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Experimental Cubs & Extreme Stol Devices, Flaps,slats,sl

Wayne Mackey

Registered User
Miles City Montana 406 232 1370
I would like to get a thead going for the exper. cubs and such that deals with all the
products available out there,what has been done, what is being worked on and
what has been the gained or lost. I build several different mods. and would like to
see what else is avalible. I'm always interested in new ideas and ways. There is
always a science and art to the building and flying of this sort.
Happy days on the drawing board. Wayne
 
Yes, let's hear what people are building - don't be shy. There was a posting with some replies last spring where people talked about the Dakota Coyote and its slatted wing (yours, Wayne?) but I cannot find it anymore on this site. Why was it removed?
It is -10F and we got a foot of snow the last few days. Skis are going on shortly.

Hans
 
Super stol

Hans, Yes the Dakota Coyote 1 and 2 have my slats and droopy ailerons on them
and #3 has no slat but has very large flaps with droop ailerons. Jerry Burr has
photos of some of this and I will try to get them on this thread. Also super long gear
with the axles moved ahead so we can get on the brakes and not tip up so easy.
These are on Denny Martel's cub along with the slats. Wayne
 
Spoilers on cub

I'm trying to collect information on spoiler devices on cub type airfoils used both in
decent and roll. I'm installing them on my own plane and they will be linked with my
ailerons. looking at placement and size? Sumner Putmon had them on his pa 14
in the mid 70's and they were very affective. Thanks for any help or idea's.

Wayne
 
Wayne:
Just a thought. Wonder how the speed brakes STCed for Cessnas would work? They are flush until you push button, then they flop up into the airstream just like the ones on the Airliners.
 
The Taylorcraft L-2 and the glider version of the J-3 (the TG-8) both had spoilers.
I have heard of several restored L-2's that still have them and there are only 2 TG-8's still in existance (in glider configuration) that I know of. One has been restored and is in a museum, the other is in bare bones condition owned by Steve Butler of Souix City, IA.
I have seen Steve's TG-8 and it only has the incomplete remains of the spoiler system still installed.

John
 
Spoilers

The spoilers on Sumners 14 as I remember were about 4 feet in from the tip and
hinged up right behind the spar. They were about 4" x 24" and came up in one
quick movement. The first 1" of up travel made lift, so the quick pass though this
portion of travel was needed. They would give great desent and when released
instant recovery. Wayne
 
Spoilers

The Wagaero 2+2 which is a modified Pa 14 has in their plans the building, placement and rigging of spoilers. Dale
 
Thanks Dale, More like this
I had some pics. a while back showing a yellow SC with full span flaps and spiolers
just in front of flap. No info though. Wayne
 
spoilers

John,

In the L-2M we got flying again last summer, the spoilers had been removed. I think when they certified them for civilian use the spoilers had to come off.

MD said that he thought he could get approval to reinstall 'em. The only concern I would have is that the design is 100% reliable. When I want them off - they better work and pronto!

Brad
 
Spoilers

Thanks Brad, I have the same worrys. The ones I flew with on the pa14 had a sping
return and i don't know how much tention required. Wayne
 
Spoilers

The Wag-Aero plans show two 16inX3-1/2in spoilers per wing with the spoiler attach brackets 6-1/8in back from the front spar. One each top and bottom chord, linked. They're not too specific about spring tension as the plans say "Return Spring, Standard Hardware Store Item".
 
spoilers

Thanks Russ, They must be working as an air brake too with the bottom set.
I have to have mine farther forward to work at spoiling the lift caused by the
leading edge slat. Do you know if the 2+2 uses them in the roll process like the
ailerons. Wayne
 
Spoilers

The 2+2 uses the spoilers for slowing and braking not roll assist. A real good example of roll assist spoilerons is the setup Byron Root uses on the Sherpa.
 
A friend of mine just bought a set of those strap on slats. Will report on the results when he gets flying with them.
 
Brad,

The last thing I want to do is make an issue of something that is of little relevence to this thread but...

The Taylorcraft L-2M owned by my friend Terry Fisher has operating spoilers. Being a pilot for UslessAirways and the uncertanties therein Terry advertised the plane on Barnstormers (posting Dec. 7, 2002 with pictures) and the ad verifies that the plane has operating spoilers.

John
 
Wayne, The L2M has spoilers about mid-wing, near the main spar, activated by a level under the left side of the instrument panel. Originally, when the L2M's were decommitioned, the spoilers were deactivated, however I think some have had them reapproved. These were pop up glider style spoilers. You may also want to look at current use gliders. Most, if not all, have some type of spoiler system, you may get some ideas there. The pneumatic speed brakes used on Moonies, and other go-fast stuff may be worth a look also. My big concern with spoilers of anykind is ice and snow freezing them up, rain always gets in. The elements play hell with them, and they can be a real pain in the ass, maintenance wise.
 
Mark, Thanks for the info. I spent many years in alaska and have respect for the ice
problem. Worked in the comm. fish boat industry for years with alum. and ice
and came up with recessed hinges that have nylon bushings. The spoiler will not
make contact on any surface. Wayne ps. really like your paint on cub.
 
