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Thread: New tailwheel pilot

  1. #1
    YoungCub's Avatar
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    New tailwheel pilot

    In June of 2017 I got my Tailwheel endorsement and didn't rack up a whole lot of hours (15ish) over about a month. Now fast forward a year and some odd months to this past Saturday.... I finally rented and got back in the dreaded Champ and did a checkout with a different instructor. Although both these instructors taught the 2-point landing virtually the same. The way they taught the 3-point landing seemed worlds apart.

    The first instructor I flew with taught the 3-point in a way that seemed to be more similar to a normal landing in a trike. A normal roundout power cut about 10 feet above the ground finally transitioning to the 3-point attitude (after quite a float down the runway) for the touchdown.

    The second instructor scared me when he told me to begin the roundout. Power cut we were about 20-30 feet above the runway(very unnatural feeling for a prominent tricycle gear pilot). Anyways, we didn't stay in the roundout for long as it was a continuous transition to a high 3-point attitude. Now at touchdown I was very pleased at how soft and short the landing was.

    Now having learned this new method for the 3-point landing. What can somebody tell me about their method to the 3-point landing if it resembles either of these? Is there a situation to choose one over the other? Im really just looking for some insight from people who have far more experience and can lend some good information.

    Also, I want to build time in the champ and eventually move into something for more of a Backcountry setting. I am in Northwestern MN and aside from taking my buddies up for a joy ride...Does anyone have any good insight for what a guy can go do with a Champ that I rent. Maybe just sticking to the joy rides until a move into something a little more robust. I feel like I'm asking a lot, but anything would help. thanks.
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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Try a higher glide without power and let gavity bring you in. I find a flatter approach with power makes it harder to do a good landing

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    Champs are great planes. You can do bunches with them... but first fly her for 100 hours before you get out in the brush. You need to know the plane very well, and what different weights will do for the plane.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Try a higher glide without power and let gavity bring you in. I find a flatter approach with power makes it harder to do a good landing

    Glenn
    I agree. I fly a very steep low power approach with a quick flare. My tail wheel is always low but not touching until last second, especialy in rough terrain. This teqnique is also nice so you dont have a long float fighting a crosswind for a long way.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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    JP's Avatar
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    Novels can be written, but the basic plot line for a short, sweet landing might go like this:

    1. Stabilize your approach as early as practical
    2. As slow as you can go under the circumstances is better
    3. The backside of the power curve can be your friend
    4. Practice brings enlightenment
    5. When in doubt, don't--better another try than a final try
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com
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    Youngcub, where is your trim set for your approach and subsequent touchdown?

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    Youngcub, I was taught to land a taildragger by using no power, gliding to touchdown from stabilized approach. Sixty-two years later, mostly all float-flying in short spaces, mostly from sentiment of those earlier memories, I do the same thing, acknowledging that power can achieve wonderful landings although dragging with power over hostile terrain is less safe. "You're dragging, Dad," is the usual refrain from my son, a retired corporate chief pilot, so he may think the same thing.
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    I see folks who successfully start an early flare. The more common technique is to keep the nose down until just a few feet above the runway, then flare.

    I agree with all the above. Practice power off approaches at constant airspeed. Avoid "dragging it in." Get good at slow flight, and learn approaches at slower than 60. Practice in crosswinds. Stay on airports until 100 pattern hours = 1000 landings, minimum.
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  9. #9
    YoungCub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1934A View Post
    Youngcub, where is your trim set for your approach and subsequent touchdown?
    Neutral
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  10. #10

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    Try a couple landings with your trim set almost all the way nose up. This will give you more elevator to work with, you'll be holding the stick forward as you're coming in, then just let it come back as you start your flare, as you get slower and slower as close to the ground as you can hold it, you'll settle to the ground without hardly realizing it. I always fly my approach at idle if I'm making a three point landing. Take it for what it's worth....
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  11. #11
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    He's in a Champ, fixed stabilizer

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    I, like King Brown was taught to close the throttle when abeam the landing spot. Only pushing up the throttle a couple of times during the approach to "clear" the engine. Adjust the size of your traffic pattern depending on the wind conditions. When you use any amount of power during the approach you will find that your feel of the plane in pitch will drastically change when you close the throttle to land. If you close the throttle for the entire approach, your pitch feel and control will be stable. You will only need to compensate for winds and runway alignment.

