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Thread: PA-12 owners manual/flight manual

  1. #1

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    PA-12 owners manual/flight manual

    Does anyone have the original one...probably not too thick. I had a couple questions about some of the info inside.

    Thanks!
    Philip

  2. #2

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    When you are in Tampa come over to my office and I will give you one.
    727.299.9600

  3. #3
    skukum12's Avatar
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    I've got the 'handbook of operating limitations and information, PA12.' It's very thin, is this what you are looking for?
    "Always looking up"

  4. #4
    StewartB
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    Phil,

    I have my original Airplane Flight Manual. It consists of a cover sheet and 4 pages. I have the cover and 3 pages. I'd be happy to provide you a copy. PM me a FAX# or address.

    If anybody has the original Piper Report #571 (PA12 Airplane Flight Manual) page 4, I'd appreciate getting a copy.

    SB

  5. #5
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    While on the subject of PA-12's can sombody PM me Clyde Smiths number?

    Thanks

    Tim

  6. #6
    StewartB
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  7. #7

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    Tim,

    Clyde Smith, Jr's phone numbers:

    Work 570-748-3927

    Home 570-748-7975

    John Scott

  8. #8
    Tim's Avatar
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    Phil, what do you want to know. Is it the lowest airspeed possible over trees to land short, and not break the landing gear?

  9. #9

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    Well I think we figured that one out

    Check your PMs

  10. #10

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    Thanks guys, I found what I'm looking for. I Appreciate all the help!

    -- Philip

  11. #11
    Kodiakmack's Avatar
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    Did anybody find out if someone has a digital copy and willing to share? I have one from Univair in the mail, but I need something to get me flying legally as well as for my order spec sheet for the EDM 900 I"m putting in.

  12. #12

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    Is this what you are after?Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	51374Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiakmack View Post
    Did anybody find out if someone has a digital copy and willing to share? I have one from Univair in the mail, but I need something to get me flying legally as well as for my order spec sheet for the EDM 900 I"m putting in.
    Were you ever able to get a digital PA-12 POH copy? I am in need of one too. Thanks

  14. #14
    mvivion's Avatar
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    This thread exhibits a common misunderstanding of nomenclature.

    First, there is NO Pilot Operating Handbook for a Piper PA-12.

    Second, the booklet that Brandsman posted a picture of is the "Operating Handbook" or "Owners Manual", or whatever. Tells you basic information on how to take care of your airplane. This document is typically NOT required to be aboard the airplane for flight ops. Univair is a common supplier of these.

    Third, for many (but not all) airplanes build before the mid 1970's, there is another document which IS required to be aboard the aircraft for flight. This document is called a "Airplane Flight Manual", and was issued to that particular aircraft serial number. Typically, the manufacturer of the airplane is the only one who can issue a new or replacement Airplane Flight Manual. That said, many of these documents were virtually identical between examples of the same model.

    When I purchased my 1952 Cessna 170, the Airplane Flight Manual was in tatters, and virtually unreadable. I contacted Cessna, who referred me to their supplier, I gave them the serial number of my airplane, and the four page "Airplane Flight Manual" arrived in the mail a few days later, complete with my serial number.

    Here's a link to the PA-12 Type Certificate: https://www.cubclub.org/tc/Piper/A780.PA-12.pdf

    Scroll down to item 401, and you'll find the requirement for an Airplane Flight Manual:

    401.One of the following CAA (FAA) Approved Airplane Flight Manuals revised to include any statement required under
    "Propellers and Propeller Accessories" and/or Item 103, if applicable.
    (a)Airplane Flight Manual dated March 24, 1947, or Piper Report No. 551 dated
    March 24, 1947 - includes Propeller Item 1 and O-235-C engine.
    (b)Piper Report No. 570 dated April 15, 1947, includes Propeller Item 3 and O-235-C engine.
    (c)Piper Report No. 565 dated June 13, 1947, includes Propeller Item 1 and Item 103.
    (d)Piper Report No. 571 dated June 13, 1947, includes Propeller Item 3 and Item 103.
    (e)Edo Report No. 2342 dated April 10, 1947, revised January 11, 1949, includes
    Propeller Item 1, O-235-C engine and Item 204.
    *(f)Supplement to Flight manual dated April 20, 1955 (Required with Item 403 Ross Control System)

    And, note in the case of the 12, the Flight Manuals are specific to propeller installed, and Supplements.

