J3 shoulder harness attach points
- Thread starter TulsaDave
- Start date
Longwinglover
Registered User
Charlotte, NC
There is not a GOOD place.
The brand "W" STC puts a clamp on the rear spar carry through, just waiting to gash your head open and leaving the harnesses hanging right in your face.
The Kosola STC attaches to the cluster at the left rear of the overhead "V" with a single belt.
Neither are ideal. Take your pick.
John Scott
The brand "W" STC puts a clamp on the rear spar carry through, just waiting to gash your head open and leaving the harnesses hanging right in your face.
The Kosola STC attaches to the cluster at the left rear of the overhead "V" with a single belt.
Neither are ideal. Take your pick.
John Scott
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I like the Kosola STC. It mounts the harness to a machined block that clamps over a tube at a stout cluster. It is a bit pricey though.
bob turner
Registered User
I have my Air Force 4-pt seatbelts mounted like the Kosolo - never, ever a problem with or without a front seat passenger. My personal next step will be a crotch strap - still thinking about it.
I hate inertial reels. They were ok in the jets, but I have never seen a light plane inertial reel that I liked.
I hate inertial reels. They were ok in the jets, but I have never seen a light plane inertial reel that I liked.
Chuck-Fairfax
GONE WEST
Fairfax, VA
I installed the Wag-Aero front belt as shown below. Their idea, also shown in Cub Clues, of having it right over your head made no sense, as John Scott said.
My son and another pilot passenger have had no comfort problems with it off-set like this. I think it is better than a single belt, but don't really know.
I have since moved it to the right side, as shown here, because I normally look forward along the left side more than the right; this gives less restriction to my forward vision.
Your mileage may vary: there was a long thread on this on j3-Cub.com a while back.
Chuck Shaw
My son and another pilot passenger have had no comfort problems with it off-set like this. I think it is better than a single belt, but don't really know.
I have since moved it to the right side, as shown here, because I normally look forward along the left side more than the right; this gives less restriction to my forward vision.
Your mileage may vary: there was a long thread on this on j3-Cub.com a while back.
Chuck Shaw
bob turner
Registered User
Really nice photos. I note that Wag Aero got approval for a smaller bolt. Their first STC shoulder harness came with an AN-6 and a piece of steel plate that had to have come from a scrapped battleship. If you do the math, an AN-3 will break right after the tube has crumpled beyond recognition. I guess Piper did the math when it used coat hangars for the lap belts.
Chuck-Fairfax
GONE WEST
Fairfax, VA
David,
Note in my second photo mine is a "Y" shoulder harness. The offset does bring one side closer to the neck than the other, but not enough to bother either of the men who have flown with it.
Correct, you do not need an STC for front seat shoulder harnesses on aircraft built prior to July 19, 1978, and on rear seat for aircraft built before December 13, 1986. FAA Policy Statement Number ACE-00-23.561-01 covers all this. The FAA thinking is that about anything is better than no shoulder harness. However, if you replace the seat belt, which I had to do, that belt must be an approved belt.
Here is the link to the FAA site copy of the document.
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf
Chuck Shaw
Note in my second photo mine is a "Y" shoulder harness. The offset does bring one side closer to the neck than the other, but not enough to bother either of the men who have flown with it.
Correct, you do not need an STC for front seat shoulder harnesses on aircraft built prior to July 19, 1978, and on rear seat for aircraft built before December 13, 1986. FAA Policy Statement Number ACE-00-23.561-01 covers all this. The FAA thinking is that about anything is better than no shoulder harness. However, if you replace the seat belt, which I had to do, that belt must be an approved belt.
Here is the link to the FAA site copy of the document.
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf
Chuck Shaw
Alex Clark
Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
Mine are Atlee Dodge
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Alex, I'm looking at your swing-up left window - could you please post a pic (or describe) your latching mechanism and the catch to hold it open?
Hope your back's improving???