    Sometime during the 60s instructors started drifting away from the old school method by teaching the drag it around the pattern method. This changed the size of the patterns to a point where you couldn't make the field at all if the engine should stop running which was the primary reason for method which I described. As the airplane which you fly get bigger and heavier you will need to make adjustments to your power usage. In the meantime you are flying a Champ, learn to let the airplane do the flying with only your guidance to the destination. Pretend that the engine stops working on every landing. Fly the plane, not the engine.

    I learned to fly in a 65 hp Aeronca 7AC. It taught me how to stay out of trouble and prepared me to gradually work my way up to higher performing flying machines. Both of your instructors need to learn how to fly an airplane's wing.
    N1PA
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  13. #13
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I, like King Brown was taught to close the throttle when abeam the landing spot. Only pushing up the throttle a couple of times during the approach to "clear" the engine. Adjust the size of your traffic pattern depending on the wind conditions. When you use any amount of power during the approach you will find that your feel of the plane in pitch will drastically change when you close the throttle to land. If you close the throttle for the entire approach, your pitch feel and control will be stable. You will only need to compensate for winds and runway alignment.

    Sometime during the 60s instructors started drifting away from the old school method by teaching the drag it around the pattern method. This changed the size of the patterns to a point where you couldn't make the field at all if the engine should stop running which was the primary reason for method which I described. As the airplane which you fly get bigger and heavier you will need to make adjustments to your power usage. In the meantime you are flying a Champ, learn to let the airplane do the flying with only your guidance to the destination. Pretend that the engine stops working on every landing. Fly the plane, not the engine.

    I learned to fly in a 65 hp Aeronca 7AC. It taught me how to stay out of trouble and prepared me to gradually work my way up to higher performing flying machines. Both of your instructors need to learn how to fly an airplane's wing.
    I learned in a 65 HP Chief and was taught the same way. Then went on to Champs, T Crafts, and Cubs and flew them all the same way. Don't imagine there are many old school type instructors around any more.
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    Same here, I fly a L-4 out of Hampton 7B3. Carb heat on at mid field, power off a beam the numbers, 6 turns back (nose up) on the trim, turn to base, line it up. To high slip, to low a little power to get back on the glide. Taught by an old school instructor.
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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Confusius say, gravity always reliable, engine, not so much!

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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    New tailwheel pilot

    Okay, so I am also still figuring it all out in a PA-12. Three points are great and wheels are fun too. When should each be used in terms of crosswinds and off airport? I hear wheels are for high crosswind and off airport. I can say I read a great post a few weeks back and definitely recommend wheelies (single wheel and dual), duck wags, S turns while taxiing, power off, full flap, no-flap and other fun stuff to improve your skill and feel of the plane. I have had five instructors, on purpose, and each one has taught me something new. I am learning in Alaska and have seen some amazing pilots that know their plane and would love to be a tenth as good as they are.


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  17. #17
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    I do both on every landing. What your instructors taught you is great for getting the airplane down safe. Our folks taught us to walk, but now we can also jump, skip, run, and go backwards (on a good day). I land from a steep low power approach with a quick flare (and slip if a good x wind). I land tail low (almost full 3 point) and bring the tail up just far enough to eliminate or reduce any mechanical (no floating) bounce. This style approach makes x wind an almost non event because of the very short of time being vulnerable. Also landing on centerline teaches you to track straight and spot land. In a strong x wind i always land and take off on the downwind side of the runway. This type of approach and landing also sets you up for landing over obsticals. Anyway, im not an instructor just what works for me. I found some good videos once. Ill try to post them if i can find them.
    One other thing i do unorthadox is carry a bit of forward trim. That way in off field scenarios, if the tail flies up on you, you are already still holding back pressure, not trying to go from stick forward to stick back. Anyway just my $.02.
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  18. #18
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/J4NnmbbSizQ
    https://youtu.be/CrPJac80W9Y

    Heres a couple good videos anyway.

