Hooker Harness: Need Advise

I'm about to replace my current lap belt in my PA-12 with a shoulder and lap belt from Hooker Harness. The annual is going to be done next week as well as a few other things.

I researched the various products out there and decided on Hooker. Then I came across the postings re someone having a problem with Hooker and "customized" installation. I advised the A&P/IA and he called Hooker re the attachment points and the mechanism of mechanical attachment itself. Hooker then started doing a tap dance re cross brace tubes on the overhead and the cross brace member attachment to the rear for the rear seat. Well this A/C has a headliner that must be removed, an access hole cut etc. Hooker says that they need specific lengths from seat to cross brace member before they will manufacture the shoulder harness.

My question is: This is a certificated aircraft. Distances should be the same within all aircraft, of this type, to a reasonable degree. Because there will not be an inertia reel, there is a certain amount of slack that will be necessary. It seems reasonable that the attachment point brackets will be able to absorb a certain amount of slack. We aren't talking about the "rocket sled " here. Is Hooker being a pain in the ass or am I and my very experienced A&P/IA got our collective heads up our backsides. Hooker also said that they make the shoulder harness, but we will have to get the attachment brackets elsewhere. This also struck me as odd.

Thanks for any help

Tom Constantine Seaworthy 99-1

Tom-

I think atlee makes the bracket you will need for the"x" brace seat belt attachment. Im not exactly sure how to attach the rear harness though, im sure steve at atlee dodge would be able to help you though.

Their (hooker) seat belts have some adjustability in them, im sure they could tell you.

Tim

Seaworthy said:

Hooker also said that they make the shoulder harness, but we will have to get the attachment brackets elsewhere. This also struck me as odd.

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Tom, I don't know if this helps any but when my A&P installed the Hooker Harnesses in my plane I got the Atlee Dodge attach bracket (comes with STC & simple install instructions) and it worked out just fine.

Here's the link: http://www.fadodge.com/products2.html

Tom,
I know Jack and doubt if he's being a pain in the ass. If anything, he's trying to cover his ass. I do know that he has a good reputation for satifying his customers. I also know that like anyone in the retail business, Jack has has to deal with a small percentage of customers that have problems. Be specific on your measurements. Nothing is "custom" unless you give him very specific measurements and details. Regardless of what anyone says, not all supercubs are the same.... I'm sure different attach points or attach brackets change the lengths. Maybe send a drawing of what you are attaching to, the distances, and the belt style you need, and have him call you.
I put his harnesses in my other cub....took them out of the box and was flying in an hour. Now I need to get them in the new cub.
Keep in mind, if you give any harness company the wrong measurements or detail, they aren't going to fit. The difference is how the supplier corrects the problem.
Good Luck, Wilbur

Hookers are the best.

I have a diagram showing how the Hooker belts 'hook' up. If I can figure out how to post it I will.

Tom, if you do a search on Hooker, you'll probably find a full range of opinions (too many to list here).

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=76120&highlight=hooker#76120

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=9127&highlight=hooker

S.F.

Hooker Harness

I have ordered the seat and shoulder harnesses from Jack also. I received a phone call yesterday asking me to recheck some measurements. I was impressed with their concern to get it right the first time. All cubs are not alike and I am afraid there are different attach points and devices being used. Measure twice and cut once is the rule here. Also keep in mind with the reels that there is an option on which way they mount, up or down, depends on how you attach. I think we need to give the folks at Hooker an attaboy! for trying to get it right. I will report on the installation when they arrive.

David Cahoon

I've ordered the attachment brackets from Atlee Dodhe (thanks Christina). After they are installed then will do the measurements. Shame they don't send out a flyer with the rationale re how much slack etc, unless they figure that it when they cut and sew. Will also let you know how it is going.

Tom Constantine

Super Cub seat belts and attachment brackets for inertia reels...

