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Taxiway Blocked?

That said, Bob- have you gone inside the flight school and gently discussed the issue with the instructors and owners? Explained that other aircraft need to use that taxi way, and if they want to run 10 minute checklists, there are plenty of other areas, not blocking the route, (like the tie down you used) that they could be out of the way?

If not, you need to do that- start nice.

Yep. Did that. Pleasantly offered the suggestion above. Flight school owner came unglued, and I left. Discussions with ramp owners were far more pleasant. I am actually a reasonably pleasant guy. When I get pissed, I don't scream and holler, I go do touch and goes. Defuses it.
The no seatbelt suggestion was meant to get the aircraft going. Some of the modern inertia reels can take forever to fasten. Pull the aircraft on to the taxiway, start it, check oil pressure, and taxi to "Spot A", and maybe shut down so an extensive pre and post start checklist can be carefully completed. Towing works too.

I have another suggestion, but it will not work as well, since the post start checklist cannot be rushed or shortened. I plan to suggest as a distant third alternative that when they see us coming and have not started the engine they push back into the tiedown spot and let us pass. The problem there is that once the pilots get in and start the process it can be ten minutes before engine start. They would resist getting out . . .

Last week I taxied around the black Cessna, flew my daily three landings, and passed the outbound black Cessna on my way back in. By that time he had progressed to the two way taxiway on his way out. What is it about a 172 that takes 20 minutes to get it moving?
 
It isn't just the flight schools.
I'm based on a fairly busy public use airport,
and I see a lot of rude, inconsiderate behavior.
Pilots parked at one of the only two fuel station spots while they're eating lunch or whatever.
I doubt they'd leave their car at the gas station pump while they hit McD's--
why do that when they're at an airport?
Also recently had the buddy of a new rental hangar tenant leave his airplane in front of the tenant's hangar,
and go to town-- meanwhile blocking the taxiway to 8 other hangars, in spite of there being about 25 open parking spots on the ramp.
Also all the time I see cars parked left blocking taxiways and hangar doors...
all done by airplane people who ought to know better.
One airplane taking up an entire 2-airplane-sized run-up area, prop wash aimed at open hangars,
lonnnng run-ups done at the hold-short line with other ready-to-go pilots waiting behind them....
the list goes on and on.
I think some people just switch their smarts, common sense, and courtesy switches to "off" when they get to the airport,
as they don't even seem to realize they're doing anything wrong.
(OK, rant over. sorry!)
 
I have to say, the push by FAA on checklists is part of the problem. I recall a discussion on here or an the J3 forum about checklists for checkrides. I was always taught that a checklist is supposed to check that things had already been completed, not a do list. When the list is so long you can’t remember it, and you have to read step by step you open yourself up to errors.

From the sounds of it, that 172 checklist is longer than our C37 checklist! That makes no sense.


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They say Chivalry is dead, I guess Airmanship went with it.
Every instructor I had always prioritized their wallet over instruction but at least didn't make me waste other people's time on the taxiway, that's what the ramp and run-up areas were for...
 
Today the flight school blocked both the taxiway and the maintenance ramp. Ramp is plenty wide, but they just stopped in the exact middle. I think they are trying to pick a fight. I threaded my way around, crossing two forbidden tie downs. I should hear about that tomorrow.

Checklists! I invented them for a J3. Three items on the walkaround, one on the after start, one after takeoff, and CIGAR TIPS and GMS for the important ones. We had to have after landing and shutdown checklists too - one item each. The very picky and scared DPE said they were OK. After landing was the toughest - I forget what we used - Flaps up in the Super Cub, but something silly for the J3.

The way I see it, a before start checklist should never have things like "Master- ON" "mixture-RICH" " starter - ENGAGE". After all, if you forget those sorts of things, you are not going flying! And that's a good thing!
 
Wow, thanks for reminding me how lucky I am flying out of my own strip, I tend to take it for granted.

I'd done just what you did, go around them, whatever it took, let the chips fall wherever.
 
Pete - Montgomery, in San Diego. I am, by actual count, 3% of reported average daily operations, and March 2019 by actual count, 4 1/2%. I have been flying out of Montgomery for 52 years, and based my J3 there since 1976. It is now possible that i have more experience in Montgomery's class D than any other pilot. I bet that is more than you wanted to know - but wait! I logged 96 Stearman hours last year, all in the pattern, and all as instructor pilot.

What fun! Who knew retirement could be this good?
 
I plowed snow for the neighborhood a few years. One guy there was a bit of an ass, and had it in for most of the others. Had his own plow, and did his own thing.

After a couple of times of me plowing the common road, and him coming after and pushing snow into other's driveways, (other side of the road had NO driveways), the State Trooper got called. Guess about an hour after I plowed, he came by with his bobcat and worked to block the neighbor in. As I told the Trooper- If he wants a snow war, I can do that. Don't pick a fight with guys owning more and bigger machines, I was ready to haul snow with trucks and build a massive pile in that guys driveway.

Never had another problem.