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    I have been flying a cub for about three years and only landed with power off if I was coming in too hot. After reading this thread I went up this morning and used the techniques described above, and it really worked well. When landing on 15 I can divert to an open field if the engine quits, but coming in on 33 there are few options for me. I am excited to practice power off landings and get some skill in hitting the mark without having to drag it in, especially in open fields without familiar reference points. The idea of an engine out during landing has been in the back of my mind, but while training on a 172 and training for my tail wheel endorsement I was taught to keep some power in on final, so it became habit, especially since it was much easier to hit the numbers by using some power. It is time for me to step it up a notch.
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  20. #20
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Congratulations Rich, you have moved up a notch over your instructors who apparently never really learned how to fly.
    N1PA
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  21. #21
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    I flew with my roommate today, before the snow hit up here in ND. Great flight... and on my way back the Favored runway was 13 which is pavement (120@3)
    As a new tailwheel pilot as of last year and with 1 hour of landing practice this year(on grass). I decided for the straight in landing on 17 which is grass and thats what I felt comfortable with. The traffic pattern had 2 planes using paved. I opted for the extended base and final to allow separation. My approach ended up being shallow with too much forward speed. I understand my mistake and how to correct... but My question is... is there a level of disrespect with taking off or landing on a non-favored runway? (Even with great communication)

    Thanks to all that have responded to my original post. Im sorry if I keep asking for more... just a newer pilot here with a couple questions


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    Once it is your turn to land then you do whatever it takes to make a safe landing!!!(everybody else is your bitch) That would include landing on taxiway, infield grass, gravel shoulder, or with tailwind due to sun. It is not that hard to work around a single aircraft that may want a different runway. Once you get proficient and feel safe then you can take a less preferred, but SAFE runway. We have a busy airport dirt and tar strips with lots of new pilots training, helicopters, salty old bush pilots, 747 pattern pilots, pilots that don't talk on radio, and a nonstandard pattern. I would not expect a new taildragger pilot to take any wind on the tail just to avoid the sun, or avoid long taxi, but, that is what most all the seasoned pilots do. The bottom line is do what you need to do to get er done!!! When you get to be a old taildragger pilot just remember back when you knew nothing and some new guy comes in and screws up the pattern. I just smile and think "ya I have done that".
    DENNY
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  23. #23
    Taledrger's Avatar
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    At the risk of being ostracized, I have a different take on all of this... honestly when I am flying my Cub or nearly any other SEL airplane I reduce the power to idle abem the threshold and target the touch down zone. If I screw up I add a little power or perhaps slip to cover my error.. doesn't happen much..

    on the other hand ... when I'm instructing I require my students to "initially" fly a "stabilized" approach. 1000agl on downwind, 800agl/80mph abeam threshold, 600agl/70mph 45 from the threshold, 400agl/65mph turning final, 55mph over the fence.. on final target a touchdown marker.. in a timely fashion, flare and power completely off after the fence..land 3 point..

    Each of these points is a gate, the student learns at every gate. If you pull the power abeam and dead stick to the runway you have one gate, or one learning point. It takes a lot of trips around the pattern to learn with one learn point.. as a student progresses they learn how to manage the pattern under almost all situations...

