• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Shoulder Harnesses

Anne

Registered User
SE Michigan
I'd like to install shoulder harnesses in my Super Cub. Any opinions on which ones, where to get them, ease of installation? I don't do aerobatics, at least on purpose, but I'd like to protect our noggins in case I do something stupid.

Anne.
 
I have a set out of a Mowhawk OV-!. They are non-retractable but I can reach most places. These are a 4pt configuration with a 3" lap and 2" shoulder belts. The buckle is a lever. They are comfortable. If I were to get another set it would be an aerobatic set 4 pt. I believe Hooker makes them. Well worth the money. Additionally I encourage everyone to wear a helmet. I have a DC helmet. This style is not the strongest but it is comfortable and will give you a fighting chance if you should get into a crunch. All I want is a chance to get out of the plane before it burns or sinks.pak
 
Anne, I think that there are several STC's for installation of a Front harness? I installed an AVsafe retractable harness and welded in the attach point (no problem getting a Field approval) I think Atlee sells the attach point kit?

I really like the avsafe retract cause I can reach the floor, pick up my pencil etc., It is an inertia reel just like your car!

I will post a picture if it will help, also I can scan the 337 if your mechanic needs it?

Tim
 
I got mine from Aircraft Spruce. They come in a Wag Aero package. Wag gets them from Aero Fabricators Inc. in Lyons, WI. (sorry, but I don?t have contact info for Aero Fab.) For the PA-18, the Spruce numbers are: 13-00921-1 (front) and 13-00922-1 (rear). The Wag numbers are: H-620-001 (front), H-620-101 (rear). For both, the last number is for the color (black). Check out their sites.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catmain.php?dest=cathome.php Select Airframe Parts (on the left side) then Harnesses on the lower right side. Put the part # in the ?search? at the bottom, they don?t want to tell you up-front that they come from Wag.

http://store.wagaero.com/ Key Word pa-18, Sort By SKU, return 100 Results.

I got the rear shoulder harness attachment from F. Atlee Dodge @ (907) 344-1755. The stock attachment from Aero Fab. is a little funky and weighs 3 Lbs!, Atlee?s is pretty trick and weighs less then 13 Oz. Both are tuff to install but do-able.

In hind site, I wish I would have spent about $175.00 more to get the inertia real for the front seat from Cub Crafters (opps, I said the CC word) When you?re on final with a fixed harness, you have to loosen them up (all the way) to reach the flap handle, so why did you even put them on? The CC's ain?t cheap and I don?t where else you might get them, but what?s your noggin cost?

http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/products/SeatBelts.asp
 
Shoulder Harness

I have the Cub Crafters interia real shoulder harness........and works great...........very happy with it. One of several items/dealings I've had with CC.......and I've always been happy with their help. "
 
I got a interia reel harness from CC and it went haywire in less than 2 years of use. I got zero support from CC. The guy on the phone gave me out of date phone numbers for Am-Safe ( twice) and Richmond never returned any of my emails. Very disapointed with thier operation. I do like the harness however.
 
shoulder harness

I have CC interia reel harness's front and rear in my PA18. They work great. This was the first modification I did after purchasing the Cub.
 
Thanks for the advice, everyone. It looks like the CC inertia reel harnesses are the way to go.

Anne. :D
 
Anne, I have those also, but remember since you are experimental you do not have to by the $1000 CC version, you can by the exact same thing for a lot less that is not TSO'd.

Just my $0.02!

sj
 
Diggler, I think Steve was referring to the fact that my plane is experimental - a homebuilt Super Sport. It seems that I don't need the paperwork that you folks who fly the "real" Super Cubs need. I need the shoulder harnesses to protect our noggins, paperwork doesn't do that.

Steve, thanks for the reminder. It's worth more than 2c!

Anne.
 
Anne, Does you Cub have the extra upper cabin cross brace? I can't remember if it does, but if it's there, and has the small bar across the rear of the brace, this is the best place to mount the front harness. Wag makes good basic belts. I make my own mounts though, Wag mounts suck. Atlee mounts are better. Certified or not, get good belts that are installed properly. If the mounts are weak or not structurely correct, they are not worth having.

