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New Discussion Forum on "Other" Airplanes

Paul:

I'm trying. And, yes, I could use a deputy or three!

By the way, this is my third attempt at posting in this thread; I hope it works!

Jon B.
 
Jon,
Waiting for a 170?
The wait is well worth it, if it's
the one I think it is.
Mark
 
mmr:

Yes, it's Bill Rusk's 170B. I'm getting a bit anxious to have it 'home' in Minnesota. Mrs. B said we needed more room than what the Champ has, so I didn't argue. I wish she'd tell me that I don't have nearly enough guns...

peeto:

Hey! I haven't seen anything from you here in a while (as in forever?).

I'm not the only one waiting for a new airplane.

Everyone else:

peeto is the soon-to-be new owner of the Kick-Ass (c) Champ. He won't be quite as 'in your face' as I am, though. I *do* hope we see it/him at New Holstein, though. If I can show up in a spam can, he can surely bring a tube & rag taildragger across Lake Michigan.

Jon B.
 
Jon-

If 1/2 of the SC folks are as friendly as those I met while in MN it would be hard to pass it up...hang in there!
 
I'm still piddling some time into a scratch built SuperCub, but will probably not finish it till I have one foot in the grave. In the meantime I'm flying a 52 C170B, it's been a lot of fun for the last 2 and a half years. Right now it's in the process of being converted to a Lyc 180hp with a constant speed prop.
 
Tim said:
Across Lake Michigan :drinking:

Well, if he's half as smart as I believe him to be, he'll fly around Lake Michigan. From his home, New Holstein is across the lake.

I'm a daring, manly, stupid bastage (and pilot extraordinairre, of course) but I wouldn't fly a Champ (or a Cub) across that lake.

Jon B. :eek:
 
Jon B. said:
Tim said:
Across Lake Michigan :drinking:

Well, if he's half as smart as I believe him to be, he'll fly around Lake Michigan. From his home, New Holstein is across the lake.

I'm a daring, manly, stupid bastage (and pilot extraordinairre, of course) but I wouldn't fly a Champ (or a Cub) across that lake.

Jon B. :eek:

I would fly a cub or champ across the lake....

At about 10,000 feet!


Jon-

You are going to love that 170, those 40 degree flaps are great!!!
Tim
 
Well I am not a Super Cub nut or anything like that. I own a 1956 PA-18/150 with allot of the bush mods. I also own a 1967 PA-18/160 on Edo 2000 floats and also have wheel gear for it. Like I said I am not a Super Cub nut.
My third plane is a Pitts S1S, it is powered by a Lycon angle valve 360 that is rated at 242 HP at 3100 RPM. It has a empty Wt. of 796Lbs., and a gross Wt. of 1100 Lbs.. It has Sparcraft wings 4 ailerons 20 gallon fuel / 19 useable and fully inverted fuel and oil system. The header tank allows for 3.5 minutes inverted.
I have been flying for 32 years, and have flown allot of different airplanes and gliders, from J-3 to Lear35A. Now if I cant land on a small lake or a bush strip or do acro, its just another airplane.
 
Been lurking for awhile. A 180 friend of mine (Hi Mike) pointed me
here saying there's more/better technical discussions & answers on
the C-180 here than there is on the 180 forum/site.

Just bought a '54 C-180 last August (had a '54 C-170B before
that). I also have a long-term SNJ-5 project.

Bela P. Havasreti
 
I have been tossing the idea of a 180 around in my head. I have found several decent ones for less that I can get a good SC. What are most of you 180 guys getting for fuel burn? I realize that the operating expenses will be nearly double of an SC but on a long cross country it would even out. I can still keep the SuperChamp for playing I guess.
Are there any major maintaince issues with an early 180 (53-59) that I should be aware of other than the fuel bladders?

Thanks,
Keith
 
My 180 with a O-520 and a 3 blade burns about 14.5GPH according to the fuel flow meter at 2350/2400.
 