    I've gone round and round with many of the old sages about the difference between teaching and flying... some understand it ..some don't...
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  24. #24

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    I use a power on approach until landing, wheel landing and three point it gives me much better control and will allow for a shorter landing, 1400-1600 rpm adjust as needed (I seldom 3 point because a wheel or tail low landing gives you so much more). I prefer a steep approach, you can do it even with power on, it just takes practice (pitch for speed, power for elevation). I know, and understand, the practice of a power off approach is important, in a typical one hour cross country flight at 1,000 ft AGL 99 percent of the time you would not make it to a runway unless one was on your path. So my advice to young pilots is based on how to pick a good crash site. Stay calm, do checklist, best glide, and aim for the best color you can find, don't look for a specific spot just color. This time of year for us Gray = sand, shale, dry grass, or lichen Red = 1-2 ft high bush, Yellow 4-8 ft bush or aspen, Light green grass is usually very wet. dark green grass is usually good. Dark green trees are hard all the time. Once you find a good color spot to crash, get to it. Then just set in in as slow as possible and don't worry about hurting the plane. Once down call the insurance company and tell them the location of their plane, IA's need to the work. The best thing about teaching people to do a power off approach is they tend not to do a 747 pattern!!! A trick for 3 point (or any type) is set up straight in the plane with back straight, put a mark on wind screen right at the top of the cowl. When you flare, sit up straight, if the cowl is above the mark it will be tail first, if below it will be a wheel landing, if on the mark a 3 point. Works power off or power on. The big thing is to keep learning!! Once you figure out how to do one type of landing, learn another, then another, never stop trying to learn something new.
    DENNY
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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    I have a little meneuver i like to do to challenge my cabilities (coordination). If anyone is actualy interested i will elaberate. When i fly with someone, i do not care if they get close to a stall attitude. Even low level. What scares me is when they are uncoordinated. Thats when the stall/spin happens unknowingly.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub Special Ed View Post
    I have a little meneuver i like to do to challenge my cabilities (coordination). If anyone is actualy interested i will elaberate. When i fly with someone, i do not care if they get close to a stall attitude. Even low level. What scares me is when they are uncoordinated. Thats when the stall/spin happens unknowingly.
    Okay, I am curious as I do struggle a bit with coordinated flight. I am conscious of it but I don’t quite have that feel yet.



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  27. #27
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Dutch rolls are a good exercise to mate your ars to a new seat

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  28. #28
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub Special Ed View Post
    I have a little meneuver i like to do to challenge my cabilities (coordination). If anyone is actualy interested i will elaberate. When i fly with someone, i do not care if they get close to a stall attitude. Even low level. What scares me is when they are uncoordinated. Thats when the stall/spin happens unknowingly.
    Rumor has it uncoordinated turns make the Gunner shoot better. Not sure if it's just psychological or plain fear that does it.

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    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
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  29. #29
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-12 on Baumanns View Post
    Okay, I am curious as I do struggle a bit with coordinated flight. I am conscious of it but I don’t quite have that feel yet.
    On wheels or on your floats? If on floats, do you have a ventral fin? If not, put one on.
    N1PA

  30. #30

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    I want to thank everybody for this fantastic thread. I'm new to my SC, with 90 wheel landings so far, trying to get a sense of how to do this well. I have been coming in fast (75 on final and over the numbers) with neutral trim and no flaps. Lots of floating involved with this, so I am avoiding crosswind days so far. My long term goal is short landings, but that can wait.

    I'm full of questions at this stage and I need opinions! If I'm going to trim nose up, how many turns should I use in a SC? What's a good recommended speed over the numbers? Until I get more experience should I focus on coming in with power or not? I'd also really like to hear more stories of how everyone else handles gusty crosswinds before and after touchdown. I also have never heard anybody here or on youtube talk about the way the rudder control feels different before and after tailwheel touchdown, but it makes me feel uneasy. How do you know when it's OK to use brakes? When should I start adding flap landings to what I'm doing?
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  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Dutch rolls are a good exercise to mate your ars to a new seat

    Glenn
    A old cropduster introduced me to dutch rolls... i think one ptoblem some have with xwind landings is that coordinated flight is drummed into our training and the moment we apply opposite input the brain overloads with “ this dont feel right”


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  32. #32
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    The one single problem I always run into with modern day
    taught pilots is horrible coordinated turns from DEAD feet.
    Their idea of the centerline in your crotch, is compleatly different than mine. Drifting and skidding all over the place and overcontroling the ailerons in gusty wind drives
    me whaco........ Anyone taught to fly on conventional gear
    Always seam to have ALOT better flying technique in our assessment over the years. I am with Glen the moment
    I see this I am having them introduced to Dutch Rolls pronto. Probably to old fashioned but cant imagine a pilot
    With 40hrs TT not being able to land their airplane with NO
    power from pattern altitude. Omg.
    E
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  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    On wheels or on your floats? If on floats, do you have a ventral fin? If not, put one on.
    It is on wheels. I am going to have my mechanic and some friends fly it to see if it is me or the plane ($$).