Digglers Am Safe 84 month thing is interesting. Does this mean I can't sign off a annual on a plane with Am Safe belts over 84 months old in it? Looks that way. Another heart warming case of a big company passing off the liability for their product onto the little guy. I hope people boycott their product, and their own legal back-handedness slits their own fiancial throat. I've never had good luck with inertia reels, Am Safe, Pacific Scientific, or whoever makes them, the centrifical ratchet always wears out fast when used a lot, (i.e., in a plane that actually flies instead of sitting in a hanger). In some aircraft where controls are hard to reach, they are worth the maintenance aggrivation. But in a Super Cub, everything is right at hand, (I've never had to loosen a rigid belt to reach the flap lever, and I don't think I have freakishly long arms). And when things get really hairy, the reasuring tug across the shoulders of a rigged harness sure feels good.
 
Cub Crafters' shoulder harnesses can be installed without welding. . . kind of handy for those of us who arent rebuilding at the present time. The front harness is designed to attach to the rear spar carry through tube. The rear harness attaches between the two tubes that form a "v" behind the headliner.

The front harness can be installed in very little time, although the rear will require a bit of gymnastics . . . but still less than half a day.

As far as approval . . . the FAA has many different routes for approving harnesses on older planes . . . we can chat about your options. The belts are fully TSO'd.

Diggler, thanks for the heads up about the 84 month issue! I have been telling customers that there are no time limited items on our new airplanes . . . you proved me wrong! We'll change our sales information immediatly.

You can get more information at http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/products/SeatBelts.asp

If you are rebuilding your aircraft, I cannont recoemnd highly enough that you install the F.Atlee Dodge floor seat belt attach points for your front seat. This is a 500% improvement over Piper's mistake of attaching the seat belt to the seat. Whith the belt attached to the seat it is not uncommon to bend the seat frame on impact, pinning the pilot in the airplane. We usually have the Atlee mod in stock as well.

As far as the belt that went bad after two years . . . I have not often heard of that. Was the situation resolved?
 
Hi Nathan, good to see you.
Your right, the original attachment of the front belt to the seat sucks.
 
SB's aren't necessary for part 91 in the eyes of the FAA, (I know, a court of law is a different story). The link you put up looks like AM Safes ICA, (Instructions for Continued Airworthiness), and ICA's are now required for any field approval. The ICA becomes part of the perminent aircraft records, and must be adhered to as strictly as the TC. Funny you mention headers, this morning I'm putting the finishing touches on a ICA to install HD headered PA18 fuel systems in other model Cubs. (I'm still a believer in HD headers, safer than wrapping the entire cabin with light aluminum fuel lines and hoses.)
 
My inertial real started making a terrible screeching noise and wasnt recoiling 100%. I talked to Am-Safe and they said send it in and they would fix it for a small fee. I saw the thing about the 84 months and thought since I purchased the harness in 96 but didnt install untill Oct99 I would try to fix it myself and if i failed I would send it in for overhaul. Needless to say I took off the cover that says " DO NOT REMOVE" and the real exploded and springs went flying. After looking at it for 2.5 hours I got it reassembled and it started to work fine.Never did figure out what was wrong with it. When I called CC about it they were less than enthused about helping me. I dont remember who I talked to but the first day I got an expired phone # for Am Safe and the second day I called CC and got a AmSafe # that at least rang in the building. Took a while to get a hold of a human. After all this I emailed Jim Richmond twice and never got a response. This was in the early spring of 2001 so the reel was less than 2 years old operationaly and only had about 400 hours of use. I still plan on buying an other set for my other Super Cub project.

Ive been following Digglers comments on the liability thing and I think it is something to beconcerned about. As a FAA air traffic controller I have been deposed in a aircraft accident and it isnt much fun even if you had nothing to do with it. Everything you say or do can and will beturned around and distorted so it is good to cover your ass.
 
I got two cents worth on this also.

Anne, if you are still watching this thread, the paperwork actually does provide some safety.

I'm not saying that Hooker doesn't make good harnesses, or that my automotive seat belts are untrustworthy, but a TSO'd harness must be designed to meet specific criteria, by law, and the FAA PMA that it is produced under implies that the materials that go into the product will meet that TSO and quality control will ensure that every piece comes out of the production facility meeting the design criteria.

The Faa STC process or Field Approval process will ensure that your shiny new harness system will be properly installed in the a/c, including geometric relationships of attach points, and integrity of those attach points.