Hope your back's improving???
bob turner
Registered User
Yeah - and let's have a report on how the breeze is with that window open? I originally thought that would be a really hot idea, but then got the opportunity to fly rear seat with both doors open. Almost lost my headset and glasses - on the first takeoff. There really is a spiral around the fuselage from that prop, and at high power and high angles of attack it is a bit like a tornado. Never noticed it in a biplane, but watch out in a Cub.
bob turner
Registered User
The old methods, above, are the best.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
bob turner
Registered User
The brand W attaches to the center of the rear spar carrythrough. See posts above. Ours are located to the side like "longwinglover" above, and when solo we don't even see them.
Inertia reels have their place, but in front all you need is snug.
Also note how heavy the Wag thing is - AN-6 bolt? On an .032 tube?
Inertia reels have their place, but in front all you need is snug.
Also note how heavy the Wag thing is - AN-6 bolt? On an .032 tube?
Crash Jr.
Registered User
Anchorage, AK
It's a good point but at least the Wag bracket looks pretty minimalist. The Atlee one is a massive bracket for such a simple installation.
Now I'm really torn. I like the Wag seat belt setup and it's inexpensive but it would have to be left pretty loose in order to lean forward to get to the trim and carb heat. Pretty much necessitates an inertia reel. Not that I have anything against an inertia reel necessarily except the cost and having a big reel in the baggage area. The univair harness kit looks like the ticket then but the belt ends look like they're in need of modification to work with the wire loop seat belt attachments in a J3.
Hmm...decisions...
Now I'm really torn. I like the Wag seat belt setup and it's inexpensive but it would have to be left pretty loose in order to lean forward to get to the trim and carb heat. Pretty much necessitates an inertia reel. Not that I have anything against an inertia reel necessarily except the cost and having a big reel in the baggage area. The univair harness kit looks like the ticket then but the belt ends look like they're in need of modification to work with the wire loop seat belt attachments in a J3.
Hmm...decisions...
Dan Gervae
FRIEND
Upper Peninsula of Michigan
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Dunno about the attach points, but Cub Crafters sells what seems to be a reasonably price inertia reel set-up in 2 lengths.
27" Shoulder Harness, Inertia Reel w/lap belt for PA-18 (cubcrafters.com)
38" Shoulder Harness Inertia Reel and Lap Belt for PA-18 (cubcrafters.com)
WhiskeyMike
MEMBER
West Boxford MA
J_3 Shoulder harness
You might find CAA Manual 8 on line. It has the recommended shoulder harness attach methods for Ag planes. You should attach at clusters on the main frame sides. In Restricted category anyways, we would wrap plastic coated 1/8" cable around the rear spar attach clusters on each side, and I would criss cross the straps to keep them nicely in place while wearing them. Strongest method I could find. While you're at it, make sure the seat belt is attached to the frame as well.8)
You might find CAA Manual 8 on line. It has the recommended shoulder harness attach methods for Ag planes. You should attach at clusters on the main frame sides. In Restricted category anyways, we would wrap plastic coated 1/8" cable around the rear spar attach clusters on each side, and I would criss cross the straps to keep them nicely in place while wearing them. Strongest method I could find. While you're at it, make sure the seat belt is attached to the frame as well.8)
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
The Wag and CC belts are a pain to put on. I wish they would switch to plug in like Scientific Pacific uses on jets
Glenn
Glenn
bob turner
Registered User
Agree. There are apparently four ways to attempt connection - I always get it right on the fourth attempt. Our J3s use the old Army Air Corps buckles with hammered fabric loops. Easy-peezy. Decathlon has Silver Parachute - just like Hooker - also easy.
frequent_flyer
Registered User
Arizona, USA
I've flown with several different types of seat belt including thousands of hours with plug in type. I have no trouble putting on and fastening the CC inertia reel harness. It only goes one way.
Pull shoulder harness off the reel with no twist. Top shoulder strap over right shoulder with no twist, bottom shoulder strap over left shoulder with no twist, right lap strap on thigh. Then right strap on buckle tongue with no twist, left strap on buckle tongue with no twist, hold the 3 parts together with right hand. Bring up the left strap then crunch down and back in the seat to make enough slack to fasten, then click on the left side. All done. It takes less time than the G3X takes to boot.
Now if you have to make it slacker once you have it on, then it's a problem. The webbing is locked so tight in the lap strap buckles that it's almost impossible to move unless the belt is slack.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
