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Thread: Tire Pressure

  1. #1
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Tire Pressure

    Just attached my new 31" bushwheel.

    See some of the old airstreak lines, but not much. Radial is a bit different.

    The paperwork says from 8-20 lbs. seems high on a cub. What are you guys running for tire pressure in the tundra/gravel bar operations?

    Thanks
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    tires

    I run 8 lbs. when expecting to land on smoother terrain and also when going on long cross country where drag is problem. Air them up to 12 to 15 for deep holes and rocks or landing on sand bars. The are about as much drag as my edo 2000's when full of air however. Best allround for me is 12 lbs. Experiment you will get feel for it. To low and could spin and cut off valve stem. Also I checked them fairly regular with low pressure gauge. One can get of a few pounds and on pavement you can feel it tugging to one side on landings.

    Hope the above helps.

    Jim N94X

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    wouldn't you want them softer for landing on obstacles such as rocks, sticks, sand bars etc??? and harder for pavement???

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    Re: tires

    Quote Originally Posted by J Huff
    To low and could spin and cut off valve stem.

    Jim N94X
    The bushwheels have the valve stem on the side of the tire (it does not go through the rim) of the tire.

    Tim
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  5. #5
    Bill Ingerson's Avatar
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    Tires

    A few race cars screw the tire to the rim to keep from spinning the tire on the rim. Im curious if thats a good idea on the tundra tires?

  6. #6
    StewartB
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    Bill,
    The reason some guys screw their tires to the rims is to prevent the tire from moving on the rim, shearing the fill valve on the tube inside. Bushwheels don't have tubes. Or I should say they're built in, and the valve sticks out of the sidewall of the tire itself, not through the rim. That way, the tires can be run at low pressure, and maybe even creep a little on the rim, without fear of hurting the tube.

    Mr. Huff,
    Your tires don't get bigger with more air. They get harder. My tires are essentially the same size without any air in them or with 20 lbs.

    Tango,
    My 12 isn't airworthy yet, so no report on the 31's, but friends are running 6-8# in 31's on Cubs. My Cessna's 29's are under 12#, at an average operating weight of 2600-2800 lbs.

    SB

  7. #7
    Mikey's Avatar
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    Seen it done w/ some of the old 4" tundra tires, not necessary w/ the AK Bushwheels (or possible). Mine are bias ply, & I have been getting the feel of them for last month or so. 12psi seemed too bouncy,so have been keeping then at 8-8.5 and like the feel on gravel bars or turf. I know some guys w/ land soft, them pump up for shorter takeoff roll. I'm picking longer beaches for now.
    Chris
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  8. #8
    Bill Ingerson's Avatar
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    Bush Wheels

    Thanks for the report on the Bush Wheels, I did get to ride in a PA-18 with the 31" tires. Couldn't believe how well they worked on the gravel bars. Im going to get a set for my plane and probably the tail wheel also. I have heard the 29" have a stiffer side wall. might tend to bounce more? Thanks again.

    Bill

  9. #9
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Jhuff....

    Um, ok, but don't you remove the advantage of a "Low Pressure Tire" by raising the pressure for rough fields?

    Yes, you can spin tires, (did it with the Goodyears, hence the bushwheels) running lower pressure, but as mentioned, Bushwheels (and the old airstreaks) have the valve stem on the sidewall.

    I am looking to see if with bushwheels anyone tweaks the pressure and gets good results with lower pressures, (4 lbs?) or how they perform.

    Not wanting to reinvent the wheel.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    The beauty of the biased 29,31 bushwheel and the 30 airstreak is a couple of things. 1) the high sidewall and 2) the ability to absorb(cushion) a rock, bump or what have you. With the biased tire you can run them down to 4lbs or so. The radials I know little about and would like to hear some field experiences with them. The soft tire protects the airplane from the jarring of the terrain. Pump the tire up hard and you negate the cushioning advantage and the airplane then just bounces around and the airframe takes the impact. Hotshot can really add to this discussion. I have a set of Gar-aeros and I run them in the 5-6lb range.pak

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    tire pressure

    My tires are 26 inch good year tundra tires.
    more I air them up the more prop clearance I have. So it is a trade off.
    The mud gets deep in Louisiana in the winter so I would run them full pressure in those circumstances, etc.

    Jim

  12. #12
    Redbaron180's Avatar
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    With lower tire preasure the footprint is bigger an you sink less.

    Ron

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    Not in deep mississippi mud. Thats why all those guys put on tall tires and jack up the pickups.

