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Performance Airmotive 3" exhaust

FYI...

Cubflier and I performed some performance tests comparing a stock muffler (2 1/2" tail pipe), a LEE's system and an Atlee Dodge High Performance muffler. We used two Cubs, my O-360 180hp and his O-320 160hp.

We did static pull tests with a dynamometer, RPM checks with a digital strobe tach checker (rated accurate within 1 RPM) and a climb test to 3000 feet.

We changed the systems as fast as we could and did the tests (pull / climb / RPM) back to back the same day so atmospheric changes wouldn't effect the results.

End of day with dirty hands and skinned knuckles we came to the same conclusion..... There's hardly any pull, climb, or RPM gain / difference between any of the systems we tested.


Take care.

Crash
 
That's interesting, and informative, information. Thanks for sharing that, Crash.

Bob
 
Crash said:
FYI...


End of day with dirty hands and skinned knuckles we came to the same conclusion..... There's hardly any pull, climb, or RPM gain / difference between any of the systems we tested.


Take care.

Crash
Click to expand...

Same thing I said in 2004.

I did the pull test on my 160 8244 cub last week. No increase in thrust between the Lees and original exhaust. Both exhaust pulled 540 lbs at 62F.
When I tested the exhaust it was with in 30 min of each other with the exact same weather conditions and prop.BTW, I took the LE exhaust off and put the original back on.
Click to expand...
 
So barring any massive performance gains, the deal breaker when shopping for a new exhaust may as well be weight savings, installation ease, and most importantly losing the dreaded exhaust AD for good.
All of these are addressed with the Sutton exhaust, and better yet it gets rid of that spaghetti of a system that stock contraption is....

No brainerd if you ask me....

Take care, Rob
 
Performance Airmotive 3'' Exhaust

sutton isn't a cure all in all cases either,four joints,big hole through a $800+ bottom cowl, lack of cabin and defrost heat-(yes i know most of you don't fly in sub-zero,but some of us do)that and it has a four cyl. ford tractor sound. it eliminates the a.d. though.

my vote is still for the performance dodge muffler,didn't have ''hard data''just have seen 75-100r.p.m. increase on two cubs i have owned,and it also eliminates the a.d. also.appreciate all that are changing to the other systems as it has made parts for the stock exhaust cheaper!!

jr.
:p
 
jr,
I didn't mention the sound but it is the one thing I didn't care for :oops: ... I think any exhaust that terminates the AD is a far better choice than the others :up . Glad to hear Atlees big exhaust does this. If you are not an IA, and fly a lot you will have spent the money to do this upgrade in inspection costs in no time...

I didn't notice any performance gain with the Sutton either, but have heard others have. I wonder how many are pitting a brand new, clean, straight exhaust up against a dented, carboned, cracked out 50 year old junker...


I can't speak much for heat in any of these, but would switch over in a heart beat if one helped out the air conditioning situation :oops:

Take care, Rob
 
I am seeking to solve the 50 hour AD issue and have reviewed nearly every post regarding exhaust systems (about 6 years worth!). I think this post has all but convinced me that the Performance Airmotive Exhaust system is the way to go. Looks to be a straight up bolt on replacement for the stock system, and eliminates the 50 hour shroud removing knuckle busting exercise that I have come to loath.

Any further comments before I order this year's Xmas present?
 
Add a Bose X or Lightspeed Zulu headset to your Christmas list as well. You'll need them.

I can "just" tolerate my Performance Exhaust at around 2300 RPM. At 2400 RPM it will rattle your brain out after a few minutes.

One thing it has done is cut my fuel burn (no high power operations except take off). I don't even have to look at the tach. anymore. Just pull the throttle back til I'm not irritated, and that's at 2300.

Take care.

Crash
 
Here's some tests Jerry (Cubflier) and I did on both our Cubs last spring. Mine a 180hp PA-18 and his a 160hp PA-18. This is JUST my Cub but his were about the same and were even about the same results between a $3,000.00 LEE system and the Performance Air muffler.