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  34. #34
    JP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee View Post
    I want to thank everybody for this fantastic thread. I'm new to my SC, with 90 wheel landings so far, trying to get a sense of how to do this well. I have been coming in fast (75 on final and over the numbers) with neutral trim and no flaps. Lots of floating involved with this, so I am avoiding crosswind days so far. My long term goal is short landings, but that can wait.

    I'm full of questions at this stage and I need opinions! If I'm going to trim nose up, how many turns should I use in a SC? What's a good recommended speed over the numbers? Until I get more experience should I focus on coming in with power or not? I'd also really like to hear more stories of how everyone else handles gusty crosswinds before and after touchdown. I also have never heard anybody here or on youtube talk about the way the rudder control feels different before and after tailwheel touchdown, but it makes me feel uneasy. How do you know when it's OK to use brakes? When should I start adding flap landings to what I'm doing?
    A couple of ideas (and an encyclopedia could be written on your excellent questions).

    First, learn to fly slow. Real slow. Just above stall. Practice descents at altitude in different attitudes. Without power. With power. Then start practicing three point landings with no float. With and without flaps. With and without power. With and without wind on your nose when landing. Get comfortable in all the varieties as landings come in all varieties. The only cardinal rule is that a stable final approach usually leads to a decent landing. There is no shame in going around, ever.

    Next, start adding crosswinds. Your senses will have memorized what a slow, stable approach feels like and you will add a wee bit of airspeed -- but not much -- for the wind. Make the corrections for the crosswind and hold them in. You will be making full deflections with your hands and feet when the air is tossy. Little bursts of power become your friend. But you can still land slow and with full control. And once all three are planted with no float hold full deflections and carefully brake. I am of the school that the slower you can land, the less damage you can do.....
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com
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  35. #35

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    With Special Ed casting so many pearls before us, I almost missed one. Using a little too much forward trim takes the slop out of the elevator circuit or stick base. You can play around what used to be the neutral point without the overcontrol that results from banging against the edges of the slop. I discovered this trying to manage the first few moments of a sailplane tow. There isn't enough airspeed to feel the edges, so I run the trim fwd and pull with my fingertips.
    What's a go-around?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee View Post
    I want to thank everybody for this fantastic thread. I'm new to my SC, with 90 wheel landings so far, trying to get a sense of how to do this well. I have been coming in fast (75 on final and over the numbers) with neutral trim and no flaps. Lots of floating involved with this, so I am avoiding crosswind days so far. My long term goal is short landings, but that can wait.

    I'm full of questions at this stage and I need opinions! If I'm going to trim nose up, how many turns should I use in a SC? What's a good recommended speed over the numbers? Until I get more experience should I focus on coming in with power or not? I'd also really like to hear more stories of how everyone else handles gusty crosswinds before and after touchdown. I also have never heard anybody here or on youtube talk about the way the rudder control feels different before and after tailwheel touchdown, but it makes me feel uneasy. How do you know when it's OK to use brakes? When should I start adding flap landings to what I'm doing?
    First, you need to slow down on final. 75 is just goofy fast. As JP suggested, do some air work, flying the airplane right at minimum controllable airspeed, till you get a good feel for slow flight. I’m not suggesting you fly final at that slow a speed, the point of this and lots of stalls is to give you a feel for the plane.

