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Thread: 160 hp running hot!

  1. #1
    murph's Avatar
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    160 hp running hot!

    I just converted my O-320 to 160 HP and am now having oil temp problems. It's running about 235-240 on 90-100 degree days, but our hottest weather is yet to come. I assume that the higher compression causes more heat, right? I've filled the gap between "smile" and the oil cooler with weather stripping and that hasn't seemed to help. The vernitherm is working because the oil cooler is getting hot. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remediate this problem?
    Thanks,
    murph

  2. #2

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    Murph ; I ran a little hot with my 160 for about the first 15-20 hrs then it cooled down to normal . It will most likely cool down once the thing seats in a little . bummer having to break it in in the summer though . Dean

  3. #3
    cubdrvr's Avatar
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    Murph.........you still have the front mount cooler? I put the Niagara lightweight cooler on the rear baffle on my cub and it actually runs cooler than the 150 did.
    Lightweight cooler might help..........and be sure to check your baffling is correct. Last summer at 90-100 my temps were running about 200-210 and typically run about 100-110 degrees hotter than the OAT.

  4. #4
    hottshot's Avatar
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    Murph--

    What kind of oil are you running?

    With the Exxon Elite we noticed a drop of 15 to 20 degrees in oil temp

    Wup

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    I hope you didnt break it in with a Borer prop and 31 Bushwheels, especialy in Texas. Put on a 56 pitch prop and 800X6 tires and get some air moving over the engine. High rpm ( from the Borer and low MP because it turns easy) and no speed from the tires ( lack of cooling air) maybe part of your problem.

  6. #6
    kase's Avatar
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    I got a Niagara mounted front oil cooler on a 160 and I am getting the same temps as cubdrvr.

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    I had the same problem and was informed that Niagara makes two different sized coolers that look almost identical. The #3 is bigger and is reputed to do much better. Mine is the #2 and I just can't fly if the outside temperatute gets over 80.

    check to see which you have

  8. #8
    adventruousairman's Avatar
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    [color=red][/rcolor]Greetings, I had my engine rebuilt to a 160 a couple years ago, with new millienum cylinders, it ran hot for about 40 hrs, now its fine, works great, smoother, more power than the previous 150..I have the same front oil cooler with no problems.

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    Cool Alaska

    It will be nice and cool North of the Canadian border in the next week or two.

    Some just run hot. Getting to altitude here in the West can be a problem but just be patient. Some times I have to step climb to keep temps under control.

    Don

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    Re: 160 hp running hot!

    Quote Originally Posted by murph
    I just converted my O-320 to 160 HP and am now having oil temp problems. It's running about 235-240 on 90-100 degree days, but our hottest weather is yet to come. I assume that the higher compression causes more heat, right? I've filled the gap between "smile" and the oil cooler with weather stripping and that hasn't seemed to help. The vernitherm is working because the oil cooler is getting hot. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remediate this problem?
    Thanks,
    murph
    buy a 30 dollar digital heat probe at a cooking store and varify the temp guage is correct. Run your engine until it reaches what you think is 230,short taxi and check it against your dash mounted instrument. get one with a straight lead so you can put it down the oil fill tube. If the guage checks out Check you vernitherm with its seating component on your stove at home in boiling hot water and your new digital temp probe. They close when they get hot, I think at 180 degrees. If boiling and you still see a gap ( which i bet you will ) there is your problem Engines run cool if everything is in order. I'v rebuilt a few engines and yes they run slightly warmer after overhaul but not what talking about.I did not want to believe that a brand new vernitherm was bad when My IO720 would not run cool. I'm in florida and at 80 degrees F and 2500 RPM I don't see temps over 180 degrees from my 94 PA-18. good luck

  11. #11
    Goodman's Avatar
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    Murph We had the same problem ,If your running the 2000a cooler it won't cool it ! You should change it.

  12. #12
    Lawn Dart's Avatar
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    For those that are interested, I talked to Niagara a couple days ago. They told me that the 20377A is the direct replacement for the front cooler on a PA-18-150. They also said that it?s currently not approved but they expect the paperwork back from the Feds within the next month or two. My question is, is this particular part # the hot item for a cooler front cooler?

  13. #13

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    I would suggest that, if you haven't already, doing a search http://www.supercub.org/phpBB2/search.php using the term niagra

    This subject was throughly discussed last year about this time.