First a weight test between a Performance Air muffler (Atlee Dodge the manufacturer) and a stock Atlee Dodge PMA'd PA-18 muffler (with a 2.5" tail pipe instead of a 2")

Stock = 8.7 lbs

IMG_1452_edited_.JPG


Performance Air muffler = 7.5 lbs

IMG_1455_edited_.JPG


RPM with stock muffler = 2419 rpm

IMG_1618_edited_.JPG


RPM with Performance Air muffler = 2425 rpm

IMG_1616_edited_.JPG


Pull test stock = 678 lbs

IMG_1620_edited_.JPG


Pull test with Performance Air muffler = 680 lbs

IMG_1617_edited_.JPG


This is what I got out of this day spent testing...with the Performance Air muffler I lost 1.2 lbs, gained 5 rpm (may have been a max of 20 if I leaned it), gained 2 lbs of static thrust pull, gained a lot of noise, and my wallet was $1,000.00 lighter so the plane felt like it got off better. :D

Take care

Crash
 
bearsnack said:
My prop guy is the one that introduced the term cavitating to my vocabulary. He is on the conservative side of the park when we are talking climb props, it is hard to get him to pitch a prop down towards the climb pitch.
I think you are correct in saying it depends on the mission, in the past my cub has been used primarily to commute to work, light and empty most of time. I do some hunting and fishing with it.
So I guess I have been waiting for any excuse to reduce my commute time. Flying a 41 pitch where I run now would be a waste in my book.

What produces more thrust, a 43 at 2500 RPM or a 41 at 2500 RPM?
My goal is to have the high RPMs and the 43 pitch prop, that is what the exhaust mod is for on my cub.
Click to expand...

I had a new 41" pitch Borer on a fresh 160 hp O-320 in my -18. I could pull 2700 RPM in a 500 fpm climb. At WOT and straight and level flight I was well over 2700 RPM. I had the prop re-pitched to 43" and now I'm 2700 in straight and level flight and about 2500 RPM in climb out.

Takeoff performance was probably slightly better with the 41" pitch but the 43" is very close in takeoff and the climb rate is better with 43". Cruise speed increased about 4 mph. For me the 43" is the much better choice.

My exhaust system is stock.
 
I put the performance air on the Green Hornet at rebuild. I did not like it at first but I am used to it now. It is louder, and you have to re-learn the sounds of your engine because it is definitely different. I use LS 20-3G's and have no complaints with noise. I've had a few "sounds tough" comments from the ground, so that was good. :D

Lance
 
I awoke thinking of the Sutton system. I really like the simplicity of the design, the weight, etc. I like opening up that space on the firewall. I'm not a big fan of cutting a hole in my cowl, but I would probably get over that. I like the idea of keeping the crud off my gear as well. I already have the small starter and alternator, so that shouldn't be an issue. I have the oil cooler up front, wonder if that would cause me any pain. Anyone have any more thoughts or feedback on that Sutton system? I should add I'm a 160hp 320. What I don't want is a negative hit on performance.
 
Crash said:
Add a Bose X or Lightspeed Zulu headset to your Christmas list as well. You'll need them.

I can "just" tolerate my Performance Exhaust at around 2300 RPM. At 2400 RPM it will rattle your brain out after a few minutes.

Crash
Click to expand...

Loud like my 185 @ 2850 or just louder than the average cub?
 
Skywagon185 said:
I awoke thinking of the Sutton system. I really like the simplicity of the design, the weight, etc. I like opening up that space on the firewall. I'm not a big fan of cutting a hole in my cowl, but I would probably get over that. I like the idea of keeping the crud off my gear as well. I already have the small starter and alternator, so that shouldn't be an issue. I have the oil cooler up front, wonder if that would cause me any pain. Anyone have any more thoughts or feedback on that Sutton system? I should add I'm a 160hp 320. What I don't want is a negative hit on performance.
Click to expand...

Sutton exhaust is one step to putting a constant speed prop on...FYI.
 
So how come nobody talks about the Leading Edge system anymore. I got one some years back and I love it. heavy, but it should last forever. Stock PA 18 150 with a new 82/43 Borer I get 2800 in level flight, that is checked with a digital tech. seems like that is better than Spinner is doing with a 160hp..............
 
Redbaron180 said:
So how come nobody talks about the Leading Edge system anymore. I got one some years back and I love it. heavy, but it should last forever. Stock PA 18 150 with a new 82/43 Borer I get 2800 in level flight, that is checked with a digital tech. seems like that is better than Spinner is doing with a 160hp..............
Click to expand...