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    Try a set of 31's and you will get rid of those 26, at least for mudding.pak

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    tire pressure

    Pak,

    We got tired of gettin stuck duck huntin. The Mississippi river island we hunt on has some serious deep mud. Went to edo 2000's. Would like to try those super big tires some time however. How much more do they weigh than 26 inch goodyears.
    Jim
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  16. #16
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    Ok--

    I won't go int the whole Goodyear Blimp tire thing, all I will say is that you will not need to screw the tires to the rim with the Bushwheels and it is not recommended on any tire very high risk (if you have ever seen a tire blow due to a bead rip you know what I mean). I won't get into the skinny tire fat tire for off road 4x4 stuff either. But what Ron said about foot print is correct the fatter the foot print the more floatation you will have.


    Um, ok, but don't you remove the advantage of a "Low Pressure Tire" by raising the pressure for rough fields?
    Yes you do.....


    I have heard the 29" have a stiffer side wall
    Stiffer... not really just shorter than the 31" Bushwheels .

    Ok I will put this into perspective the low profile tires on your teenagers rice burner hot rod make it corner like it is on rails and you feel every crack and rock in the road but the gumbo mudders on my jacked up "Monster Truck" as my sons call it make it handle so so on the high way but off road they take up the bumps and holes like they aren't there. The taller the sidewall of the tire the more flex it will have there for less shock will transfer through the tire into the truck/plane.

    There that should completely confuse every one so my work here is done....

    Wup

  17. #17
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Wup,

    Ok, give on pressures.... if you were out on the tundra, how much pressure would your tires have in them for bouncing through the rough stuff????????

    Of course, we are just imagining...

    George
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    Wup,
    As you know, I've had 3 diff. SC's with 31's on them and I know that you fine gentlemen at Bushwheels recommend a min. of 8#.... but I consistently run 5.5# to 6# cold in these tires on all 3 cubs and have been very pleased with the performance-shock absorbtion and braking. However, I will point that in the last year I have only landed on concrete or asphalt 1 time. So this is just an opinion, and we all know about those-they are kinda like assumptions! And , by the way, those are the lightest 31''s I have ever had and they perform great-couldn't feel the gravel bar today!
    Thanks,
    Rich

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    I recently saw the Ellis brothers Bushwheels. One brother was running bias tires and the other brother was running radials. After seeing how bad they looked after a year or two, I will be buying some Gar Aeros. I remember that when they ran the gar aeros that they held up much better. They were still landing on the same stuff. You have to deflate either brand if you are doing any of airport work, you might as well get a tire that can stand the abuse!
    The thought of someone landing those radials fully inflated on some soft stuff really gives me a good laugh.

  20. #20
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Ground loop-

    You said it. And pumping them up for rough.... I just learned to not use the breaks, big holes were enough to stop the airstreaks.

    AS far as the Ellis boys, yes, I have heard that they go through tires Quickly. I can also tell you that they went to the old bushwheels as soon as they came out, then went back to garr aerro tires.

    BUT they are again on bushwheels.

    I spent the summer in the Nebesna country about 10 years ago flying. I have used some of the same strips as they use, and looked at others and wisely decided they were not for me... (Bill warned me one night at Duffys "Don't follow my boys, they will hurt you"). And he is right. The rough, shale, lava, sloped and crowned spots thoes guys put cubs are a tribute to what a cub can do.

    But back to the Bushwheel: there is a reason they don't have Garr-Aerros on and keep running the bushwheel. I land in much less abrasive areas than the lava/shale that is their daily diet. But thanks for the info, I need to get back there and say hi...
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  21. #21
    hottshot's Avatar
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    OK, the Ellis Boys are amoung the most extreem pilots that I know of and that in it self should tell you well if they are running them something must be working right or they would not be running them...... just a thought. And when we took over the tires we were told that if we could build a set of tires that would last the Ellis crew 3 seasons that we would be on to something, now ask Kirk how long he has had his tires.

    Ricardo--

    Good to hear that they got there on time! and shhhh don't tell anyone how much they weigh..... oh well....
    I still haven't gotten any pictures!!!

    As for tire pressure on a light cub in the ruff I would start at 8psi and work it arround from there to see what works best for where you are going. now keep in mind that the radials are alot more flexable than the old bias were so running them a little higher pressure will work. so try it out and see what works for you and have fun.

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    Hottshot, Does that mean that the Ellis boys have a three year guarantee?
    Does your statement imply that if the Ellis boy's tires aren't lasting 3 years that you aren't onto something (in other words, need further product development to get it right)?
    Do you think they got three years out of the Gar-Aeros?

