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ADS-B Issues

did you get yours working yet?

Nope. Waited over two weeks for tech support to respond to several messages. Finally responded the day before I left on a trip with the advice : “Check the ground connection.” I will double check that when I get home.

Anyone who installs one of these things needs to regularly request a PAPR report, to make certain the thing is working.

MTV
 
MTV: It is my understanding that many folks have been having trouble with the SkyBeacon wingtip item. Because of this I opted to go without the wingtip or the tail strobe option 'til they iron out the issues...
Well, I received the dreaded phone call from the FAA in Washington DC recently, letting me know that my newly installed ADS-B unit was intermittently transmitting error messages. Perfect......

Fortunately, the FAA gent was very polite, and totally non threatening. His recommendation was to contact the manufacturer, which I have now done.....a few times.

One of the "error flights" (for lack of a better way to describe them) was a VERY short flight from the local airport to a private airport right on the edge of the Class D airspace. I went there for a fly in brunch. Had breakfast, then hopped in the plane and flew back to the airport. As you can imagine, both the outbound and return flights were very brief. According to the FAA guy, the outbound flight was fine (and understand that I never got over 1000 feet), with continuous and accurate information.

The return flight, however, involved several errors. On that flight I stayed around 500 agl, so I postulated that maybe the error was caused by me being too low. His response was "Nope, we have your altitude data, the error was something else, and your unit was transmitting your tail number accurately". Great, I'm in the air for a few minutes and busted......

I've now resolved (I hope--fingers crossed) the issues, and in the process, I've learned a few more things about ADS-B. Here are some of those:

1. When you have your ADS-B Out unit set to "Anonymous mode", the unit still transmits your tail number to the FAA. The only anonymity is that your tail number is blocked to the "Public". So, if you're paranoid about Joe the child molester down the street possibly tracking you, set that puppy to anonymous mode, but understand that the FAA will still receive all the data they would have if the unit were in normal mode.

2. These units all rely on a WAAS enabled GPS. As most of us know, it takes a GPS a few minutes to establish an accurate location, particularly if the unit hasn't been turned on fairly recently. In fact, according to the techs I spoke to, this process will often require up to five minutes. If you take off before that WAAS GPS establishes an accurate set of coordinates, your ADS-B will snitch you out to The Man......with an error message. So, we're guessing that's what happened on my short trip.....the taxi out and run up at the airport allowed plenty of time for the unit to acquire the satellites and establish position data. On the other hand, when I returned, I taxiied out a very short distance (150 feet??) and took off. Turns out that the first half of that flight returned an error message, presumably because I hadn't waited long enough for the GPS to stabilize.

So, if you'd really rather not talk to a very polite FAA guy in D.C., make sure before every takeoff after a shutdown that you've given your GPS time to find itself......maybe five minutes. Yeah, I know.....but.

3. Frankly, I was surprised that they were able to track my return flight, because I was pretty low. There are no GBTs anywhere near here, but there is a low power ATC radar, so they were undoubtedly getting the data from the radar, not a GBT. I have tried to get ADS-B Out (or more accurately-FIS-B) for weather data around here, and below my normal operating altitudes, it was a no go. Hence I use XM Satellite Weather.

My unit is a uAvionix Sky Beacon, mounted on a wing tip. I contacted their tech help, and they sent me a link to a software update, and walked me through the upload process. There are some traps in there, nothing ugly, but a bit frustrating if you don't know how to duck them. But, the techs were patient and very helpful. Apparently, some of the older transponders are not exactly functioning precisely as intended, and this software update is intended to fix some of those problems. Also, my unit was set to a threshold of 30 at the factory, and they instructed me to reset that to 35 (don't ask me what that means, just following instructions), and they said that may have caused some of the problems.

Anyway, I've now informed my new best buddy at the FAA that I've uploaded the update and reset some parameters. I'm sure he'll be waiting with bated breath for my next flight. I have for years kept a list of the shittiest jobs on earth. His is now in the top three.

Hope this helps.

MTV
 
Whatever,

Yes, that is also my understanding. The Skybeacon may in fact be a little worse than the tailbeacon. I only went with the Skybeacon to get the FAA rebate. One of the problems with the Skybeacon is that maneuvering flight MAY cause errors in the signal, I'm told.

We'll see what I find with ground connections when I get home. They've told me they'll replace the unit if that doesn't fix it. Assuming I can get through to them.

They are doubtless busy because of the approaching deadline for equipage. That said, they are also likely busy trying to deal with issues like mine.

MTV
 
FWIW, Anonymous mode will only mask your registration number for purposes of privacy from web site trackers. You still broadcast your ICAO number, so the FAA still knows who you are.

