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ADS-B Issues

This is what you see if you search for my aircraft on Flightaware. N810GL - DAFOE GERALD W (MORRISTOWN AZ)

This aircraft (N810GL) is not available for public tracking per request from the owner/operator.

That's my airplane! How do I track my airplane on FlightAware?
FlightAware can provide aircraft owner/operators with secure access to their own flight data. Contact FlightAware for help.

Gerald do you have a 1090 transponder? Reading the article that Eddie posted seems to imply that tracking can be blocked only for 1090 transponders and that the UAT types can rely only on anonymous mode.

I have two transponders, one of each. On the 1090 I already had it blocked and I see the same message you posted above. On my UAT I get a different message that says it can’t find and data.

Anonymous mode is only an option when squawking 1200 so it would seem to follow that it you’re flying with an ATC assigned code you’re no longer unavailable to flight trackers. And with a 1090 I think you would be unavailable when squawking an ATC code.

Anyone know for sure if what I wrote is true?
 
Yes I have a 1090 transponder. GTX 335. This blocking ability predates ADS B by several years, but applies to ADS B as well. I thought it applied to UAT as well. If you block at the "source" level then the FAA does not even send your data to them.
 
I don't recall if this has been discussed here. https://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdi.html It is simple to request the blocking. It takes at the most a couple weeks for it to be implemented. Your aircraft then does not show up on FlightAware etc. I requested blocking at the source level. It works. I've been blocked for about a year now. People can still receive your out directly if they have the equipment to do that but at least they don't get it from the tracking services.

The FAA blocking request only blocks info sharing. That only works with tracking sites that honor the FAA data block. Other sites use and share their own tracking info and don't honor your blocking request. Anonymous mode with a UAT device hides the N number from those sites. I don't believe there's anything you can do to cloak an ES device. Or so I've been told. I was talking to a guy about my data block being effective. He pulled up a website and showed me my last track. That's my big complaint about the FAA requirement to have it on at all times when they can't protect my privacy.
 
I thought of this entire ADS-B thing the other day after having a very near flyby with 6 large Canadian geese. Not pertinent I know, but my first thought afterwards was "no ADS-B." O f course, I don't have it either, not pertinent, like I said.
 
….I have two transponders, one of each. On the 1090 I already had it blocked and I see the same message you posted above. On my UAT I get a different message that says it can’t find and data. ….

Dunno about the other tracking sites / apps,
but I believe that the Flight Radar 24 app is unable to track 978UAT.
 
hotrod180, is it possible that you weren't in anonymous mode for the entire flight? If you'll humor a few more of my questions so I can get a better understanding anonymous mode:
Looking at your PAPR report:
On page 2, does the Tail Number and Broadcast ICAO match what should be in those fields for your plane? What does "Out Capability" say?
On page 4 under Missing Elements, are there any failures for Flight ID, or under Other Checks any errors with Mode 3A? …..

Page 2-- tail number & ICAO number correct, out capability sez "UAT".
Page 4-- missing elements: flight ID sez 0.12% fail, Max dT00:00:01, MCF 1.
other checks: mode 3A sez 0.00% fail, Max dT 00:00:00, MCF 0.

It's all greek to me, my take-away was that it ID'd me, and there were no red flags (fails)
which would result in one of MTV's dirty letters from FAA.
 
A little wary

What I am understanding is that, with OUT installed, it must be ON whenever I fly, period. OK, but am I then subject to FAA scrutiny for every flight with emails and phone calls coming, that I didn't have before I installed OUT (I haven't installed it yet), if for some reason they didn't get my signal (I dropped to 500' agl) or I was at the wrong altitude for a short period of time because of down-drafts or whatever? Other words I am a little wary of this "watching me".
 
Thanks, hotrod180. It looks like a good report from a UAT that wasn't running in anonymous mode. I think there may have been bugs in earlier uAvionix firmware revisions that could prevent anonymous mode from working consistently. Might want to double check that you are on the latest version.