Wayne, I have spoilers on my 2+2 and here's my opinon. To use them for decent to land you have to be 10 miles faster than without them being deployed. When you flair to land you are 10 miles an hour faster and use up more runway. I can come down just as fast if I put the plane into a full slip, 10 miles an hour slower with no spoilers. When I flare or stick it on the mains I'm able to stop shorter. I do use them 0nce in a while if I screw up and have to much altitude on final, I just put them on for a few seconds to lose some. The only other use they have is taxeing in the wind, they spoil some lift.

Tim
2+2
 
Spoilers

Tim the pa14 I flew in the 70s with the spoilers had the leading edge slats. It didn't
have a stall, your sink rate would just increase as you went slower. To slow and
you just lost directoinal controll, left or right. The nose didn't fall off. You would set
up a power on aproach at about 30 mph. Thats a little nose high. You wouldn't
change power or attitude to desend, just use the spoilers for drop control. At about
10 feet from the ground let go of spoilers, pull the nose up, a blast of power in one
smooth motion and you were on solid. Tim the pa12driver can confirm this. It was
quite a ride! I have never used spoilers with out slats. Thanks for the in put, it
sounds like with out the slat you could cause the wing to stall at lower speeds.
Do you have flaps on the 2+2. Wayne
 
Wing comparison.

Assume that we that we have a 150/160 Cub at 1600lbs, standard flaps & ailerons, no special wingtips.
We enter the following variables:

Stock wing

Stock wing w. VGs

Wing w. Leading
Edge Cuff

Wing + LEC + VGs

Slotted Dakota wing

Wing w. full Leading
Edge Slats

For each of the wings, what will be:
a) Power on stall w. flaps, mph
b) Power off stall
c) Safe manouvering speed, level flight

Let's get some numbers! What have we missed out on?


Hans

:wink:
 
Hans, We haven't done any formal testing as you call it. The slat does improve the
stol performance with out question. Some on take off, quite a lot on landing, but the
biggest gain is in slow speed manouvering safety. The owner of the #2 Dakota
Cyote told me that he and a freind with med. fuel were flying with gps. at 17 mph.
in good control. I flew #1 and it was about the same. Loid Wever owner of #2
said he could be contacted for info. Like all things there is price, the slower you
fly the more the wind will affect you. You wiil lose a cupple miles in cruise. To
make full use of these toy's there is a leaning curve. I don't want to go fast but i do love
to play. I started this a long time ago so i could hunt and fish alone. Wayne
 
Thanks for the info, Wayne. I was just trying to get more people going on this but I realize that there are only a handful on this site that fly experimental Cubs. Jerry must have some numbers...... My Bushmaster with a leading edge cuff will fly every bit as slow as the PA-18 that I used to have.
I am trying to convince a friend of mine that is building an experimental Supercub right now to look into slats. He is putting a Riblett wing on his Cub.

Whatever happened to the Goddard liftkit (slatkit) for the PA-18?

Hans
 
Prodject Chump

I know this isn't a cub but it does have a tail wheel. And i'm shore some will be
interested. A freind of mine has parts of a 7ac champ and an 0235 lyc. I am helping
him build an experimental. we have new alum. cub spars for the wings. Moving the
ailerons all the way to the tip. This way we will have room for a 9 or 10 ft. flap.
we will put 18 type gear on 8 " longer than standard to gain attitude at three point.
The elevaters are larger and balanced. And my favorite part it will have slats.
He has been talking to Lycon about pumping up his 0235 lyc. I will keep you posted
as it comes along. Fly low fly slow Wayne
 
Riblett wing

Super 22 said:
I am trying to convince a friend of mine that is building an experimental Supercub right now to look into slats. He is putting a Riblett wing on his Cub.



Hans

I've been trying for some time now to find out how the Riblett GAU613 flies but so far haven't been able to get in touch with anyone who has used it. Which Riblett airfoil is your friend using?
 
Russ, my friend is using the wide Riblett GAU613-66" wing on his Cub. He had to move the wing attachment bracket on the fuselage down so the wing would "fit" the airframe. The plane is not flying yet. Another builder that I've heard of here is using a Riblett wing on a Bushmaster.

Hans :D
 
Dakota Cub Slat

Wayne,

Have you been following Dakota Cub's evolution of their slotted wing? They are coming out with a slotted - squared off PA-18 wing. It will have the stock 102 inch aileron pushed out to the end (rather than the cut down one) and extended 90 inch flap to the fuse.

That REALLY sounds interesting!

Brad

I got to fly in the Soldotna based slotted Cub and was impressed. This new one peaks my interest even more (the more aileron the better in a Cub)
 
Dakota cub

Brad, yes i try to keep up on all i can with any of the slot or slat stuff. the last set of
my slats that i installed went on a set of wings built by Dakota Cub with these big
flaps and the ailerons out to the tip on an exstended wing. I beleave this was there
first set and they went on an expermental. Very well built wing. I beleave this is the
flap system you say they are now putting on there sloted wing. Wayne
 
Dakota cub

Brad, yes i try to keep up on all i can with any of the slot or slat stuff. the last set of
my slats that i installed went on a set of wings built by Dakota Cub with these big
flaps and the ailerons out to the tip on an exstended wing. I beleave this was there
first set and they went on an expermental. Very well built wing. I beleave this is the
flap system you say they are now putting on there sloted wing. Wayne
 
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