    Many modifications for aircraft come with a "Airplane Flight Manual Supplement", which also MUST be aboard the aircraft during flight.

    To add a bit of confusion, some airplanes built prior to the 1970s, when standardization of "Flight Manuals" into the now required "Pilot Operating Handbook" (which didn't exist in the late 1940s) were never issued an Airplane Flight Manual by the manufacturer. For example, my 1958 Cessna 175 has no requirement for an Airplane Flight Manual, according to the TC. BUT, several modifications came with a required "Airplane Flight Manual Supplement", which DOES have to be aboard the plane when it's in flight to be legal. So, no AFM, but an AFM Supplement has to be aboard. Go figure.

    So, it helps to use specific nomenclature as to which document you actually need.

    MTV
    Last edited by mvivion; 09-16-2021 at 02:53 PM.
    Likes Brandsman, Nolan liked this post

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    This thread exhibits a common misunderstanding of nomenclature.

    First, there is NO Pilot Operating Handbook for a Piper PA-12.

    Second, the booklet that Brandsman posted a picture of is the "Operating Handbook" or "Owners Manual", or whatever. Tells you basic information on how to take care of your airplane. This document is typically NOT required to be aboard the airplane for flight ops. Univair is a common supplier of these.

    Third, for many (but not all) airplanes build before the mid 1970's, there is another document which IS required to be aboard the aircraft for flight. This document is called a "Airplane Flight Manual", and was issued to that particular aircraft serial number. Typically, the manufacturer of the airplane is the only one who can issue a new or replacement Airplane Flight Manual. That said, many of these documents were virtually identical between examples of the same model.

    When I purchased my 1952 Cessna 170, the Airplane Flight Manual was in tatters, and virtually unreadable. I contacted Cessna, who referred me to their supplier, I gave them the serial number of my airplane, and the four page "Airplane Flight Manual" arrived in the mail a few days later, complete with my serial number.

    Here's a link to the PA-12 Type Certificate: https://www.cubclub.org/tc/Piper/A780.PA-12.pdf

    Scroll down to item 401, and you'll find the requirement for an Airplane Flight Manual:

    401.One of the following CAA (FAA) Approved Airplane Flight Manuals revised to include any statement required under
    "Propellers and Propeller Accessories" and/or Item 103, if applicable.
    (a)Airplane Flight Manual dated March 24, 1947, or Piper Report No. 551 dated
    March 24, 1947 - includes Propeller Item 1 and O-235-C engine.
    (b)Piper Report No. 570 dated April 15, 1947, includes Propeller Item 3 and O-235-C engine.
    (c)Piper Report No. 565 dated June 13, 1947, includes Propeller Item 1 and Item 103.
    (d)Piper Report No. 571 dated June 13, 1947, includes Propeller Item 3 and Item 103.
    (e)Edo Report No. 2342 dated April 10, 1947, revised January 11, 1949, includes
    Propeller Item 1, O-235-C engine and Item 204.
    *(f)Supplement to Flight manual dated April 20, 1955 (Required with Item 403 Ross Control System)

    And, note in the case of the 12, the Flight Manuals are specific to propeller installed, and Supplements.

    Many modifications for aircraft come with a "Airplane Flight Manual Supplement", which also MUST be aboard the aircraft during flight.

    To add a bit of confusion, some airplanes built prior to the 1970s, when standardization of "Flight Manuals" into the now required "Pilot Operating Handbook" (which didn't exist in the late 1940s) were never issued an Airplane Flight Manual by the manufacturer. For example, my 1958 Cessna 175 has no requirement for an Airplane Flight Manual, according to the TC. BUT, several modifications came with a required "Airplane Flight Manual Supplement", which DOES have to be aboard the plane when it's in flight to be legal. So, no AFM, but an AFM Supplement has to be aboard. Go figure.

    So, it helps to use specific nomenclature as to which document you actually need.

    MTV
    MTV, thanks for taking the time to give us that clarification on terminology and the history of the subject. I do have the A-780 onboard as well as several of the Flight Manual Supplements required per the STC’s. I’m interested in exactly what you quoted, line 401(a):
    Airplane Flight Manual dated March 24, 1947, or Piper Report No. 551 datedMarch 24, 1947 - includes Propeller Item 1 and O-235-C engine.

    I believe that’s a one page document that lists mostly specifications and limitations?

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