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Heel brakes

High Country

High Country

FRIEND
Eagle River, AK
Being a new SC pilot I was wondering how you guys use your heel brakes when landing. It is very hard for me to use the heel brakes and keep my feet on the rudder pedals at the same time. My ankles don't want to bend that way. Do you take your feet off the rudders and go directly to the brakes on a landing roll? I have tried that and don't really like it. Maybe it takes some getting used to or maybe there is a different technique that I don't even know about. Any advice?
 
If your rudder pedals and brake pedals are rigged right it should not be a problem keeping your toes on the rudders while using your heels on the breaks. I've flown a few cubs that I wish had blocks on the brake pedals(one actually does)!
 
That's actually what I was thinking of doing David, putting blocks on the brakes. But having only ever flown my own cub I didn't know if this was a common problem or not.
 
High Country,

It'll take a while to get used to. I bought Superchamps Champ and being used to flying Cessna's it was a bugger trying to get used to the heel brakes in the Champ. Now, after flying it about 40 hours it is getting a little easier but still not quite "smooth". But seems to be getting more second nature than when I first started flying it.

I am the same way as you though as far as keeping my feet on the rudders and trying to manipulate the brakes. But the more I fly it the better I am getting. Just keep at it and it'll come to you.

Good luck,
Keith
 
Two things to check. Look at where the rudder cables attatch to the rudder itself. Should be an attatch plate with several different holes. You can adjust the length of the cables by changing holes. Just make sure you can achieve full deflection of the rudder after adjusting the attatch plate. You can also sometimes adjust the brake pedals by rebending the attatch link from the master cylinder to the front pedals. If all else fails, wood blocks have been used(not sure if they're legal, but it helps).
 
I don't ever use brakes when landing. Granted, there is a transition period where you go from "landing" to the "roll out" stage, and then "taxi".

I'm not trying to be a smart azz, but maybe you're trying to use the brakes during the FLYING portion. Use the rudder for directional control while you have enough air flowing over it, after you slow down, use the steer-able tailwheel & rudder for directional control. The only time I use brakes is for holding the plane during a run-up, or turning sharply in a parking spot, or severe sidehill and/VERY short places. I don't even use the brake when taxing for departure.

Brakes on a Cub are NOT toe brakes for a reason. If you jab at the brakes on a Cub like a tri-cycle gear or heavy tailwheel Cessna, instead of using the rudder & tailwheel for directional control, you could find yourself off the side of the runway.
 
This is not uncommon - the initial inability to get your heels down there and actuate the brakes. It does take a few hours to get the hang of it - check with somebody with real Cub time before you go changing the geometry. Once your ankles get used to it, you will absolutely love the heel brakes. Never take your toesies off the rudder pedals during rollout.

I promise - you will get used to them, and you will love them!
 
When I first climbed out of a C-150 and into a Taylorcraft, I didn't think I would ever be able to figure out how to use heel brakes....then all of a sudden, it just becomes natural. :angel:
 
Never had that problem in the Cub, but your post made me remember that occassionally I used to do that in my Great Lakes. It just felt OK.

As others have said, it should feel normal after a while.

Rich
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I have just over 100 hours in my cub and have only really tried to use the brakes to shorten my landing roll a few times. But it was a real pain, especailly in heavier winter boots. I will just practice it more often and hopefully it will get easier like some of you said.
 
It will become an unconcious motion. Without gross movement of your feet, you can apply rudder without brakes, brakes without rudder, or both. I keep my feet aligned with both the rudder and the brakes at all times, and it seems a very natural positioning. I far prefer heel brakes to toe brakes, but that may be because 3/4 of my time is with heelbrakes.
JimC
 
Heel Brakes

It took me a little while to get used to heel brakes on my cub.My biggest worry was accidentally applying a brake but that never happened.I was taught to use them only as necessary.I also caution any passenger about resting feet on the rear pedals.
 
Sorry, guys, but there are heel brakes and there are heel brakes. The geometry is REALLY easy to change, and it is REALLY easy to set wrong.

You're right that, if the brake pedal to rudder pedal geometry is set right, it will fairly rapidly become sort of natural to use heel brakes.