Based on what folks have said on these forums, not much bang for the buck in comparison. I'd hate to spend $3k plus and not get a performance gain. I am really only doing this to get rid of the muffler AD, nothing more. We fly about 200 hours a year and its quite a PIA to manage the current stock muffler. In fact, our airplane is the one KASE tested the LEE on so his experience on this airplane is the primary reason. I really only should be considering the Atlee given my pipes are good.
 
How about just gutting your existing atlee or piper muffle. That will cost you next to nothing and you will no longer have to deal with the ad. I second crashes statement on noise it was cool for about ten minutes. but it sure sounds good when your on the ground people say.
 
gander said:
How about just gutting your existing atlee or piper muffle. That will cost you next to nothing and you will no longer have to deal with the ad. I second crashes statement on noise it was cool for about ten minutes. but it sure sounds good when your on the ground people say.
Click to expand...

If "gut" means no heat, then no way. It was -19 here this morning.
 
Skywagon185 said:
gander said:
How about just gutting your existing atlee or piper muffle. That will cost you next to nothing and you will no longer have to deal with the ad. I second crashes statement on noise it was cool for about ten minutes. but it sure sounds good when your on the ground people say.
Click to expand...

If "gut" means no heat, then no way. It was -19 here this morning.
Click to expand...

That's all the Performance Air muffler is. A gutted stock muffler design with a 3" tail pipe. I've run a Performance Air muffler in winter and can tell no difference in heat output.

The PA-18 muffler AD was based on Piper's original muffler which used .035 thick stainless for the can and tail pipe. They tended to crack under the heat shroud and because of this, spurred the current AD.

Atlee's stock heavy duty PMA'd muffler uses .049 SS throughout, just like the Performance Air muffler. It also has MUCH larger gussets attaching the tail pipe to the collector "can" just like the Performance Air muffler.

If Atlee had gone to the FAA as an "alternate method of compliance" with his HD muffler, just as Butch did with the Performance Air muffler, you would be out from under the AD with a "quiet" $400.00 muffler.

Take care.

Crash
 
bobnall said:
Anyone care to share?
Click to expand...

I have put one of these "muffler" that don't deserve the name since they don't muffle anything. My ANR went crazy, send them back for repair, had a terrible week with the horfull sound. Lot of headache. Got them back, broke them again. Switch to another pair, still too much loud. Bought a decibel meter on ebay. 94 db with a real muffler ( 180 hp), 108 db with one of those new muffler. Figure it was ok to have 14% more sound until some guy explain to me that this difference between 94 and 108 is like double the pressure on the ear.
Back to my old real muffler. Passengers don't complain anymore. No more headache for me. Figure i will keep some hearing longer. Happy to got rid of those hp that are not free after all. Fed up with all this HP gain without any data on sound. There are called "muffler" after all, may be someone should care about db.
So if anybody want the big loud one, i have only 15 hours on it. Now i have to find out with my mechanic wich one was it. I know he did not have to make a hole in the cowling
Louis
 
Ok, here the story.

94 db with the old muffler that comes with a 180 hp stc by CC

108 db with the big Atlee muffler and that 180 hp

100 db with a 150 hp motor and a big atlee muffler ( don't know if it is the same model than for a 180 )

15 hours on the Atlee
0 hour on a Sutton that is brand new and that i won't even consider to test. This one you have to make a hole in the cowling. half price of retail for any of them. Both are made very sturdy. I just can't stand the db. Shipping from Canada.

Louis
 
I have a buddy who put a sutton on a exp cub with 10:1 pistons and a few other things he thought it would make his plane sound more like a cub and it still sounds like a modified go-cart. I will take the noise over the fart muffler. :lol:
 
gander said:
I have a buddy who put a sutton on a exp cub with 10:1 pistons and a few other things he thought it would make his plane sound more like a cub and it still sounds like a modified go-cart. I will take the noise over the fart muffler. :lol:
Click to expand...

So your implying that the Sutton would make my cub sound like a go cart?
 
Louis said:
0 hour on a Sutton that is brand new and that i won't even consider to test. This one you have to make a hole in the cowling.
Louis
Click to expand...

I'll give you $500 for that brand new Sutton you don't want :D
 
If you compare the 2 mufflers just on coolness of sound the sutton is weak however the performance airmotive is very load, a gutted stock muffler is about right for noise. Not a big issue for most but i am still a bit of a kid and refuse to grow up so cool sounds i like.
 
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