PA-18 " V " Speed help ??

I am trying to get a buddy of mine ready for his private check ride. He is going to use his PA-18-150 since he has 100 hours in it.

Examiners being what they are now-a-days, I was having him memorize all of the various V speeds.

BUT, we can't find Va (manuevering speed) published in his book. (1970s supercub) So we looked in the book for my old one, (1950s) and still nothing. I even checked my L-21 military manual.
I found Va listed in the old original PA-12 manual at 95 mph. It even listed the speeds for different manuevers.
BUT,, so far nothing on the PA-18.

Has anyone seen a published set of V speeds for the PA 18 in different manuevers????

I figure 90 mph for full control deflection would be about right,,, but guess work won't help in this case. Examiners are way too use to using spam cans for check rides and I would like to swing this the other way....

Alex Clark CFI, Homer Alaska

According to the Type Cert Data Sheets (1A2), for ALL the PA-18(&19) models the same manuevering speed is listed EXCEPT the PA18-"150". It says for the "150" man spd is 96mph(83kt) and for all OTHERS (including PA18S-150 and 18AS-150) man spd is 94 mph (82kts). Don't shoot me on the mph/kts conversion. That's what the TCDS says.

Alex,

In this part of the world you have to have an plane with a gyro panel in it do to the private ride due to the instrument requirements.

sj

Sure Check Aviation Inc. www.surecheckaviation.com produces a handy cockpit checklist for the PA-18. It is available at Stoddards in Anchorage.

V speeds on their list are:

Vy 65 KIAS (75 mph)
Vx 39 KIAS (45mph)
Vso 37KIAS (43 mph)
Va 83 KIAS (96mph)
Vno 105 KIAS (121 mph)
Vne 133 KIAS (153 mph)

Got my PPL in my Piper Clipper with a venturi powered turn and bank.

Steve, not in the last couple years you didnt'....

It does vary from FSDO to FSDO...

sj

What do they make you do these days? My examiner put me under the hood, then put me in an unusual attitude and I had to recover. Did that twice and that was it.

The PA-18 we are trying to use has a Artificial Horizon (attitutude indicator) that is vacum driven.

Plus it has an electric turn and bank.

PLus it has a panel mounted GPS.

It used to have a VOR in the panel but it died. SO we are trying to mount a King Kx 99 hand held VOR/Comm in there to make the exaiminer a happy camper.

(when you think of it, that GPS is better than anything else that was ever in that panel) Gee why not put the old spring loaded speed indictors back on the wing structs just in case the panel airspped dies.....

If that does not work (Plan B) is to have the student do most of his check ride in the PA-18 and then jump in my 150 horse converted C-150 to do the VOR work. Hopefully we won't have to do this since it will mean more training time in my little super spam can.

He flys the PA-18 just fine, but he is not up to speed with an over engined phone booth doing 130mph.

This VOR/GPS thing came up before my checkride. What the examiner told me was you had to dimonstrate that you knew how to navigate with a VOR which to him was I caould show him on paper. I used the GPS in the checkride because it was installed in the A/C. He said it could not be a handheld, had to be mounted in the panel.

I got my ppl 2 years ago this August in a J3 with a venturi powered turn and bank out here in Seattle at Vashon Island Air.
Check out his web sight http://www.island-air.com/
All the training is in the J3 except the night flying obviously and some hood work which is done in Georges' Maule
The check ride was taken in the j3.

Love those J3's
Rv8tor

Steve,

Up here it seems that they are now requiring ALL of the manuevers in the book. They used to be required to pick a few and then do the oral questions. Well now the last few people doing check rides have been an all day affair. Three or so hours of questions and planning followed by 1.5 to 2 hours in the air.
S- turns with wind correction, turns about a point, Normal take-off, short field , balked landing, soft field landing and taxi, power off landing, Wind drift circle, usually before the turns around a point if they don't seem to get it, A couple of retangular patterns, Forward slips, Slow Flight just above a stall, Power on stalls, power off stalls, Steep turns, Spiral Descents,
Then the hood stuff, turns, striaght and level, unusual attitude recovery , and once they are green from that then they get to figure out where there They are with the VOR, Then they have to cross over to a couple of other radials and re-establish themselves while expalining what they are doing.

Alex

I sold my PA-12 20 years ago so Ma could have a new house. I just found another one in a barn and had a bad itch to buy it and rebuild it. I am not sure I want to go through all the B.S. to get current if I have to do all that crap. Makes one think about telling the Feds to go to hell and pay the fiddler when one gets caught.

old doc said:

Makes one think about telling the Feds to go to hell and pay the fiddler when one gets caught.

Click to expand...

Wow, I guess that's one way to look at it...

Personally, I'd feel bad about the people I killed in the accident too...

I didn't realize that an Airmans Certificate prevented accidents. Get good training. That's more important than the check ride.

As an examiner until 1999, I can tell you how we handled that around Boise. My son also took his private check in our cub with needle, ball, airspeed, and panel GPS (I was not the examiner for that one). He did all his instrument work, as prescribed in the PTS, with the above named equipment (boy I'm glad I didn't have to!) and demonstrated his knowledge of navigation with the GPS. The oral exam covered some VOR theory.
So, it can be done, but it's harder than having an attitude indicator, vsi, etc.
Dick

Good training is the main thing...but there has to be some way to verify that it ever took place or has sunk in.

Last summer I had two supercub-cub student pilots that needed another 90 day sign off...

The first had 60 hours in his own Cub solo and with another instructor... He had NEVER been into a real full stall. He thought that MCA was about 60 mph. He did not know what a falling leaf was or how to stay out of a spin. Plus his landings were not so great. All of that was fixed in about two hours. Now he can fly his cub in circles at 40 mph and feel confident in his control.

The second guy had GET THIS 200 hours as a student. When asked to show me a stall he simply pulled up on the stick, then let it back down. I don't think we ever went slower that 55. His idea of a pattern was to make a nice oval race-track in the sky. Every steep turn had the ball way off to one side. He always floated for at least 1000 feet before landing...

I worked with him for awhile and signed him off... BIG MISTAKE... Now he is bombing around doing the same mistakes over and over. I see him every now and then. FROM A DISTANCE.. That explains why he has gone thru a few instructors and wrecked at least once.

So doing it the outlaw way and just saying the heck with check-rides and standards is not in all of our best interest. I already pay way too much insurance....

I thank God I had a good instructor.

Amen, Dragonfly
!!