Cost of saving lbs...
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soyAnarchisto
MEMBER
Boulder, CO
I can tell you the difference between 900# cub and a 1100# is astronomical. Like with a capital A.
For light weight stuff, you gotta make real sacrifices - which also saves money - like leaving stuff off that you might like to have but really don't need. Like flaps (maybe), wing ribs (13 versus 18), alternators, starters, electrical systems, dual controls, gas tanks, instruments, extended baggage, cargo doors, float fittings, paint, metal belly, cargo pods, swing out engine mounts, square wing tips, etc....
Dont forget magnesium - like those new fangled oil sumps. You need all the -iums when you got the checkbook for it.
My 180 was 1558lbs when she rolled out the door in 1955 and has gained a solid 175lbs since. It's gonna cost a fair bit to get her back anywhere close. But mostly removing stuff.
For light weight stuff, you gotta make real sacrifices - which also saves money - like leaving stuff off that you might like to have but really don't need. Like flaps (maybe), wing ribs (13 versus 18), alternators, starters, electrical systems, dual controls, gas tanks, instruments, extended baggage, cargo doors, float fittings, paint, metal belly, cargo pods, swing out engine mounts, square wing tips, etc....
Dont forget magnesium - like those new fangled oil sumps. You need all the -iums when you got the checkbook for it.
My 180 was 1558lbs when she rolled out the door in 1955 and has gained a solid 175lbs since. It's gonna cost a fair bit to get her back anywhere close. But mostly removing stuff.
Sounds like you need to pick better customers. That guy is an idiot! Next it’ll be a clown car paint job and big tires I bet.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
I bet he is wearing you out about mods as much as he does to the rest of us. So needy. Do you have pictures of this and that. Jeeze.
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cubdrvr
SPONSOR
YKN(mother city of the dakotas)
My point is that most cub pilots I know don't care if they take an extra 50' for takeoff or 5 secs. off the water. EW is not a big issue for the environment they fly in. In that case a light or heavy cub is a non issue.
My A model is legal at 1750# now..........it was legal at, I think, 2070# for Ag work. Feds must believe it's safer to haul more hazmat than camping gear.
My A model is legal at 1750# now..........it was legal at, I think, 2070# for Ag work. Feds must believe it's safer to haul more hazmat than camping gear.
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
Isn't it the case that the restricted Ag certification would have excluded passengers? If so, perhaps it was passenger safety that was the consideration. I know the restricted PA-18-180 glider tugs I flew had limitations on who could be in the back seat. I think the limitation was no one except for tow pilot checks.
Formandfunction
MEMBER
Vinyl is the absolute worst,especially that 70's Buick station wagon naugahide everyone was so fond of back in the day. Pulled my Vinyl headliner and it was 6.7 pounds. New factory style wool liner was 1.2. Lots of crazy stuff on old planes and lots of w&b that have probably been inaccurate for half a century in some cases.
Flyingde
MEMBER
NC
If you put the airplane on a diet, once a pound is removed, it’s gone forever. While it’s true that it’s cheaper to lose pounds from the pilot, that talk is cheap and those pounds are either never lost or if they are, find a way to come back, sometimes plus a few, later on down the road. Americans as a whole are not a skinny bunch…
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Have you weighed that 180? A lot of Cessnas came out the door weighing more than they said on paper. Not all those planes were actually weighed.
If you haven’t weighed it, I’d consider weighing it before you start lightening it.
MTV
MTV
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Improve the wing's lift plus the prop's thrust and the pounds disappear
Gary
Gary
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tedwaltman1
FOUNDER
Delta, CO
I saved 10+ lbs with a carbon fiber (vacuum bagged, diviny cell foam sandwich) floor. Wide body experimental Super Cub. Front to back of baggage area.
The CF is actually lighter than air... It's actually screwed down to keep it from floating. The lift of the floorboards on the airframe is anywhere from 5-15 lbs.
7 lbs 14 oz on these lightly used, stock cub birch floors,
but same idea..
Replaced with .050 diamond plate. Same weight as wood.
biggest benefit, besides tough as nails,they’re a lot thinner, I can get the seat base bolts in and out now without cussing up a storm.
but same idea..
Replaced with .050 diamond plate. Same weight as wood.
biggest benefit, besides tough as nails,they’re a lot thinner, I can get the seat base bolts in and out now without cussing up a storm.