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    gdafoe's Avatar
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    Thanks to Kase here is a link that you may find interesting. http://www.oilcoolers.com/aeroclassics.htm I see the 8000328 in the Wick calalog for $366.56.
    Gerald

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    delete

  17. #17
    CubCouper's Avatar
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    I bought one of the Niagara oil coolers a year ago... works great, but they were just finishing up their FAA paper then. I've been calling every couple months to get the official papers and am beginning to believe that they aren't really working on it. In the mean time, I'll keep the old one around just in case I need to run hot again.

  18. #18
    kase's Avatar
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    I looked at my Niagara oil cooler today pn 20377A which is approved under the TC and it also has a 6 digit Piper pn 455-168 on it. When I bought it 6 years ago from Stoddards they had to get them from Piper.

  19. #19
    gdafoe's Avatar
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    Now the question is, what is the difference in performance between the different aluminum front mount coolers? the Niagara oil cooler pn 20377A, and the aero classics 8000328, Does anybody have experience with comparing these? or are they virtually the same?
    Gerald

  20. #20
    Wayne Mackey's Avatar
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    Heat

    Murph,
    Had the same problem with a 10.5 to 1 0-360 exper. cub. I closed up all the gaps
    around the intake box and oil cooler, than inlarged the size of the lip on the rear of
    the lower cowl and layed it at a lower angle. This in proved the lower cowl vacume
    with greater air flow though the cowl. It droped the oil temp. and cyl. temp. as well.
    It mite help you if you havn't already fixed the problem. Wayne

  21. #21
    murph's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone who weighed in on the overheat problem. The problem still persists here in TX, but was not a problem in AK's cooler climes. I'll first tackle the vernitherm and then go from there. The engine is also clinkering up the plugs very often and not turning up like I think it should, so I suspect some deeper problem. Maybe bad plugs or timing that's off. I'm also going to have my Borer prop checked for pitch.

    Wayne Mackey, we came by to see you on the 4th of July, but as expected, you weren't around the airport. We were headed home from AK and had a long day ahead of us, so we pressed on.

    murph

  22. #22
    Wayne Mackey's Avatar
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    Missed you

    Murph,
    Sorry we couldn't get together when you were here. I have a small shop at my
    home 12 miles north of town. I sometimes land in the yard but wouldn't advise
    anyone else to. Short and I know where the holes are. If ever this way again
    call ahead and i'll buy lunch. Wayne

  23. #23
    murph's Avatar
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    Thanks Wayne. I hope I can take you up on that some of these days. I'd like to see your work.

    murph

  24. #24
    kase's Avatar
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    I was flying the other evening and it was 96F. At 2500 rpm with a 8244 prop my cht was 381, egt 1375, oil temp 205-210. 0320-A2B WD converted to 160 hp with a front mounted 20377A oil cooler.

  25. #25
    murph's Avatar
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    We installed a new vernatherm and the problem still exists. Does anyone have any other ideas on how to cool off a hot 160? Is there any way of getting the oil lines crossed or something along this line? Does it matter which way the oil flows through the cooler? Just grasping for straws here. Did the addition of 31" radials cause the problem? Everyone else seems to get along fine.

    murph

  26. #26
    sodak's Avatar
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    murph, its your 31 tires, send them to me . mine runs 210 to 220 now 85 to 95 outside. cheers dean
    Strangers are friends I have not met yet

  27. #27
    cubdrvr's Avatar
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    Hey Murph........
    From my limited knowledge I would first check that the baffling is correct and installed properly, then go to the oil temp gauge. Have you checked that your oil temp gauge is reading right? If not, you can heat some water ( or oil ) in a coffee can with a torch and put in a cooking thermometer until you have a steady temp........then insert your temp probe in and see if your gauge matches the cooking thermometer. There may be a better way to do this but it hasn't got to SD yet.

    Cooler could have a restriction somewhere. Did you install a new oil cooler? Have you tried a different ( replacement) cooler?

    You comin' up this fall to chase pheasants?
    "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"

  28. #28
    murph's Avatar
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    Hey Deano:

    It can't be the tires 'cause all the big boys have them. How you doing?

    Dave:

    I need someone to tell me what cooler I need to try, I guess. My guage was just overhauled a couple of years ago, so I don't think it's lying. Baffling is all new and just like the old stuff.