Everyone thinks that the Fed's just want to weild their power, but there really are a hundred million things to learn from those who have thought about a certain process over, and over, and over.

That includes the experienced A&P working on the a/c with guidance from the appropriate advisory circular, the A&P-IA (Airframe and Powerplant technician holding Inspection Authorization) organizing the paperwork (data for approval) and insuring the conformity of the installation to that data, and the FAA PMI (Principle Maintenance Inspector) providing the approval for the data.

Sorry, that got tooo long.

There is value to the redundancy.

Dave Calkins.
 
Hi All - I'm still watching this thread, and trying to absorb it all. It certainly gets complicated in a hurry when you try and change something. This is going to be my first major project on the plane, so all this advice is greatly appreciated.

Mark - I'm not sure what crossbar I'm looking for. If the weather holds out on Saturday, I'll see Gerald. He might be able to tell if I've got the bar you're asking about.

Jeff - Does a TSO or other paperwork help out with an experimental? I'm not the builder, so is it now treated like a factory-built plane as far as modifications? It appears that much of the cost of the harness is tied up with the paperwork.

I'm not sure now whether to get the inertia reel or rigid type - it seems there's two very different opinions. Inertia reel is nice for reaching stuff, rigid is good because it's simpler and more reliable.

I'm going to change the attach points for the seat belts, too. Mine are currently located on the seat frame, a comment was made earlier that it's better to locate those on the floor. Makes sense, good point.

Anne.
 
Here is the thread on the AMSafe reels, if anyone is interested. Wow this stuff is getting hard to find. I guess I remembered it because this kind of thing really pisses me off.

Nathan said their sales literature would be changed "immediately" 6 months ago, so I'm sure it was been taken care of a long time ago.
 
Just food for thought on the shoulder harness thing. I know this thread is old, but I was just talking with another cub builder about the attach point for the shoulder harness.
It's worth keeping in mind that there has been some research into the appropriate angle at which the harness comes over the shoulder. Basically the closer to a 90 degree angle between the spine and harness attach point the more it will compress the spine on impact, which can lead to compression fractures, and severing of the spinal cord when vertibrate slide apart. Just behind the center of the X brace in the cabin top is better than the rear carry through.
although, that really might be more critical for racing cars than flying cubs, since if you hit that hard in the plane it would be wadded up like an empty beer can. :morning:
Chris
 
FAA advisory Circular AC 43.13-2A Chapter 9, Section 2, Figures 9.3 and 9.4 show the accepted angular relationship between the shoulder harness anchor and the occupant's shoulder.

The shoulder harness should come off the occupant's shoulders and go somewhere between straight back and 30 degrees above that. The anchor should be located somewhere in this 30 degree section.

Dave Calkins.
 
Mark, No change on their site. We mechanics bare all of the resposibility. Kinda like Aeronca/American Champion Spars. Got all my incorporation paperwork done and ready to send in. Maybe it will help a little.
 
OK, since this topic is still alive....
I've just started a rebuild on a customers Super Cub.... you should've seen what someone had put in there before for a front seat shoulder harness installation! I'm telling the owners it has to be sorted out. It's all stripped down so there is the oportunity to weld something in.

Most what everyone has written is pretty vague with regards to mounting. The Cub Crafters write up on their site is equally vague. Also the CC stuff isn't worth anything as it is unapproved. There is no such thing as field approval in New Zealand, we have to go through the DER process.

I have the F. Atlee Dodge X-brace drawing in front of me with the little tube that Mark talked about. Does F. Atlee have any approval for using this as a shoulder harness attach? And what is the resulting angle? I would imagine it is beyond the 30 deg that David M. Calkins mentions. (Mind you it is when you attach your shoulder harness to the cabin spar on a Cessna too!)

Any comment or answers to my questions would be appreciated.
 
Dodge makes an attach bracket that goes on the rear spar carrythrough and I assume the same bracket could be used for the rear harness. See www.fadodge.com/products2.html which says it is FAA/PMA approved. I don't believe in the US a shoulder harness has to be STC'd. Look at the Advisory circular referenced earlier in this thread. You could also weld tabs on as I did. See http://www.supercub.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=aai and the photo before and the one after it. Or, you can simply wrap the front harness end around the spar carrythrough and the rear harness around the cross brace in the rear structure.
 
Back
Top