I'm still a bit skeptical that FAA has the ability to unmask anonymous UAT transmissions. I may write up a technical explanation of why I'm skeptical after I do some more research. Thanks again for putting up with my questions.
 
What I am understanding is that, with OUT installed, it must be ON whenever I fly, period. OK, but am I then subject to FAA scrutiny for every flight with emails and phone calls coming, that I didn't have before I installed OUT (I haven't installed it yet), if for some reason they didn't get my signal (I dropped to 500' agl) or I was at the wrong altitude for a short period of time because of down-drafts or whatever? Other words I am a little wary of this "watching me".

The Kid,

I think many of us (at least 38.2% of us, anyway) are wary of the many unknowns yet to be discovered in this new ADS-B environment. I haven't read anything about using it for enforcement actions, but it doesn't take much of an imagination to see where we could end up.
 
I'm still a bit skeptical that FAA has the ability to unmask anonymous UAT transmissions. I may write up a technical explanation of why I'm skeptical after I do some more research. Thanks again for putting up with my questions.

You are NOT anonymous to the FAA. Just others.
 
Hi Gerald,

I've seen that repeated here, and I'm trying to figure out how it may be possible. A review of the technical literature suggests that your permanent ICAO code should not be easily recoverable from the temporary ICAO code generated and transmitted by a UAT device in anonymous mode.

I'm still learning about all of this, and will probably just keep my mouth shut until I know more.
 
What I am understanding is that, with OUT installed, it must be ON whenever I fly, period. OK, but am I then subject to FAA scrutiny for every flight with emails and phone calls coming, that I didn't have before I installed OUT (I haven't installed it yet), if for some reason they didn't get my signal (I dropped to 500' agl) or I was at the wrong altitude for a short period of time because of down-drafts or whatever? Other words I am a little wary of this "watching me".

Kid, in our part of the world there are ADSB towers at GPI, MSO, and Polson. I pick up the Polson tower at 5500’ over rainbow lake. To the west there’s Spokane and near Lewiston, ID. So unless you’re pretty high, above the ridges, or the Flathead and Missoula valleys no tower is seeing you.

But I have seen ship to ship In targets in the Clarkfork valley. It is always a surprise when they pop up unless they’ve made a radio position report first. I’ve seen ship to ship in the Idaho backcountry too.
 
What I am understanding is that, with OUT installed, it must be ON whenever I fly, period. OK, but am I then subject to FAA scrutiny for every flight with emails and phone calls coming, that I didn't have before I installed OUT (I haven't installed it yet), if for some reason they didn't get my signal (I dropped to 500' agl) or I was at the wrong altitude for a short period of time because of down-drafts or whatever? Other words I am a little wary of this "watching me".

As long as your "Out" transmitter works flawlessly you won't receive any communications from the FAA's ADS-B team.

Dropping out of coverage does NOT transmit an error message. As I noted in one of my earlier posts, the FAA sent me a map of one of my flights where I had dipped down into a canyon (intentionally to see what would happen) and the map was overlain with color, which indicated ADS-B projected coverage. Worst case scenario, the FAA would look at that and realize that you were out of coverage.....which does not constitute an "error".

The problem I'm having is repeated NIC errors. In simple terms, an NIC error implies that the GPS connected to my ADS-B transmitter is either not sending a position, or the position is in error. In my case, the GPS is built into the SkyBeacon unit, so there's no way to fix it, apparently.

Also, remember that a GPS receiver requires a little while to develop an accurate signal. This may be as much as five minutes or more. If you launch prior to the GPS having acquired a precise signal, your transmitter will send a NIC error message. If you download a PAPR report after the flight, you'll see that NIC error block highlighted in red.

BUt, at least theoretically, your aircraft leaving or re-entering the ADS-B coverage area SHOULDN'T generate an error.

As to whether the FAA will ever use ADS-B data for enforcement purposes, you can bet your bottom dollar that if you were to violate a TFR or other restricted airspace and the FAA came at you, that they'd have a PAPR report on your flight in hand. Every ADS-B system includes a WAAS enabled GPS, so your location will be precisely noted. I presume the same would apply to accusations of flights close to people/structures, etc, since these things also transmit altitude-both GPS and encoder. Other kinds of possible violations? Who knows?