  23. #23
    StewartB
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    Groundloop,

    Do you have any personal experience with Bushwheels radials? Your posts remind me of the LEE thread and all the guys bashing it. Most had no personal experience with the product. You played defender and had some valid points because you actually had used the system. So here's my take.

    I have two seasons on my 29's on my Cessna. In two years they've seen one asphalt landing. They look excellent. Two years of normal use on a plane that outweighs your Cub by 1000# for average flights, and obviously takes more runway and higher ground speeds coming and going. I expect many more years of use, too. But I don't fly where the Ellis brothers do, or as often as they do. Maybe you do.

    I have yet to meet a single pilot that after using Bushwheels wants to go back to something else. Not one.

    SB

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    Stewertb, I am just reporting what I saw. I have seen the results of a few seasons of gar-aeros, and a couple sets of bushwheels. The rest were direct questions to hottshot based upon the statements he made.
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    i have well over 1000 landings on my 31 bushwheels. much of it on pavement. they look just fine. i keep 7 pounds in for everything from 6 inch rocks on the rivers to soft stuff and never had a problem yet. 8 or nine would make it easier to push around though.

  26. #26
    hottshot's Avatar
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    Ok first off I am not here to imply anything.... and sorry for not getting back to you earlyer my internet connection at home sucks!!


    Hottshot, Does that mean that the Ellis boys have a three year guarantee?
    No, they get the same warranty as any one else. we just know that if a set of tires lasts them awhile in their use type that the tires will most likely last the normal person (No offence Kirk,Cole not to say your not normal...) alot longer because of the use and abuse that the tires receve with the type of flying that they do.

    Does your statement imply that if the Ellis boy's tires aren't lasting 3 years that you aren't onto something (in other words, need further product development to get it right)?
    Nope, that would be insane there is always room for improvement. And we will keep trying different things as time goes on to see just what works and what don't. (you should see the didn't work pile)

    I have seen the results of a few seasons of gar-aeros, and a couple sets of bushwheels.
    You are trying to compare two different purpose built tires so you will have quite a difference.

    Keep the dirty side down!!

    Wup

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    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Wup-

    What do you do for testing anyway? Put them on your light pickup truck and drive them around the countryside? I think you might have a market in...well lets say the urban ghetto if you added the gold plated cleveland rims with the adapters to fit your average caddy.


    Tim

  28. #28
    hottshot's Avatar
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    We will have to come out with a 20" wheel and a 30 series low-pro bushwheel and then you would see them in the Urban Jungle....

    As for the testing we do ... well there is the normal Dyno testing that takes place for the Feds and then there is the real world testing that happens on a daily basis here with asphalt use and off field use along with some other stuff that if I told ya I'd have to kill ya

    Wup

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    Bushwheel LOVE

    LOVE them BUSHWHEELS

    My 3 year old 31's have just over 80 hours in 2004 and zero asphalt landings to date....one asphalt take-off because the kids wanted to take off at International to see the big boys really up close.....

    I run them at around 8#'s and vary up and down depending on the destination. The caliper will rub with low pressure and side loads even with spacers.

    As hard as I try to land straight I occasionally land skidding one way or the other on gravel/shale in crosswinds and/or over rocks and brush and swamp...the tires are absolutely holding up great!

    They will NOT land EVERYWHERE a fourwheeler goes, almost though! I was where I was not supposed to be but was able to get out.

    I have a BRAND NEW set of Goodyears, twenty to thirty landings, if anybody has a need of a set send me a line.

    I have flown Gr-Aero as well, got a set.

    Every tire has a reason for existing and every pilot flies different. Grab your checkbook and try a brand and if it suites you GREAT if not get another set and fly them.....JUDGE from your personal experience what works for you adn what does not.

    The Bushwheel boys and girls have supported me beyond my expectations as have their rubber...tires so I happen to like them but decide for yourself what works for you.

    Chris

  30. #30
    kase's Avatar
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    A friend of mine just put on these 31 radials and runs 8 lbs in them. I flew it and they seemed just as soft as my 29 bias at about 5 lbs. It really does roll easier with the radials, i didnt believe it until we had both planes on the ramp and pushed them around. He also installed a new 180 hp engine last week, didnt seem nose heavy at all to me.



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    35-inch Tundra tires

    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    A friend of mine just put on these 31 radials and runs 8 lbs in them. I flew it and they seemed just as soft as my 29 bias at about 5 lbs. It really does roll easier with the radials, i didnt believe it until we had both planes on the ramp and pushed them around. He also installed a new 180 hp engine last week, didnt seem nose heavy at all to me.


