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Thread: vortex generators

  1. #121
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    Wayne makes a good point, but it's really the only negative I can think of.
    vg's really really really really suck if you fly into freezing rain. Especially if you think its not to far to the other side and you keep going. Other than that they are great. Hot water and antifreeze will get the huge globs off if you are luck enough to make it down in on piece.
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  2. #122
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    Hi Jerry. With enough goofy hanger talk, we can flush out the guys who really know what's going on... I'm wondering what effect the elevator gap has on the whole phenomenon ... the darn thing is basically a flying plank, so I don't expect much from it and I don't have to fly like the BP guys do, so I don't... (and am therefore not disappointed) if they were trying to keep the whole stabilizer from stalling, then the vg's wouldn't be back along the gap, right?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Anybody know if there was really a smaller horiz tail on the Husky once, or is that more misinfo I need to drain out of my brain pan?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Bloodied myself on another vg today, as a matter of fact...

  3. #123
    Jerry Burr's Avatar
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    Ice

    Hi SD2. If you will send me a picture of the ice you are referring to I will send you a gift cert for dinner anywhere you choose. The deal only applies to Micros. I tested them several times and built large accumulations of ice on all of the leading edges and windshield and there was no ice on the V.G.'s. With the exception of water droplets that had rolled up the leading edge and froze as a little round ball where ever it contacted a V.G.. From my pictures I would guess there was an ice ball every 10 or 12 V.G.'s. They were 1/4 to 1/2 the height of the V.G. Take Care. Jerry B.

    Hi Fobjob. The stab/elev is a plank until you bend it in the middle as on the tail of a Cub. Then they would be mounted in front of the thickest section of the wing or in this case ahead of the hinges. If you can plug the gap so the much better. Any leak through diminishes the effectiveness of the airfoil. Jerry B.

  4. #124
    SuperCub MD's Avatar
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    I had ice built out over the VG's once. I was very concerned about the approach and landing, held a little extra speed and it was a non event. I was lightly loaded and the ice was clear and smooth except for some cool looking frozen wave patterns behind the VG's. All ice and conditions are not the same so your results may vary... I took pics of the ice but remember it not showing up real well, I don't know where the pics are but I could try to dig them up if there is a free meal in it...
    I was landing in a tight spot so the windshield was a bigger issue. I flew with my knees, keeping one hand in my armpit and the other rubbing a spot on the windshield, alternating hands when the one on the windshield got cold. I managed to keep a small spot clear. The long and loose rear seat heat tube was installed shortly after this experience.

  5. #125
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    What Crash Said, ~~

    I have a machinist friend burdened in life with a genius aptitude when it comes to mechanical things. He designed a VG made of a single piece of aluminum, got the arc for the curvature of the wing just right and the angles aimed and at the proper height, on the tail they are flat but still made out of a single piece of metal, he made the dies and stamps them out hundreds at a time. He gave me a set to try out all I had to do was report my impression of them.....First thing I did was go up a ways and tried a full power on stall, good hell my mild mannered little stuporcub turned into a raging beast bent on killing me....when it stalled the nose flipped instantly right at the ground and the left wing dropped first...does this ring any bells to anyone that has ever flown a Husky with Micro's and done full power stalls? Exact same thing....I took them off and am still happy with my zero aileron authority (I just use a little rudder at slow speeds) old cub.
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  6. #126
    Jerry Burr's Avatar
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    Test Pilot

    Hi Capt Hazard. If you're going to play test pilot you have to expect that sort of thing. Actually sounds like you ran out of right rudder. Jerry B.

    Hi MD. Same deal. Jerry B. send to flycubs@pioneernet.net
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  7. #127
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    I have micro VG's on my experimental Supercub (just the wing not the tail). I have them on my experimental Maule also (on the wing and on the tail). I am always knocking them off on the tail on the Maule so I decided not to put them on the tail of the cub (not really sure how much they help on the tail).

    I like VG's a lot, I flew both airplanes without for more then 100 hours in each before applying these nifty aluminum parts. It has been over a 1100 hours since I put them on the Maule but I do remember how much better the airplane felt at lower speeds, the speeds I play and land at every time I fly.

