eat it.

    Is there waste? No doubt, sometimes, but not frequently. They generally eat whatever they can, and then lounge for a while, and then feed again.

    Now, before everyone gets their dander up, and attacks me with bared fangs, let me say that I have absolutely no problem with killing a few wolves, as long as the population can sustain the harvest. Just like any other species of game.

    And, just as a by and by, there has NEVER been a documented case of wolves attacking a human that I'm aware of.

    Cepting those dang werewolves, of course.

    Oh, yeah, Little Red's Grandma, of course.

    Again, I don't have a problem killing a few wolves, including using aircraft to do so. I've hunted coyotes from the air. The coyotes get even fairly frequently in those deals as well.

    I think wolves, moose, caribou and all other game animals should be managed to maintain healthy populations of them all, and if any portions of those populations need some trimming, open a season.

    Easily said, not so easily done.


    MTV

  24. #24
    harneymaki's Avatar
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    Are you more likely to die by lightning or by wolf?

    You have a greater chance of being killed or injured by the rarity of lightning strike than by wolf attack.

    The largest number of wild wolves in conterminous USA live in Minnesota, around 2,500 (Mech 2001), and are among the most studied wolves in the world. The wolves have killed no one, but each year one or two people die in Minnesota by lightning strike (NOAA).



    It still creeps me out when I find fresh wolf prints in my own 1 hour old tracks in the snow. Makes you look over your shoulder for awhile.

  25. #25
    Widebody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion
    And, just as a by and by, there has NEVER been a documented case of wolves attacking a human that I'm aware of.
    MTV
    I remember reading about this when it happened. So did a search and found it.

    Death in Canada could alter state's wolf debate; Apparent attack
    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The, Dec 22, 2005 by LEE BERGQUIST


    The grisly circumstances surrounding the death of a 22-year-old man in northern Saskatchewan are likely to influence the debate over wolf policy in Wisconsin.

    On Nov. 8, student Kenton Joel Carnegie was walking alone near a remote camp owned by a mining exploration company when it is believed that he was killed by wolves.

    Though an investigation is continuing, some wolves in the area had been attracted to a garbage dump and appeared to be less fearful of humans. Thus far authorities said Carnegie's death is thought to be the first documented case in the wild of healthy wolves killing a human in North America since 1900.

    "I think you can safely say that wolf attacks are rare, and fatal attacks are unknown," said Paul Paquet, a wolf biologist at the University of Calgary who is helping to investigate the death for provincial authorities. "So this attack is really exceptional."

    In Wisconsin, citizens and officials who are involved in wolf policy say the purported attack will shape the wolf debate at a time when the population of the animal is growing in the state.

  26. #26
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I would repeat, "There has never been a DOCUMENTED case of a human killed by a wolf, that I'm aware of."

    The case in Saskatchewan is a possible exception, but I don't believe they ever concluded the wolves had killed him. Perhaps they never will, so that one could have been wolves killing him or wolves feeding on him after he died from other causes.

    But, ask yourself this: They are predators. Why wouldn't they?

    More to the point, if there are so many of the big furry buggers around, why aren't we all carrying AK-47s and looking over our shoulders when out in the woods?

    People die all the time for a variety of reasons.

    Who knows--but I don't worry too much about the big bad wolf when I'm hiking around their neighborhood.

    Bringing up the scare tactics of the Big Bad Wolf is pretty lame. As the man said, you're probably more likely to be killed in your Super Cub, after being struck by lightning.

    So you're going to stop flying ?

    MTV

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion
    I would repeat, "There has never been a DOCUMENTED case of a human killed by a wolf, that I'm aware of."MTV
    I remember encountering wild dogs when a teenager growing up in Minnesota. Now, if you want to meet up with some nasty animals that are not afraid of humans, try them. Best to be armed if they are packed up, which they often did in the winter. Fortunately, the local farmers would spot them in the area and within a week, they seemed to be gone. Wouldn't surprise me if there was some wolf blood in some of them.

    .

  28. #28

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    Wolves and Bears are two animals that seem to go back to your first encounter with them, how old you were and what the circumstances were.

    My first real world wolf incident I was 10 or 11, down on the end of the lake riding the old '74 skidoo everest. What a machine for it's day. A wolf walked out onto the ice between me and the cabin. Everytime I took off for the cabin the wolf would run an intercept course and cut me off. I wasn't too happy about that and pretty nervous. We played this cat and mouse game for seemingly forever. When the family came to look for me, the ran the wolf right towards me. Didn't like that one bit. To this day, if there are not wolves around, it doesn't bother me.

    Just have to have something like that happen once and it sticks with you.

    I understand it's a balance thing, just balance them somewhere else.



    OK, have to edit this. Turns out i am a hypocrit according to my wife who points out I put wolf urine on the hedge to keep the moose off it. So while I dislike them out in the woods,apparently I don't mind their scent around my yard.