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cubdrvr
SPONSOR
YKN(mother city of the dakotas)
amen !
tedwaltman1
FOUNDER
Delta, CO
Backcountry Super Cub kit floorboards—wide body fuselage—must be lead infused.
tedwaltman1
FOUNDER
Delta, CO
Interesting. 1,100+ hours in my carbon fiber floor Cub. Lots of Young Eagle rides. I’ve never slipped on my carbon fiber floor. No one else, to my knowledge, has slipped getting in or out of my carbon fiber floor Cub.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
Piper and cessna must have used the same scales at the factory. Lots of suspiciously light weight cubs. Most 160hp will be in the 1150+ range
Scott A
FOUNDER
Park City, UT
I think most mean front, rear, and extended baggage. Bill R. was pretty meticulous with his weights and he shows the full set of boards weighing nearly 18 pounds in his thread.
Here's a mid-'70s Cessna delivery W&B. Notice the initial weight of 1560.9# for a basic airplane, dry, unpainted, and the weight is computed. Dollars to doughnuts that computation was under actual weight. Every Cessna I know that gets weighed comes up higher than the calculated weight. Some guys won't weigh the plane because of that. I weigh mine every time I do something to it.
Crash Jr.
Registered User
Anchorage, AK
There's a wide variance in wood grades and weights. If, for example, you are very selective about your woods and get lightweight Okoume mahogany marine plywood in 3/16" thickness it's very close to as light as carbon floor boards. On the other hand if you use heavy 1/4" A/C fir ply from a hardware store they will be MUCH heavier.
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
Not when landing short, no?
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
I'll respond to myself: losing weight pays in all aspects of flight, but so does improving the wings lift I suppose, (for sure). When building, I've spent insane amounts of time with a UniBit and a round file, to save grams. I have lightening holes in my S-7S that I have not seen in any others....., but they made sense to me when I drilled them and still do! Taking a accumlative approach, I've saved tons, over the last 3K hours flight time, not hauling up/flying with, and then dealing with those extra pounds on landing. My one big regret is I used the stock kit supplied plywood floorboards, heavy, as others have mentioned. Whereas, I get a warm fuzzy feeling everytime I look at all the lightening holes I labored over.
I will soon be installing an electronic fuel injection system on the Rotax, supposedly it will (for sure) improve engine response/improve fuel economy, and eliminate carb ice, AND (so they say) weigh less, it had better.
Losing weight makes sense if you fly empty all the time. Not as much if you fly loaded, other than it provides for more payload. Your wing loading and power loading numbers are great if looking at an empty airplane. Not so great at 1320# when compared to airplanes that carry significantly more payload. At the end of the day it’s all a math exercise. If you take your load that puts you at gross and put that same load into a Supercub, Carbon Cub, Rev, etc? Those planes are running light where you’re running heavy. The math advantage goes to the other airplanes
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Thanks for posting that.
I've asked many times about the weight of a factory paint job.
Your posted W&B / equipment list shows "exterior, all over" paint job as 10.3# & 95".
Pretty light, I was surprised.
I would've guessed more like 30#.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
That paint may have weighed 30 pounds when it came out of the spray gun, but as it flashes off, most of the weight in the form of liquid, flashes off. I've always wondered what a paint job actually weighs. Ten pounds or so seems reasonable to me.
MTV
I just finished rebuilding my extended baggage area from the back seat base back with carbon. All floorboards, sides and top (my baggabe area has a top cover as well) and so far I've saved 14 lbs.
I probably overbuilt my original compartment (used .032). I found that a piece of CF composed of 3 layers of bagged material weighs almost exactly 1/2 of .032 alum. My biggest savings were in the floorboards. As for the 'slipperyness' that a few guys have brought up here..., after bagging a piece there is a glassy side and a not so pretty rough side on the finished piece..., I put the rough side up (it was going to get scratched up anyways).
Next up...., headliner!
PA-12
I probably overbuilt my original compartment (used .032). I found that a piece of CF composed of 3 layers of bagged material weighs almost exactly 1/2 of .032 alum. My biggest savings were in the floorboards. As for the 'slipperyness' that a few guys have brought up here..., after bagging a piece there is a glassy side and a not so pretty rough side on the finished piece..., I put the rough side up (it was going to get scratched up anyways).
Next up...., headliner!
PA-12