-Cub Builder

That has been my experience also. I was flying this am, called approach and asked them if they can still see my n number since I’m anonymous squawking 1200 . Answer was “ affirmative “
 
…..called approach and asked them if they can still see my n number since I’m anonymous squawking 1200 . Answer was “ affirmative “

Which ADS-B unit?

FWIW I deselected the anonymous mode yesterday on my Tailbeacon,
then file a PAPR request.
All good, no red flags.
Back to anonymous.
 
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I redid all connections to the SkyBeacon and flew it again. Requested a report, and results were consistent with previous reports, 23% NIC errors.

uAvionix received my message with that data, and have agreed to replace the unit.

MTV
 
I redid all connections to the SkyBeacon and flew it again. Requested a report, and results were consistent with previous reports, 23% NIC errors.

uAvionix received my message with that data, and have agreed to replace the unit.

MTV

have you tried bypassing the breaker and switch at panel or wherever to rule them out?
 
Which ADS-B unit?

FWIW I deselected the anonymous mode yesterday on my Tailbeacon,
then file a PAPE request.
All good, no red flags.
Back to anonymous.

Skybeacon. I was anonymous and requested papr report. Still working good. Your only hiding your n number from other airplanes and commercial flight tracker programs. Atc can click on any vfr target and if you have adsb your call sign will show up.
 
kase, I don't doubt your experience and professional knowledge of the topic. I'm still trying to figure out how that is possible given what I've read about how 978 UAT anonymous mode works. If it's true that any ATC facility can positively identify any anonymous VFR target based solely on the data transmitted by their 978 UAT device, then there's a piece of the puzzle that's still hidden. More than anything, I just want to understand how it all works.
 
For those that haven't seen a performance report.
 

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kase, I don't doubt your experience and professional knowledge of the topic. I'm still trying to figure out how that is possible given what I've read about how 978 UAT anonymous mode works. If it's true that any ATC facility can positively identify any anonymous VFR target based solely on the data transmitted by their 978 UAT device, then there's a piece of the puzzle that's still hidden. More than anything, I just want to understand how it all works.

I asked the question of the FAA in DC. He told me that even if your beacon is in anonymous mode, the FAA can still identify your aircraft with your ADS-B out signal. According to him, anon only prevents the public from identifying you.

And that’s all I know about that. Good luck trying to understand this “system”.

MTV
 
This is a vfr target 45 miles away from the radar antenna. Altitude is 4500.

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ATC can tag the target with any call sign, profanity or what ever. For this purpose the controller typed in "plane" and put it over the target.

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Then on his radar display in the corner his call sign shows up with his N number N183MA. That's how atc gets your n number when you are vfr not talking to them.

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My ADS-B wiring diagram for my experimental cub.
Please let me know if I forgot anything!
Merry Christmas friends!
IMG_3042.JPG


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 

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Skybeacon. I was anonymous and requested papr report. Still working good. Your only hiding your n number from other airplanes and commercial flight tracker programs. Atc can click on any vfr target and if you have adsb your call sign will show up.

Interesting.
I normally operate in anonymous mode.
I have requested a PAPR after an anonymous flight,
and got a "your request failed to generate a report" response.
Maybe I'll try it again next time I fly.
FWIW I've also gotten that response when I requested a PAPR immediately landing--
apparently it takes a few minutes for the info to trickle down into the system.
 
Another issue!
This has just come to my attention: https://generalaviationnews.com/201...on+goes+a+long+way&utm_campaign=TPOA-20191226

Those who were gung ho by installing their ADS-B system at the beginning, may find that now the date is here they no longer are in compliance. Why does this appear to me that this whole ADS-B requirement is nothing more than the avionics manufacturers petitioning the FAA to mandate an increase in their businesses?
 
Another issue!
This has just come to my attention: https://generalaviationnews.com/201...on+goes+a+long+way&utm_campaign=TPOA-20191226

Those who were gung ho by installing their ADS-B system at the beginning, may find that now the date is here they no longer are in compliance. Why does this appear to me that this whole ADS-B requirement is nothing more than the avionics manufacturers petitioning the FAA to mandate an increase in their businesses?

yep, and I noted earlier, whether you have an older unit or brand new, you should request a report occasionally to verify it’s in compliance.

MTV
 
….I have requested a PAPR after an anonymous flight,
and got a "your request failed to generate a report" response.
Maybe I'll try it again next time I fly......

I flew yesterday, in anonymous mode,
after which I requested a PAPR.
To my surprise, I did get a report.
So it is anonymous to everyone BUT the government, after all.
I guess the "scrambled signal" isn't quite as scrambled as I thought.
 
Regarding this, does anyone have a letter of failure or non-compliance they are willing to share?


Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...

Hello Mr. Vivion,

I’m contacting you to let you know your aircraft’s ads-B system is still consistently malfunctioning. I attached an ADS-B performance report for your review.