New Discussion forems on other airplanes

I have a friend who owns a 1959 Cessna 180 on floats at this time. He decided to put it back on wheels for awhile cuz the insurance was killing him on floats. He doesn't fly it a lot during the year- maybe 50 hours. He is a very proficient tail wheel pilot having owned a J-3 , Supercub, and a Stinson in the past years! He is concerned with his brakes if he puts it back on wheels. If I remember right, it has the old Goodyear wheels and brakes, which in my opinion were almost worthless!! He asked me what brakes he should put on when he gets rid of the Goodyears. He is also concerned with the cost of new Clevelands and if he might be able to go with a used set. Do any of you C-180 or C-185 drivers have any ideas I can relay to him???Any help would be appreciated !! John
 
WWhunter said:
I have been tossing the idea of a 180 around in my head. I have found several decent ones for less that I can get a good SC. What are most of you 180 guys getting for fuel burn? I realize that the operating expenses will be nearly double of an SC but on a long cross country it would even out. I can still keep the SuperChamp for playing I guess.
Are there any major maintaince issues with an early 180 (53-59) that I should be aware of other than the fuel bladders?

Thanks,
Keith

Figure 11-13 GPH depending upon how you lean and how bad you
need to get where you're going. Having previously flown my 170B along
side my buddies' 180s, if they brought the power back to stay with
my 170 (aka slow-poke speed), we ended up taking on the same amount
of gas at our destination (within 1/2 a gallon). Like you say though,
it evens out.... At the 180's normal cruise speed, you're burning more
gas but you get there quicker. I did the math (compared to my 170)
as follows:

200nm trip

C-170; 100 knots @ 8gph = 16 gallons (@ $4.12/gallon = $65.92) for 2 hours of flight, nmpg = 12.5 nmpg (14 smpg)

C-180; 130 knots @ 12gph = 18.46 gallons (@ $4.12/gallon = $76.06) for 1.54 hours of flight = 10.83 nmpg (12.13 smpg)

The 170 is quite an efficient airplane, but with the 180, it's a nice trade-off
to spend just a skosh more for the trip and not have to worry about
clearing the trees at whatever strip you're trying to get out of, and it's
also nice to know that whatever you can stuff into the 180 and get the
doors closed on, it'll haul it into the air. The 180 also "shines" at altitude
(mine did 162mph @ 22 squared at 6500 feet with 600x6s and wheel
pants on it, don't know how much mounting 8.50s on there will reduce
that yet).

As far as what to look out for, a lot of the early 180's out there were used
up in the lower 48 before they got sold to Alaska, then they got used
up more up there landing on boulders 'n such, then they got sold
to Canada where they got further used up, and then gomers like me
buy them and import them back into the states to restore them back
to the way they should be (grins). All kidding aside, the guys tell me the
early bladders ('53-'56) tend to hold up better than the later ones (Cessna
changed the rubber composition around 1957). If it has an O-470A,
walk away. The J is OK, but the two bolt exhaust flanges need constant
attention unless you replace them with thicker (1/4"?) flanges.

Other than that, the 180 is an overgrown 170 with a big block up
front and a funny, squared off tail. Other than the constant speed
prop and governer, airframe maintenance (ADs and the like) won't
be that much more/different than, say, a 170. Insurance is a factor
of hull value (among other things) and will be more (my 170B was
around $950/year for $40K hull, my 180 is currently $1,600/year
for $70K hull).

To the other question about brakes, I can't believe anyone is still
driving around on the Goodyear wheels & brakes! If you're friend
doesn't want to spend $1K on a new conversion kit, used stuff
can be found/had. Check eBay, Barnstormers or the aircraft
salvage yards.

Bela P. Havasreti
 
Thanks guys on the 180 info. It is an idea I have been contimplating for the last year or so since it is hard to find a decent SC for a reasonable price. And all I need is something to haul a load in and out of my 1000 ft strip. I have also looked at 170's powered with a 180hp but their prices are nearly the same as a Cessna 180.