Seaworthy said:

I've ordered the attachment brackets from Atlee Dodhe (thanks Christina). After they are installed then will do the measurements. Shame they don't send out a flyer with the rationale re how much slack etc, unless they figure that it when they cut and sew. Will also let you know how it is going.

Tom Constantine

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Tom, My name is Jim LaVore and I have one of the last Super Cubs made in 1994. I just ordered the attachment brackets from Atlee Dodge, FAA PMA approved. I plan on ordering the seat belts and inertia reels from Hooker Harness as soon as I get the attachment brackets installed and can take the measurements for Hooker just like you did. How did yours turn out and how do you handle the headliner penetration required with the install to get to the airframe attach steel tubing? I want to make the installation look as well as it will perform. Would really appreciate any information on the installation that you can shoot my way. Thanks. Jim LaVore 305 731 6418 cel. KMTH, Florida Keys

Do these have the adjustable feed on the upper belt attachment? Thanks.

Pa11flyer15h said:

Do these have the adjustable feed on the upper belt attachment? Thanks.

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I don't have the Hooker seat belts yet but I'll have to look on the Hooker Harness web site or call them to find out whether their inertia reels have the adjustable feed. Jim L.

I found Hooker very difficult to deal with, but I was happy with the end result. Wilbur measured his harness & sent the lengths to Hooker for me. I have an inertial reel for the front seat, fixed length for the rear seat, and Atlee Dodge attach brackets for both. I had a problem with one bracket (wrong tube size), but I have a homebuilt. Atlee Dodge sent me the correct size bracket once I measured the tube (I had thought everything was the same as a SC, but there's a few differences, as I've discovered). Both harnesses have been on for a dozen years now, with no problems.

I have no idea whether this post helps anyone, but there it is.

Anne.

I use Air Force style seat belts, which are similar to the Hooker. The lengths of webbing and how they are sewn together, and where they mount are critical to safety and comfort. It took me about three attempts with a parachute rigger to get them perfect. Different Cub owners like different arrangements - that is probably why Hooker does not supply a standard Cub setup.

I would not fly without at least a four point system. I totally dislike those flimsoid 2" belts with the metal shoulder harness pieces that only fit one way and require four tries to get them on. I hate inertia reels. That's just me - others love that stuff.

If you are going to have inertial reels it really helps to have a five point system so that the belt does not ride up. If the belt rides up it's going to be really ugly in a mishap. Just my opinion.

Bill

Scott @ Hooker has been a prince in several custom deals with me. Talk to him. I can'y imagine you'll be disappointed.

I also had a fine experience with Jack & his folks. Vivian & I toured their shop. They have a form to fill out to get all the measurements correct. Will be worth your while to carefully measure so the belts will fit you. They also have the best inertial reel in the business. Ask Jack about his Cessna 180 Project.

I ordered the attachment brackets from Atlee Dodge for my Super Cub. These folks have a great attitude, their brackets are stainless steel, well made, and STC'd. I have come across the same issues with the headliner and the seat belts.. I contacted Hooker Harness about the seat belts and got the same response as you did. Then I visited their booth at Fun and Sun and came to this conclusion: they are a bit arrogant and I found myself getting irritated with them just from talking to them. Sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it that can make all the difference in business. Maybe they just make a lot of race car seat belts and the Super Cub thing is not that important to them. I can verify that there is a bit of an attitude there regardless of what some other Super Cub owners have said. Maybe it just depends on what day of the week you call or who's at lunch, I don't know. But I do know that unless you're Audie Murphy or Mike Thornton, you haven't done anything to be arrogant about...

Too bad Allan Silver couldn't get his superb belts TSO'd. They are truly things of beauty - I have them in my Super D, backed up by flimsoid TSO airline belts. I have never needed the ratchet, and I am inverted multiple times each week.

http://www.silverparachutes.com/acrobelt/

I ordered mine at Osh last year and then went home and did the measuring. I'm very satisfied with the product and enjoyed my visit with them(at Osh) . i also appreciated the discount! Brett