    I have the 35 inch Tundra tires on My Super Cub, what would be the best tire pressure for landing on rough tundra, with the risk of holes ?

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    Since nobody has answered…..deflate your 35s until you can barely push it in or out of the hangar. That’s always been my limiting factor unless you want to pack a compressor
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Since nobody has answered…..deflate your 35s until you can barely push it in or out of the hangar. That’s always been my limiting factor unless you want to pack a compressor
    Perfect , I plan to try 7 pounds now, hopefully that works .
    Thank you.
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  34. #34
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    3 works great for 35’s. Sucks to move the airplane. I put 8psi in when customers cubs come in so I can move them around


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernAviator View Post
    Perfect , I plan to try 7 pounds now, hopefully that works .
    Thank you.
    If you go shoot a couple landings at your home field at 7 psi and then at 3, you will feel a huge difference. Then you are your own test pilot at home under controlled conditions before you get in the rough stuff.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ View Post
    If you go shoot a couple landings at your home field at 7 psi and then at 3, you will feel a huge difference. Then you are your own test pilot at home under controlled conditions before you get in the rough stuff.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Thank you for the information, I will do that on the weekend and see how is goes .

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    That is a very complex question LOTS of factors to consider. Things to consider, takeoff distance is greater with low pressure on hard surface/better with high pressure hard surface, landings are softer with low pressure/low pressure can make for grabbing action on non slick surface, Much harder to move aircraft with low pressure (prop can pick up rocks/old people just pull stuff or have MI), traction/breaking is better on slick stuff with high pressure/may not absorb or roll over rocks/logs/stuff as easy and can sink in tundra or soft stuff. How about the gear? The AOSS and other exp gear are game changers lets you get into hard/rough stuff and keep the tire on the ground so you can stop short. How is the plane loaded tail light with nose down trim, or tail heavy with nose up trim. One of them helps keep the prop safe. Take off is another issue are you tail low letting the wings pick up the weight or tail high making the tire roll over bump into everything? Do you have the prop/power to pull the tire through the rough stuff so you can get back out? Do you do power on wheel landings so you can blow the tail down/around if needed? Uphill/downhill? What kind of tundra? I have seen 29 in Air hawk tires drop to the axle. Stay on shale hilltops with tundra you can do fine with a smaller tire. Soooooooo, bottom line is you have a cub and the tire may run into a tundra hole. Weight on the tail, nose up trim, tail wheel low landing, Criss wyckcoff are your friends no matter what tire you have. If I am going to unknown landing areas I air my 31's down to about 3 psi and always carry a electric tire pump to adjust once I get on the ground. DENNY
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    Two surfaces. One you depart from and one you arrive at. Adjust tire pressure to make the plane roll easier on the surface that matters more that day. Maybe rolling over logs is the priority. maybe a hard gravel bar with tall trees is the priority. Get out and push the plane around. Pay attention to how much throttle you're using to taxi. The answer will come to you.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    That is a very complex question LOTS of factors to consider. Things to consider, takeoff distance is greater with low pressure on hard surface/better with high pressure hard surface, landings are softer with low pressure/low pressure can make for grabbing action on non slick surface, Much harder to move aircraft with low pressure (prop can pick up rocks/old people just pull stuff or have MI), traction/breaking is better on slick stuff with high pressure/may not absorb or roll over rocks/logs/stuff as easy and can sink in tundra or soft stuff. How about the gear? The AOSS and other exp gear are game changers lets you get into hard/rough stuff and keep the tire on the ground so you can stop short. How is the plane loaded tail light with nose down trim, or tail heavy with nose up trim. One of them helps keep the prop safe. Take off is another issue are you tail low letting the wings pick up the weight or tail high making the tire roll over bump into everything? Do you have the prop/power to pull the tire through the rough stuff so you can get back out? Do you do power on wheel landings so you can blow the tail down/around if needed? Uphill/downhill? What kind of tundra? I have seen 29 in Air hawk tires drop to the axle. Stay on shale hilltops with tundra you can do fine with a smaller tire. Soooooooo, bottom line is you have a cub and the tire may run into a tundra hole. Weight on the tail, nose up trim, tail wheel low landing, Criss wyckcoff are your friends no matter what tire you have. If I am going to unknown landing areas I air my 31's down to about 3 psi and always carry a electric tire pump to adjust once I get on the ground. DENNY
    Great information, Thank you

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