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Exhaust upgrade

Frank T......round intake.

Gdafoe........."75 RPM gain with the LEES exhaust", all other things being equal..........

.......Same weight and CG. . Same prop. Same driver. Same digital prop-tach. Same takeoff surface. Same takeoff technique........tail low, stick over until a wing lifts, center ailerons without changing pitch attitude, pull flaps.

2350 RPM on a 150 HP with an 82-41 and stock exhaust Versus 2425 RPM with the LEES system. Very nearly the same relative RPM figures as data from "static" RPM test with the tail tied down. The magnetos and plugs were freshly gone through a few days before I flew the first "control" flight to determine stock exhaust performance. Maybe a fresh ignition system aids in realizing a gain, but understand that the STOCK system test run ALSO had the benefit of the fresh mags and plugs. You guys who didn't see gains might look at your ignition systems or who-knows-what-else......I'm still wondering how Kase didn't see any gains back when he tried his LEES system.
 
I know several guys who got their A&P after changing tires and checking fluids in the Air Force and having someone sign them off. I don't run to the FAA bitching. I heard they gave Dane a hard time and I can believe he has built a better exhaust. That being said I still think what he did to Sutton was Chicken Shit.
 
I had my mech call Dane about my muffler and the crack that we found and he explained in detail where it was. I in turn called Dane and told him about the crack. He mentioned that this was the first one he had ever heard about out of thousands. I asked him to send me a new muffler so that I wouldn't be down long and he would get my old cracked muffler to inspect. And i told him that I would pay for any thing he thought I should pay toward a new muffler after he looked at it since it is past warranty. My thought was if it is true that this is the first one of thousands to crack he would want to inspect it. But shipping the muf to Alaska and waiting for Dane to inspect and then send it back (new or repaired) would take a week of two of which I don't have right now. I'm in the engineering business and when we have a product failure on some new piece of equipt the co. usually sends a replacement part to help keep things going until they can sort out the problems. The only reason I brought my problems up to the web site was to see if others with the LEE exhaust were having the same problem. Not to cause trouble with Dane. I have since had my exhaust welded and have it back on the SC.
 
diggler said:
One thing to consider if you buy one of these morphadite exhaust systems is parts availability. At least with stock exhaust everybody has parts laying around for them and it not you can get one air mailed the next day.

Price of addmission? Sutton already uses had a proven system. Thats why it shouldnt of been a hassle getting it approved. If Dane is starting up a completely different unproven exhaust system he should of had to go thru more testing.
Click to expand...

For the record, I also run one of those "morphadite" Borer props.
 
Clarification

I talked with my IA about the cracked LEES systems he had mentioned earlier. Turns out it was one system that has cracked (3 times) the #1 header pipe in the bend past the exhaust flange. It might be an annomile of that paticular engine (O-360). It was not a crack in the muffler.

The story about Dane turning in PPI is way over blown. He supposedly called the local FSDO and asked why it took him over two years to get approval and it only took PPI a short time. The FAA took it from there and it got out of hand. They seemed to be on good terms when I talked with them at the show. Crash
 
My understanding is that this a congressional complaint against the FAA contesting the approval of the Sutton exhaust system, questioning it's compliance with the noise issues of FAR 36. Not a complaint to the FAA. I think there is a rather significant difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I hope the STC for the Sutton is legitimate. If it is, I plan to use a lot of ideas on other airplanes and get them approved for the Super-cub. There are all sorts of goodies that I can think of. I promise not to charge much over a fair profit for them. This is going to be great for all cub owners. It is about time the FAA lets us all do the same. If they don't, they are being bias. Precedence has been set and it can't be shut down now!
 
gdafoe said:
My understanding is that this a congressional complaint against the FAA contesting the approval of the Sutton exhaust system, questioning it's compliance with the noise issues of FAR 36. Not a complaint to the FAA. I think there is a rather significant difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Brian (PPI) was back home farming according to his dad who was manning the booth at the show. He said Dane and Brian talked for about an hour on the phone prior to the show. He said Dane told him he called the FAA back and asked them to back off but they told him it had moved up the chain and had to go through completion. Brian's dad said they just needed to do a noise test to put it to rest and felt it was no big deal. Crash
 
It's become vogue to publicly judge and criticise someone's actions without having facts to base the criticism on. This thread is better than reality TV. I'm more suspicious of the judges than the defendant.
SB
 
Hey, I'm in business, too. Let's say for a moment he did file some grievance. Was it illegal? Immoral? Unethical? Nope. The correct answer is D....none of the above. There are enough legitimate problems in the world to worry about without creating one here. It doesn't affect me. This issue is, literally, not my business.
SB
 
stewartb said:
Hey, I'm in business, too. Let's say for a moment he did file some grievance. Was it illegal? Immoral? Unethical? Nope. The correct answer is D....none of the above.
SB
Click to expand...