    I'd love to do the pheasant hunt, but will probably be flying pretty hard during the fall. What are the dates?

    Thanks,

    murph

  29. #29
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Murph,

    Since nearly every thing else has been mentioned already, I'll relate an experience I had. My Cub (150 narrow deck) ran really warm, even in Alaska, mostly oil temps, but also cht. We checked all the stuff mentioned here, nada.

    I finally called Lycoming. Bob Ohnmeiss told me to get an automotive compression tester, and hook it up to each cylinder, and do a compression test while motoring the engine through with the starter.

    The automotive tester (as opposed to the aviation compression tester) is designed to determine if a cylinder is MAKING compression, not whether it will hold pressure in a leakdown test.

    Long story short, I had two cylinders with bad rings (one with broken ring) and a hole in one piston. Engine was running hot oil temps due to blowby into the case from the combustion chamber.

    Might be worth borrowing an automotive tester for a quick check.

    If you have hot oil temps, I would also check the gauge, as noted above, EVEN though you just had it rebuilt. I recently bought a NEW tachometer, installed it, and it was 100 rpm off. Manufacturer's response was that was within limits. Not for me. Digital tach now, even though I don't like the things.

    Finally, the Cub has a pressure cowl. The theory is that ram air goes in the top, and is forced by baffles through the cylinder fins, and out the rear bottom outlet. Top is pressurized, bottom is exhausting. Put an opening (oil cooler, for example) in the bottom of your cowl and you pressurize the bottom of the cowl, which defeats the purpose of a pressure cowl.

    Nonetheless, Cubs work fine, as noted by others, with the oil cooler mounted up front.

    Have you checked all the lines, and double checked that the vernatherm is actually functioning correctly, and set right?

    Good luck, and here's hoping you don't have the problem I had.

    Mike Vivion

  30. #30
    murph's Avatar
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    Mike, although my engine is a fresh rebuild, with new ECI cylinders, I'm starting to fear what you have just described. I think we'll pursue your advice and see just what the compression is doing. It has been blowing lots of oil out the breather tube which would also indicate excessive blow-by. It uses about a quart per 8 hrs which seems excessive for a new rebuild. It's all starting to add up to ring problems.

    Thanks to everyone who's weighed in on this. Please keep the ideas coming. I'll get to the bottom of this sooner or later.

    murph

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  32. #32
    murph's Avatar
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    I basically ran the hell out of it, being careful to vary the power settings every few minutes for the first 5 hrs. After that, I ran the hell out of it about another 240 hrs.

    murph

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    xxxxxx

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    Murph,

    Did you observe the new vernatherm and the oil filter adapter function correctly in a pot of boiling hot water. That means close tightly at the correct temperature using a candy or digital thermometer. I have in my docs. the engineering data for the vernatherm if you could use the info. I needed a flashlght to see what was happening with the vernatherm during the test. There was an article in light plane maintanance some time back about high oil temps, I'll see if I can find it. Are you familiar with RAM baffle seal?

  35. #35

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    Hi Murph!

    I have the same upgrade and it did run hot but calmed down. On a hot Ohio day (90 degrees) I hit about 200 - 210.

    I have the stock cooler in the stock location.

    Did you have your oil cooler repaired (boiled) when you rebuilt the engine?

  36. #36
    murph's Avatar
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    Jeff:

    Tell me about RAM baffle seal.

    Rick:

    The oil temp was normal on the old engine, so I wouldn't suspect any problem with the cooler. Am I missing something?

    Thanks!

    murph

  37. #37

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    MURPH,

    Guess what, your not cooling your oil. The oil has to get the oil cooler to be cooled. All of it. Did you take the new vernatherm and the the reciever and test it on your stove. I also put a BRAND NEW VERNATHERM in my airplane only to find out it was not closing all the way. Prove to yourself with absolute certainty that the problem has nothing to do with the oil filter adapter and the new a brand new vernatherm. Did you perform a basic flow test on your oil lines and cooler with a parts washer or equal.


    your friend,

  38. #38

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    When Alaska Tire & Rubber got the STC for the Bushwheels did they have to do cooling test?

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    I would like to see the results of the STC testing for Bushwheels. Affect on climb, cruise and cooling etc.

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