But, there WILL be a record of your flights.

MTV
 
.

As to whether the FAA will ever use ADS-B data for enforcement purposes, you can bet your bottom dollar that if you were to violate a TFR or other restricted airspace and the FAA came at you, that they'd have a PAPR report on your flight in hand. Every ADS-B system includes a WAAS enabled GPS, so your location will be precisely noted. I presume the same would apply to accusations of flights close to people/structures, etc, since these things also transmit altitude-both GPS and encoder. Other kinds of possible violations? Who knows?

But, there WILL be a record of your flights.

MTV

So if you want to get someone in trouble, just broadcast their data..... on your flight... I can see all sorts of uses for abuse of this...... think guides, fish spotters... I bet the park service will be monitoring it too....


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
So if you want to get someone in trouble, just broadcast their data..... on your flight... I can see all sorts of uses for abuse of this...... think guides, fish spotters... I bet the park service will be monitoring it too....


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

I was thinking that, as long as you aren’t 1090es, where your ICAO is programmed into the transponder, what would stop someone from programming their skyBeacon or other adsb system to some other N# and ICAO code. Lots of registered airplanes that never move that one could “borrow” the ID from


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
ADS-B is not required in Alaska outside of class C. I don't expect much participation, especially in the hunting and fishing guide category.
 
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Hmm, This data comes from lots of sources looks like. I presume it is also live not just historical.[h=1]Sources[/h]This database is built and maintained from the following sources:
  • Official aircraft registries
  • Various Basestation.sqb files
  • Crowdsourced and manually collected data from various people (e.g. Oxford data analyst Martin Strohmeier)
  • openflights.org
  • ICAO Doc 8643
We accept additional aircraft data in any format (CSV, BaseStation.sqb, ...)! Just contact contact@opensky-network.org for further instructions
 
Hmm, This data comes from lots of sources looks like. I presume it is also live not just historical.Sources

This database is built and maintained from the following sources:
  • Official aircraft registries
  • Various Basestation.sqb files
  • Crowdsourced and manually collected data from various people (e.g. Oxford data analyst Martin Strohmeier)
  • openflights.org
  • ICAO Doc 8643
We accept additional aircraft data in any format (CSV, BaseStation.sqb, ...)! Just contact contact@opensky-network.org for further instructions


Gerald, Absolutely live with no delay. it's crowdsourced around the world. People get free receivers (basically little raspberry pi's with receivers plugged in) with the agreement they will provide data. You can also purchase historical information. FlightAware and FlightRadar24 are also crowdsourced in this manner.

I love data... I don't love what they might do with it all...

sj
 
I was thinking that, as long as you aren’t 1090es, where your ICAO is programmed into the transponder, what would stop someone from programming their skyBeacon or other adsb system to some other N# and ICAO code. Lots of registered airplanes that never move that one could “borrow” the ID from


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Which would mean that you’d NEVER go into any kind of ATC controlled airspace, like tower controlled, since your radio comm tail # wouldn’t match your ADS-B signal. At least on the SkyBeacon, you can’t change your data in flight......only a small window right after turning it on.
And if that were the case, why would you spend the money to install anyway.

Break out the tin foil hats. Lots of other reasons to be concerned about this, but, not this.
MTV
 
Gerald, Absolutely live with no delay. it's crowdsourced around the world. People get free receivers (basically little raspberry pi's with receivers plugged in) with the agreement they will provide data. You can also purchase historical information. FlightAware and FlightRadar24 are also crowdsourced in this manner.

I love data... I don't love what they might do with it all...

sj

There it is. The FAA says if I have ADS-B installed it must be transmitting, The FAA accepted my data block form and yet my info is broadcast around the world for anyone to see. My 1090 will remain off until I choose to turn it on. I welcome the FAA to take exception to that given that they can't protect the data they're requiring me to transmit. Removing my equipment would be simple enough, if it comes to that. For you guys that need ADS-B and elected to use 1090? You should be pissed off. Where'S AOPA on this issue?
 