    Because the cub was new to me and I wanted to know just what it does at high angles of attack I took the cub to altitude and did stalls (I would do this in any airplane I was going to play in), I then spent a bunch of time playing around just a few feet off the ground landing on a sandy beach. I would hold it off and try to fly down the beach at an angle that I would not normally land at but at this attitude it would pay off every time either stalling the right wing or left wing before I wanted it to. I installed the VG kit and this nasty little tendency went away completely. Some of you may say my cub is different then a stock cub and that is true in some ways but the VG's do work and I would not have a STOL airplane without them.

    Will they make a bad pilot good, NO. Will they make a good pilot better, NO. I believe they could be a small safety margin though, do I rely on them to save my bacon NO. I like what they do for the airplanes I fly, I fly both my airplanes based on my skill level and when I climb into someone else's airplane I have to find the lower end of the envelope before I can get to crazy in it. Every airplane is a little different and you need to know what the difference's are.

    Greg

  8. #128
    StewartB
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    I think I'll put Micro's on the 12 next time I roll it in a hangar. I had always intended to but never got around to it. The guys I admire most in Cubs use them and recommend them. That's good enough. But the real kicker? I hear they make slipping wing covers on a pain. Well, the biggest problem I have with wing covers is that they slide off as I'm putting them on. Maybe the VGs will help with that.

    SB

  9. #129
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    Re: Ice

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Burr
    Hi SD2. If you will send me a picture of the ice you are referring to I will send you a gift cert for dinner anywhere you choose. The deal only applies to Micros.
    Dang Jerry, Now you tell me I didn't have a camera with me, and I will guarantee you there was lots of ice on and around the vortex generators. If you fly in freezing rain long enough, it will stick to everything.

    And I'm not about to go do it again even for 2 free dinners.

    we used a lot of RV antifreeze to get the wings cleaned off so we could put the covers on, and all the scraping around the VG.s was done by hand with some old Handy Andy gloves on. -- Every one, not just a couple.
    Brian


    I think the phrase " everytime someone comes up with an idiot proof design, the world comes up with better idiots" applies here
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  10. #130

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    Vortex generators

    Dear All
    i have a 1956 PA-18A supercub. I am considering putting on vortex generators. I’m told it improves safety by offering better handling. Lower stall speeds and better efficiency. Thoughts on vortex generators? Yes/no
    is there a schlep factor with the vortex generators falling off etc. I know there is a STC available. Which company offers the best product
    regards from johannesburg South Africa. 36 degrees Celsius heat wave
    regards Frank

  11. #131
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    Dear All
    i have a 1956 PA-18A supercub. I am considering putting on vortex generators. I’m told it improves safety by offering better handling. Lower stall speeds and better efficiency. Thoughts on vortex generators? Yes/no
    is there a schlep factor with the vortex generators falling off etc. I know there is a STC available. Which company offers the best product
    regards from johannesburg South Africa. 36 degrees Celsius heat wave
    regards Frank
    I merged your thread with several threads on the same subject. Some very good information. If you have more time put this in a Google search VGs vortex generators site:supercub.org
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    You putting them on your 180?

  14. #134
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Already has a Horton STOL and VGs.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    You putting them on your 180?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  15. #135

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    Nice. When's it going to fly?
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  16. #136
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Hopefully before I croak! Every day is another bite of the elephant. Hanging the overhauled engine this week.
    There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Just hope it's not an oncoming train!


    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Nice. When's it going to fly?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  17. #137
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    I installed micro VG's on a PA-20 original Pacer and it made a noticeable difference in take off performance. As for stall etc, I'm not smart enough to tell the difference. It felt great, and really helped the short wing. I have Micro VG's on 2 Huskies and had them on my last PA-12. Too many operations from big airports. If you've got the money go
    for it. If its a stretch, why bother? Buy gas.

  18. #138
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    Been reading through another current thread about the effects of CG and CL. The use of flaps effectively moves the CL forward causing the nose to rise according to the discussion. What effect on the CL do VGs produce if any?
    "Always looking up"

  19. #139
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    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...G-Installation

    Check out this thread for VG installation. I think VGs are one of the best safety devices you can add to an airplane.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKy2ZEoRSZg This video is me trying to spin my Cub after installation. It was much more difficult to spin.

  20. #140
    Ruffair's Avatar
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    They enhance control in the slow lane.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "...We're fast enough to get there, But slow enough to see..."
    Fron the song "Barometer Soup". By Jimmy Buffett
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