Opps, wrong answer, unless there actually is a problem, which I don't think is the case. If there is no actual problem then the correct answer is B & C. Or are we redefining Immoral and Unethical? But then I would suggest that the redefining of many traditional values is one of the "legitimate problems in the world to worry about".

Just my 2 cents or so.
 
War, famine, plague, poverty, racism, Supercub exhaust systems. Did I leave any out?
SB
 
Diggler, I'm thinking I should start with props. I think any prop with a proven track record on any 4 cyl Lycoming and can be adapted to a cub should be eligible. A few quick tests flights with an FAA guy and I should get the right to sell each prop to the rest of cub owners just to cover my costs for the test rides and my idea. I get to do all this with the blessings of the US goverment. Isn't America great.
 
ground loop said:
Diggler, I'm thinking I should start with props. I think any prop with a proven track record on any 4 cyl Lycoming and can be adapted to a cub should be eligible. A few quick tests flights with an FAA guy and I should get the right to sell each prop to the rest of cub owners just to cover my costs for the test rides and my idea. I get to do all this with the blessings of the US goverment. Isn't America great.
Click to expand...

I know you're being sarcastic, but in reality, I agree with you. You should be able to easily get an STC or field approval for any prop/engine combination that is already approved on another aircraft, as long as the engine mounting is the same and the aircraft has a similiar drag/thrust profile. Same for the exhaust, as long as it doesn't interfere with the Accys and controls.

this fued with LEE's is why the FAA keeps getting stricter. Every time someone comes up with a common sense approach to something, somebody has to bitch about it and the FAA only goes to the Stricter Standards to CYA.

My guess is you have a dog in this hunt or you wouldn't be ragging on PPI so much with no facts. Or is it just jealousy and envy that he found an FAA type with a little common sense?? We can't have that can we ? Lets stone em, run em out of the FAA, More beauracracy! :bad-words:
 
"Exhaust Upgrade Thread Translated into 14 Languages"
by TWN, Inc. May 20, 2004

A roller coaster ride of a thread already eclipsing the famous "censorship" thread and the "husky" thread combined has been translated into 14 different languages so people all over the world can follow it.

Know on the supercub.org site as "the thread that would not die", people seem compelled to continue the he-said / she-said debate on the subject of approvals and disapprovals of exhaust systems.

One unidentified reader commented, "One thing is very clear - that nothing is very clear". Another reader, also wishing to remain anonymous due to prospective backlash from supercub zealots, commented "Why mess up a good discussion by adding in facts?"

TWN will continue following this thread in pursuit of the truth, happiness, and to scour out the root of all evil - or maybe not.
 
The PPI folks might be exceptionally bright people, or maybe not, I don't know but they sure aren't the first ones to think of this. Mr. Cleveland, Mr. Goodyear, Mr. CubCrafter, Mr. Dodge, maybe even Mrs. Dodge and, and, and, and, and, and, well you go through the STC listings I'm sure you'll find a few others. Let's see, since this basic system is used on some 60 other aviation applications maybe there are 60 others that thought of it before Mr. PPI. Wonder if they all have an Uncle in the FAA. :roll: I suppose that Mr. Flying Pig, who seems to have an inside source to FAA info, might be able to do a little research and lets us know. There probably are lots of folks in the FAA that are Uncles and maybe even quite a few that are Aunts. :crazyeyes:
 
Steve,
I must have pushed the submit button about the same time you did. We were getting close to the record so it just had to keep going a while longer. I don't know when I've contributed to heavily to so much foolishness. You see. when I grow up I want to be like Diggler. whoever he is :lol: Getting close to 15K views. Whew I'm feeling exhausted.
 
I'm thinking of calling the business STC's R US. My primary business isn't aviation, but that doesn't matter. I won't be manufacturing anything I sell but that doesn't matter. I won't be able to repair it myself, but that doesn't matter. I need to invest very little, that is the beauty of the concept. The only limitataion is finding the right FAA guy to help me, and when I do I will be everybodies best friend!
 
Gerald,

If everybody had all the facts with no speculation, this would have been a one post thread that no one responded to. It has sparked some interesting debate. I appreciate the fact that we can disagree here without too much name calling, it makes for interesting reading.

It is the record holding thread... Although the husky thread was close..

sj
 
What are the facts and what is the speculation? From the last posts it sounds like someone is speculating that Brian has an Uncle in the FAA and doesn't manufacture anything or repair it. Dane called the FAA but then recanted. Sounds like the makings of a good reality show.
 
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