Park every one of your planes around the flight school planes, block them in for a few hours on a busy day. Then nicely walk in and discuss courtesy. Might take a couple days for the owner to cool down though
 
…...Checklists! I invented them for a J3. Three items on the walkaround, one on the after start, one after takeoff, and CIGAR TIPS and GMS for the important ones. ….

I know CIGAR (and GUMP), but can't remember what TIPS stands for, and never heard of GMS.
Please (attempt to) edjucate me.

As far as inconsiderate people go,
whether it's about airplanes or snow, some people just have to be ass holes--
I guess it's just their nature.
And unfortunately everyone else's cross to bear.
 
TIPS - trim, instrument double check (oil temp/press), prop, seatbelts.
GMS - no U or P in a J3. I teach GUMPS, but for the checkride we need something simpler. It is really GS on a J3.

The one I find useful: "After Takeoff Checklist - rpm - CHECK". That one is useful! Engine health and carb heat are both double-checked. I owe the FAA at least that.

I no longer do checkride preps. Not good enough. (I have the controls you have the controls I have the controls? Yuk!). PAVE and IMSAFE? I cannot teach that as something to do just before executing the engine fire/fail checklist.
 
Bob,

I think blocking a taxiway MIGHT be an infraction of some obscure FAR. Get a little creative, and next time you talk to the school folks, drop a hint that you’ve been talking to the FSDO ( might have to explain who that is) and quote (at very high velocity) an FAR which specifically prohibits blocking a movement area on an airport. Make it fast, then haul ass before they can gather their wits.

Let it soak for a few days. Then actually talk to a fed about this deal being a “safety” issue.....like someone may get a wing into a hangar trying to get around these jokers. Explain to said fed (hell, that rymes) that if same happens, you’re explaining to the NTSB investigator how the FAA and airport manager have been encouraging this nonsense forever.

Make em nervous. Hell if nothing else, they’ll be searching the refs for the next month trying to figure it out.

meanwhile you’ll be flying.

Or, excersize the priveledge your Cal. Concealed carry permit suggests. Lotsa opportunities while fueling, for example,for you to inadvertently exhibit that very realistic plastic gun under your t-shirt. “Dirty Bob”.....I like the sound of that.

MTV
 
Good one.

We are proceeding the friendly way, and in the meantime going around these guys as before, usually with success. Some of the instructors are starting to conduct checklist activity to one side, leaving us enough room to pass each other. That's the spirit! The boss, though, is acting like he is off his meds.

We will surely fix it. The Feds probably have no jurisdiction, since it is what they call "landside".
 
City of San Diego Airports Division OPERATIONS POLICIES AND PROCEDURES

CHAPTER 3: AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS
Article 21. Aircraft Operating on the Ground
C.
Parking in taxiway areas is prohibited. Taxiway areas shall be maintained open for taxiing aircraft at all times and no aircraft shall be parked in such taxiway areas left unattended in such a manner as to interfere with the free flow of traffic.

I think that about covers it.
 
Bob,

I checked with the household airport land expert about this and here is what I am told:

If the airport is public and has received 'Grant Assurance' money from the FAA, all leases and such should be public. You should get a copy of the flight school's lease and look under their allowed uses- there could, or should, be some language in the lease about doing business on their lease lot, and their lot should be large enough to do so without blocking others. There is also probably wording that says something to the effect that use of common areas will be done in a manner to not obstruct other users.

Read their lease, and what they are allowed and not allowed to do. If these actions are in violation- take it to the airport board.

Also under Grant Assurance number 23; Exclusive Rights, FAA Order 5190.6B, Chapter 8 paragraph 2: Paraphrase- The Airport allowing one user to act in such a manner as to hinder other's use of common airport areas is not allowed.

FAA Order 5190.6b, Chapter 7.9 Local Rules and Procedures: Sponsors, (management) is obligated to make rules and regulations to keep aircraft safe... The Flight School's operations are not 'safe' in airport world.

Please look them up and read them over. There is also some procedures for complaints when the airport goes out of the Assurances rules.

Good Luck!
 
Excellent! Is an airport with ATC, so AC’s of FAA and FAR’s must be addressed by Airport Operations for ground movement, even in taxi lanes between hangars for federal grants. Sad that grown ass people cannot be courteous to other pilots.
As stated before, the simplest answer is often the best. FAA definition of taxi lane, taxiway, apron/ramp, tie down areas,etc. drives how the airport operations can allow those areas to be used, and not used, and what their designed purposes are.
 
You did! I am amazed at the amount of knowledge here and the willingness to dig in and help. Thank you, gang. This does put the issue in an entirely different light.
 
Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

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Showed those two interesting posts to the Lessor management - a really nice guy. He may be spring-loaded to favor the flight school, since he interpreted the regulation as only pertaining to unattended aircraft. That is, so long as you are wandering around in the vicinity of the blocking aircraft all is ok. More to come, I am sure.
 
I park my small car (honda crv) next to & tight against my hangar.
Plenty of room for hi or low wing aircraft to get by,
even if someone else parks against the opposite hangar also.
But not all taxi lanes are created equal.
 
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