I’m told I have to put N7297 on the ATC filter temporarily until the issue is corrected. I attached a copy of the FAA Notice that explains the ATC Filter. Please feel free to contact me with any questions.

Regards,

Jeff

Jeffrey W. Denny
Aviation Safety Inspector
Technical Aircraft Maintenance Branch, FS-370 Avionics
ADS-B Focus Team
Phone: 703-309-9004

ADS-B Information

Request ADS-B Performance Report

Public ADS-B Performance Report (PAPR) User's Guide

This message also included PAPR reports indicating errors. It’s important to understand that I’d received other messages from Mr. Denny, which resulted in my uploading updated firmware. No notice of this new firmware was provided by uAvionix. It’s more than a little disappointing to learn of equipment updates from the FAA rather than the manufacturer of the equipment.

After uploading the update, I did another flight, and Mr. Denny verified that my SkBeacon was in compliance. A few months later, I received this message from the FAA. I can’t argue at all that the FAA hasn’t given me time to fix the problem.

For two weeks plus after I received this message, uAvionix left me hanging, after saying “they’d get back to me”. They didn’t till I started posting these notes on web forums.

Now, effective Dec 24, they’ve said they’ll replace the unit. We’ll see. Fortunately, I don’t live inside rule airspace, or as of next week I’d be grounded. Understand that I have to fix this thing THEN conduct a flight to verify, THEN request the FAA to accept my equipment again.

How does that fit in with the “Twenty minute installation”? BS put out by uAvionix?

frankly, at this point I would NOT recommend purchasing ANYthing from this company. I realize others have had positive experience with this equipment. Good for them. But, again, you’d best be requesting a PAPR report regularly, lest you get a similar ugly surprise.....and equally poor support.

MTV
 
And that is why I am waiting on the Decathlon until February. Plenty of Cubs to fly until then, and I can do a leisurely extensive annual. The electric fuel pump failed this month, so it gets fixed too. I probably won't fly upside down until March.
 
I flew yesterday, in anonymous mode,
after which I requested a PAPR.
To my surprise, I did get a report.
So it is anonymous to everyone BUT the government, after all.
I guess the "scrambled signal" isn't quite as scrambled as I thought.

So perhaps this helps answer a question I’ve had about operating in anonymous mode and SAR being able to “find” a missing plane. It would seem that the answer would be yes; that SAR folks could input your N number and find the latest track even if you’re not squawking your N number.

Last summer the AOPA regional fly-in was in Missoula, as close as it gets to where I live, so I flew in. One of the booths was manned by I guy I recognized. It took a bit but we realized he’d been a Beaver pilot on a charter my wife and I took in the early 2000s out of Juneau. The plane was equipped with the Capstone avionics of the day. I sat in the right seat and he explained it all to me as we flew out to the fishing lodge. Today he works for the FAA and is an ADSB expert. Just before the fly-in in Missoula there had been a mid air in Alaska and he’d been charged with going over the flight tracks of the two planes. It was interesting to me to hear some of how that works in today’s system.
 
I flew yesterday, in anonymous mode,
after which I requested a PAPR.
To my surprise, I did get a report.
So it is anonymous to everyone BUT the government, after all.
I guess the "scrambled signal" isn't quite as scrambled as I thought.

hotrod180, is it possible that you weren't in anonymous mode for the entire flight? If you'll humor a few more of my questions so I can get a better understanding anonymous mode:

Looking at your PAPR report:
On page 2, does the Tail Number and Broadcast ICAO match what should be in those fields for your plane? What does "Out Capability" say?
On page 4 under Missing Elements, are there any failures for Flight ID, or under Other Checks any errors with Mode 3A?

I'm going to try to collect some data from my GDL82 while sitting inside the hangar tonight. Might shed some more light on all of this.
 
Fly OUT in off mode?

I am thinking of installing OUT and IN soon. Can't I just fly with OUT off and the FAA wouldn't know I was even in the air, as I wouldn't be in any airspace that it was required, and I wouldn't be any different from a plane that didn't have OUT installed at all?
 
I am thinking of installing OUT and IN soon. Can't I just fly with OUT off and the FAA wouldn't know I was even in the air, as I wouldn't be in any airspace that it was required, and I wouldn't be any different from a plane that didn't have OUT installed at all?


Good question Kid. Who’s to know? 8)

BTW the anonymous mode is not an option with the 1090 transponders.
 
I don't recall if this has been discussed here. https://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdi.html It is simple to request the blocking. It takes at the most a couple weeks for it to be implemented. Your aircraft then does not show up on FlightAware etc. I requested blocking at the source level. It works. I've been blocked for about a year now. People can still receive your out directly if they have the equipment to do that but at least they don't get it from the tracking services.
 
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