    Second, USE those flaps. You need to be proficient with and without, but initially you want to be slow, till you get a feel for the evolution of landing. Depending on your comfort level, 55 or so indicated on SHORT final should work fine. With flaps there won’t be much float. Some folks like to roll in some nose down trim on short final. Flare, kill any power, touch with the tail an inch or so off the surface, relax the back pressure you were holding against nose down trim, and the plane will naturally roll up onto the mains. Stick just a bit forward to hold the tail up.

    Dont mess with brakes much till you’re really proficient with these tail low wheel landings. Then EASE your way into gentle braking. Believe me, if you touch down at MCA you won’t need much braking unless you’re REALLY somewhere sketchy.

    Only time I land with half or no flaps is in GUSTY crosswinds. Steady crosswinds don’t really require anything special. GUSTY requires a bit of extra speed and less flap helps.

    Finally, the difference in stall speed between flap and no flap in a cub isn’t huge. So even no flap approaches neednt be at 75.

    Get a lot of slow flight under your belt FIRST, all configutations, THEN work on landings.

    MTV
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  37. #37
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Years ago, Bill White of insurance fame wrote a very good article on how to wheel land a skywagon.

    This technique is not necessarily gospel, but it's sure a good place to start.
    IMHO the technique works well in other airplanes, if you adjust the speeds mentioned appropriately.
    He suggests 60 knots (70 mph) on final, I'd say knock off at least 10 mph for a cub.
    It's a 2 page article, but here is the crux of it:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  38. #38
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-12 on Baumanns View Post
    Okay, I am curious as I do struggle a bit with coordinated flight. I am conscious of it but I don’t quite have that feel yet.



    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    What i do, and i suspect it will probably catch flack is: start out in slow flight, then with out touching the power, drop nose to build a little speed, then pitch up and roll into a steep bank and make a 180° turn. If you are uncoordinted or in too shallow of a bank youll never make a 180° reversel. As others have said, dutch roll the heck out of it first. Not worried about airspeed and altitude (to the extent you dont smack the ground). Just coordination. If you do it right and smooth you wont pull any more than a slight g on the round out. Basicaly a modified low power canyon turn or wingover. Helps me keep up on flying the wing and proper use of my feet. And its fun. On a flapped plane, start with one notch and grab the second notch when you need to drop the nose about mid turn. This works real well on my dads cherokee. Ps: only 2 requirements to complete this meneuver, make it 180° and dont die!

    Disclaimer: Im not an instructor nor is this instruction.
    Last edited by Cub Special Ed; 10-16-2018 at 01:04 PM.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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  39. #39
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    Rumor has it uncoordinated turns make the Gunner shoot better. Not sure if it's just psychological or plain fear that does it.

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    Not sure. But I know taking the safety off sure does help!
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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  40. #40

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    I would agree with the others, you need to slow down. Go up to 3-4 grand AGL and get a feel for how and when the plane stalls with full flaps. Should be around 40 mph give or take. Stay up high and do some slow flight 10 mph above stall speed. Do this every time you fly for 5-10 min and you will feel much better about slowing down. I also recommend spin training if you have not done so yet!!
    For trim I would recommend simply trim for airspeed. keep it simple as you turn base then final don't use your stick to slow down just roll back the trim you need to reach the airspeed you want. I usually use lots if not full nose up trim myself, but, that is not what you need at this time.
    As far as when to use brakes. I strongly advise to use them whenever you need them on both takeoff and landing. I would always have my heels over the pedal on both takeoff and landing. A cub is very forgiving, but if the rudder is not doing the job a quick stab on the brake will keep you going straight. Using brakes to help with directional control should be second nature when you start off runway operations. Things that will get you in trouble with the brakes is getting on both brakes hard to try to stop short. Alternate the pressure from one side to the other if you are hitting them hard it will actually wag your tail a bit when you do it right, and it is very hard to flip doing that. The other thing is try not to lock a brake and pivot the plane on bushwheels!! This is a great way to scrub off rubber on tar and cut the tire on rocks/shale/stubble. As Mike pointed out when you slow you landing down your really won't need much braking.
    Spin training gave me the confidence to properly stall and slow my aircraft down. I would say it was the most helpful thing I did for STOL operations.
    DENNY
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