Keith
 
WW:
I've got a "53" C-180 with the "LITTLE" J engine. I love it. I'm amazed at its performance every time I fly it. MT weight with Gar-Aero 29" tires is 1497#. That's only a couple hundred lbs heavier than a lot of Cubs.
The "A" engine is not a bad engine if you take care of it. Get an early 53-54 C-180 and don't add a bunch of extra crap to it. Keep it light. You will be amazed at how it will perform. If I had to sell a plane, it would be a Cub not the 180.
Buy a 180, IF, you learn to fly it, you won't be sorry.
 
TJ

I think you got the name wrong unless they got a new partner.

Duwee, Cheetum and How Esq.
 
Well, since no one chimed in with a list of what to look for, here's a few things to check. There are many more potential issues, and your mileage may vary on those, too. By-the-way.....O-470 A's and J's are not very different and both need good management to not burn up cylinders.

Aileron cables worn out at outboard-most pulley right before the belcrank
Also worn out at the three little pulleys in the middle of the rear spar carry-through. (Old and new a/c that haven't had new cables in 5 years and don't use external gust locks WILL!! be worn in these areas.)

Early 180's...corrosion in wings between the skin laps, also between spars and spar caps
smoking rivets at the 'angled rib'(just outboard of the fuel bladder bay)

Corrosion around the battery area and also the steel doubler in some 180's aft floor edge.
Crushed door frames
Cracked-out door hinges...both on the door and also on the fuselage
Cracked cowling around oil access door, etc.

Loose gear box rivets
Sheared rivets just aft of stabilizer aft hinge bracket
Unmaintained trim jacks
Sheared trim wheel roll pin
Flap handle pivot wallowed out
Control 'y' pivot wallowed out
Flap skin trailing edges cracked
Flap tracks worn out
Flap support arms worn out
Aileron counterweight rivets sheared
Loose rivets on aileron where pushrod-end bolts on
Worn out ruddder pedals
Old wiring
Brittle old exhaust systems
Main gear 'sprung'
Tail spring mount areas, rubbers, shafts, etc.

I could type for another twenty minutes all the stuff that shows up on these airplanes. Many of the listed items will show up on most :eek: of the older ones. Many of the older ones will have 75% of the items I listed. What I listed should keep you busy looking for awhile.

Sorry for the suprise if you're surpised. I work on these things and I find this stuff. Maybe each item will not ground the a/c, but they will all add up to make you choose wisely how much to offer when purchasing.

Good Luck. DAVE :)
 
Dave,

Thanks!! That was the info I was looking for. But with all these old airplanes there is a lot to check...age takes its toll.

Keith
 
We saw a fair share of 170's fall out of the sky these past two or three years killing several people, granted it was all pilot error, but maybe that funny square tail on a 180 makes a 170 a better airplane. I agree that a 170 is a fine airplane, but I sure have seen allot of them crash when loaded up.
 
Hello fella's

I have a question. I have been studying the 180/185 market lately. I have been interested and am puzzled by some of the extremely high asking prices for low time planes. I have owned supercubs from the cheap ones to the expensive one's. I know as well as you that what some are asking for these supercubs are out of line and priced too high.

I guess what I am trying to ask is what are good 180/185's selling for. Reletively low time and average equipment. What I see that is relatively low time are IFR machines decked out better than most Barrons and A-36's. I for one think cubs that require vacuum systems and lots of equipment are for one not what they were intended to be and as a result very over priced. Is this some of the same trend that I am seeing in the 180/185 market?
 
The market is very soft right now and some good deals can be had. A good 180 can be had for less than 100M and a good 185 for less then 140M. Reasonable TT time and 1/4 time motors. A low time <1500TT and <150smoh in either will fetch another 40+. People know the market is soft and are trying hard not to give away their skywagons. There are several right now with new motors and props that are offered for less then what they should. I think it is a great time to buy.
 
I'd just say find the plane you want, do a little value research on it, and make an offer. Remember no matter how pretty it is a clever AI can spot 10K worth of stuff that needs to be fixed in about 11 minutes. Or in my case, 20K.... :roll:

sj
 
From this end I click the CC Ad and defaults to an error. But you already know that. ?
 
FORTYSIX12 said:
From this end I click the CC Ad and defaults to an error. But you already know that. ?

Nope, they must have changed their website around a bit. Thanks for the heads up.

sj
 
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