But, if the geometry is set wrong by the installer, you will never get a human foot to make that turn. I owned one of those. Most miserable devices I ever dealt with, UNTIL some bright eyed mechanic fixed the problem.

The Cub I am currently flying--the front brakes are perfect. Very easy to use, etc. Geometry and relationship to the rudder pedals is just right.

The back pedals, where I spend most of my time--I cannot get a heel on one of those brakes without taking my feet off the rudder pedals, and using my toes on the brakes, which of course, is plain dumb. So, I just don't use brakes much. Those brake pedals are too far forward in relationship to the rudder pedals. The rudder pedals need to be moved, and they will be sometime soon.

If the geometry just seems REALLY impossible, it may be. If you are having to take your foot off the rudder pedal to get brake, get em changed. It sounds to me as if you have that issue. It is not rocket science, and don't buy the BS that all heel brakes are "just fine".

They sure can be, though. Get em adjusted, put a block on em, but if you do get them adjusted, or put a block on em, make sure you don't use them for foot rests in flight......

MTV
 
Mvivion makes a good point, but moving them from their stock location might present a paperwork problem.
JimC
 
After many years and hours in Cessna's, we bought the 12 to re-build. I'd never flown heel brakes and found them very uncomfortable just sitting in the thing. I'm 6'2 and my long legs made the geometry nearly impossible. Our soulution, which has worked perfectly, was to put in a Cessna seat on rails. (Back in the days of field approvals) ('99). Now I can move the seat back which helps a lot while Bill flys the thing with the seat forward. Best of both worlds.
In the beginning, I found the transition of my heels to the brakes a bit uncomfortable but I got over it.
Mike
 
MTV, thanks for posting. I will look at mine again when I get home off the slope. I was beginning to think that I was crazy and that everyone else had alot more flexible ankles thatn me. Hearing what you said, I think my cub may be one of those poorly rigged ones as far as the pedal positioning goes. Anyone got a cub at Birchwood that they wouldn't mind me sticking my head into and looking at their pedal positioning?
 
Jim,

What I was suggesting is that his brake pedals may not BE in the "stock" position. I'm not sure Piper cared all that much about the specific relationship of the pedals, but I've sure seen some that were way different than others, so I think some folks maybe don't think much about it when they rebuild/repair/replace.

As da man said, the front rudder pedals are simply connected to the rear. You can change that relationship, and move the front pedals, as long as you can still get full travel.

Cub seats are adjustable, as a reminder. I flew with a guy with long legs in his Cub, and he started complaining about having his knees up in the panel. We finally figured out the seat was adjusted to its forward limit.

That too will change the geometry of your feet on the pedals.

Find a smart mechanic and explain the issue.

MTV
 
I was a skeptic about heel brakes until I began 'cubbin' some years ago. With my leg length and brake geometry my heel begins applying brake as I run outta rudder, works just perfect as the Good Lord intended.

I prefer the heel brakes over toe brakes once I got used to them and it didn't take long for that.
 
The front brake pedals are mounted to a brake pedal reinforcing/mounting plate that is mounted underneath the front floorboard. this reinforcing/mounting plate can be moved fore and aft to a certain degree before it interferes with the diagonal reinforcing tubing that is mounted between the lower longerons. The exact placement of this mounting/reinforcing plate will help with the inital placement of the brake pedals. Adjusting the brake pedals by the pushrod that connects the rear pedals to the front pedals will also help in how far forward the front brake pedals sit in relation to the rudder pedals. My question is how far back should this brake pedal reinforcing/mounting plate be from the firewall?
 
Just to let you guys know, my mechanic found the problem last May. The rudder cables were the wrong ones. The were too short which put my heel brakes way under the rudder pedals. Changed the cables and they work like a pro.

Shane
 
It may help to adjust the position of the rudder pedals at the rudder horn. There is a metal strap between the cable and the horn with several holes for adjustment of rudder pedal location. Heel brakes are very natural to me. I have a partial amputation of my left foot which makes toe brakes problematic.
I had to change the location of the left pedal to accommodate my short foot and be able to use both rudder and brake.
 
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