  29. #29
    Siwash's Avatar
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    FYI - This is the source of the three photos above that depict wolves working a moose.

    http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/photo_...ills_moose.htm

    Si

  30. #30
    Torch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubflier
    Quote Originally Posted by Christina Young
    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58
    Christina, are you not an attorney?
    Jeez, I've been accused of being both a doctor and a lawyer on the same forum!! Where does anyone ever come up with this nonsense??
    At least you haven't been accused of being an astronaut.


    Jerry

    At least not yet.

  31. #31
    Torch's Avatar
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    I have been real close to wolves on at least 4 occasions. None have ever been aggressive. Two times they were curious and just watched me as they went on by. The two other times, once they got wind of me they moved off through the bushes in the opposite direction. I don't care if people hunt them or not. Their fur does make a nice parka ruff.

  32. #32
    WWhunter's Avatar
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    Paul,
    The last I had heard the population was closer to 3500 in MN. The state really does have pretty good tabs on them and I was hoping they would open a season soon. But like lots of other states the are so many liberal anti-hunting types in the bigger cities that can keep voting the proposal down.
    I have had them walk right under me while bow hunting and they have looked at me and it didn't seem to bother them that I was there. This happened within 100yards of my house. I have gotten up in the mornings and there are tracks right up to my door and all around the house.
    I can tell when the pack is in the area because deer sightings drop significantly.
    I have never shot one but if they open a season I may if the opportunity arises. I do love to see them though....they are a beautiful animal. But a life size mount would sure look good in my log house.
    Keith

  33. #33
    gregory's Avatar
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    Been pretty close a couple times. Both from the air and on the ground. Truly amazing animals, them wolves. Had a pack that turned out to be a bunch of yearling pups and a couple adults mess with the dogs a couple years ago on opening weekend of moose season. We had a bull hanging at the cabin and right at dark the dogs started going crazy. They bark at bears but were not barking this time. So we assumed grizzly. Then they all(wolfs) hopped out on a sand bar about 150-200 yards from camp. One didnt make it as a result of that mistake.
    Had a interesting game with one from the seat of a snow machine one other time, but thats a different story !
    Greg

  34. #34
    harneymaki's Avatar
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    Keith,

    I've heard that number also. That was just and article I found and the figure was from 2001. As for close encounters, I've had several. They are an impressive animal to say the least. I really like to see them. It is the ones I don't see that give me the creeps.

    There is something about being up-close to them in the woods that really gives me a sense of respect for them and a certain amount of admiration. I've also got a great snowmobile story I'll share around a campfire sometime.

  35. #35
    WWhunter's Avatar
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    Paul,

    They ARE impressive. The two I was referring to seeing while bow hunting literally snuck up on me. I thought I had heard a grouse walking and all of a sudden those two wolves just seemed to materialize. It was pretty exciting sine they were only a few feet away.

    You'll have to fly down sometime when I get back to MN. I get back on the 12th of April.

    Keith

  36. #36
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Myth......they only kill when they need a meal............the biologist lecturer I wrote of earlier stated a documented case of 20 or so Dall sheep killed and left uneaten on a ridge in Alaska by a wolf pack. He had photos, really big ones, that were projected on a really big wall. There was alot of blood in the snow, but the animals were NOT consumed.

    ...undocumented kills of humans??...........it was reported (now I cannot document this, but there were not a whole lot of literate white men with notebooks hanging around these villages in AK at the time)...anyway, it was reported that around 1900, in WEstern Alaska, children were not allowed to play alone in some areas because the very large populations of "W's" were known to take a child now and again. Apparently it was common for adults to carry a weapon on their way to the outhouse for fear of "W" attack. Also note that it was reported that not alot of Meese (mooses) in the pots those years, it was reported (if not actually documented).

  37. #37
    85Mike's Avatar
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    Help me recall. There was an incident within the last decade of a wolf attacking a child at Icy Bay, AK. Seems the child was not seriously hurt as the wolf was driven off by adults. ?? Don't remember the details.
    Mike

  38. #38
    Christina Young's Avatar
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    Here's a list:

    http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

    Seems rare (in N. America, anyway), but does occur.

  39. #39

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    I think that there was some indication of the wolf in Icy Bay having been fed by the loggers for a while.
    It is weird that documented reports of wolf attacks are few and far between. Same thing with Orcas (Killer Whales). They are documented to eat just about anything in the water, from moose and deer swimming between islands, to much bigger baleen whales like humpbacks, but not humans. I have had them swim under my kayak, and definitely wondered why not?

  40. #40
    gpepperd's Avatar
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    All the talk about wolf attacks on humans etc is interesting but please don't loose sight of why the State of Alaska is conducting a small wolf control program. Our herds of moose, sheep, & caribou have been pretty well decimated by wolves. The remaining animals are having a tough time due to added pressure from bears on what few calves are born. That wasn't much of a factor until wolves destroyed the breeding stock. The pilots taking part in the program don't do it to be a "hero for the ADF&G" but because they are hoping to make a difference for Alaska's game; including the wolf.
    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of
    that comes from bad judgment. will rodgers

    "Anyone who would give up liberty for safety deserves neither" Ben Franklin

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