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Are people really that worried about someone tracking them?
Unless you've got the mafia or a pissed off ex-wife after you,
I don't get it.
Not only is no one tracking me--
when I try to tell people about where I went, no one even cares.
:-(
 
Can I imagine guys interested in where I'm hunting or fishing to look up a track? Absolutely. Would I be interested in where other guys are going? Absolutely. But in the bigger picture it doesn't matter whether anyone wants to as much as that they can. The government has no business requiring me to provide my locations to the world, especially when they've established that they support blocking that info, but can't.
 
What I am understanding is that, with OUT installed, it must be ON whenever I fly, period. OK, but am I then subject to FAA scrutiny for every flight with emails and phone calls coming, that I didn't have before I installed OUT (I haven't installed it yet), if for some reason they didn't get my signal (I dropped to 500' agl) or I was at the wrong altitude for a short period of time because of down-drafts or whatever? Other words I am a little wary of this "watching me".

Looks like you're in Thompson Falls MT--
where's the nearest "rule airspace"?
And do you fly into it much?
If I didn't live within 15 miles of SeaTac's mode C veil,
and about 5 miles from NAS Whidbey's class C,
and didn't fly into both of them quite often,
I wouldn't have bothered installing ADS-B.
 
MTV,
Regarding your uAvionix unit: if you've covered this earlier, my apologies. How have you "grounded" the unit? More precisely, are the power return currents traveling through the wing structure and wing root bolts? If so, this may be the problem. The wing root bolts fret in flight, creating very brief (millisecond) interruptions in the return current from the lamps, generating consider RF noise (via gigantic variable ground loops), and perhaps affecting the power delivery to the unit. You would never see the effects in nav or landing lights, but experience shows that the RF noise is strong enough to disrupt reception in earlier GPS units. The ADS-B unit be be affected by the brief power interruptions as well.

The best solution is a direct ground wire (preferable twisted pair with the power), but short of that, a jumper around the wing root bolts should help.

Just a thought.

S
 
Are people really that worried about someone tracking them?
Unless you've got the mafia or a pissed off ex-wife after you,
I don't get it.
Not only is no one tracking me--
when I try to tell people about where I went, no one even cares.
:-(
In the old days when you (we) could go just about anywhere we pleased without a care in the World, we did not care and no one else cared. It was "Oh look, a Piper Cub! What fun!". Now it is "Let's turn him in, that rich bastid shouldn't be doing that".
Now in the 21st century when cell phone cameras are everywhere and people who know nothing and care not one bit about aviation are prolific in complaining about anyone doing things that they do not care to do are also everywhere, we must cover our derrieres. We used to be able to land in most any field, on any beach, in any pond, fly under any bridge etc. We just can't have fun anymore. Now they mandate that we spend bug bucks to install a piece of electronics in our airplane so that they can keep track of us, so that they can violate us if we make just the tiniest slip up.

I have been reticent about this entire ADS-B thingy from the beginning. Now that the date is here, I had just about talked myself into installing a new replacement transponder which handles the ADS-B out on 1090 Mhz. With these recent bits of information which have presented themselves within the past couple of weeks, I have decided that my electronics will remain "broken". I live and fly under a class B airspace. One plane has no electrical system the other does. They will have to prove which plane I'm flying. Not this finger to them :up !
 
And let’s not forget user fees. There is and will be a group in Congress that will constantly seek to tax out aviation activities. Mode S transponders, and now ADSB gives the government the tools to easily track and charge for the use of airspace we already own.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I flew yesterday, in anonymous mode,
after which I requested a PAPR.
To my surprise, I did get a report.
So it is anonymous to everyone BUT the government, after all.
I guess the "scrambled signal" isn't quite as scrambled as I thought.

I did the same thing today. I flew to an ADSB towered area to the east with my UAT (Garmin GDL82) in anonymous mode. An hour or so after landing I requested a Performance Report using my N number and their system had no problem finding me.
 
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