S2D
MEMBER
Montana
Man there has been a rash of mid airs this year.
Something went wrong with their communications for that to happen !!
Oops, darn it...
- Thread starter Anne
- Start date
Man there has been a rash of mid airs this year.
Something went wrong with their communications for that to happen !!
behindpropellers
Registered User
NE Ohio
RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
But those guys were fire-fighting. I don't think they were looking at ADSB--the airspace was probably closed.
Hey, watch who you’re calling “everybody” there buckaroo. 8)
Still no reliable word on what happened. As mentioned above, in a Fire Traffic Area (FTA) the procedures are (supposedly) tightly controlled. Instructions for the drop are given by either Air Attack (orbiting above) or Lead plane (literally leading/showing desired drop run).
Two SEATs should not have been low level at the same time on a run, which has been reported to be what happened.
Two SEATs should not have been low level at the same time on a run, which has been reported to be what happened.
S2D
MEMBER
Montana
Quite a few years ago when they were still running SEATs out of the Local airport, I got to punching my calculator a little too hard figuring out how much the guy was making with his fleet of SEAT planes.
A little bit of sinful envy was starting to creep in !!! In the next couple years he lost 3 planes and pilots. All that envy magically disappeared for some reason. Can't imagine he got any sleep for a couple years.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
interesting on the mid air with beaver up here, at first they reported plane type as PA-23-250 .... that was by going by N number..... but turns out it was a pa-12 or-18... gary had RESERVED the n number in 2016 it says, but never registered it??? the reservation expired 2 months ago.....
https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N1904T
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:94:5253333571732::::P94_ENTRY_DATE:03-AUG-20
someone doing annuals on it must not have a check box for registration cert..... or maybe it's a FAA screw up... or????
https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N1904T
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:94:5253333571732::::P94_ENTRY_DATE:03-AUG-20
someone doing annuals on it must not have a check box for registration cert..... or maybe it's a FAA screw up... or????
akavidflyer
FRIEND
Soldotna AK
You can see the experimental sticker in at least one of the pics from the scene. You know as well as I do that there are A LOT of "outlaw" or "ghost" planes up here.
akavidflyer
FRIEND
Soldotna AK
https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=2587M
That kind of muddies the waters a bit doesn't it?
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
I am an old pilot. The Check of ADSB traffic is in my crosscheck. The mark one eyeball is your best chance up close. The ADSB tells you who is close. Your eyeball finds them. The Mark One eyeball is your only source for non ADSB.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
That’s strange. I’ll have to go back and see if I can see a number in pictures.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
akavidflyer
FRIEND
Soldotna AK
He was probably trying to go EAB and should have just gone Exhibition with it.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
The lawyers of the other plane’s occupants will have a hay day with this....
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
Thread tangent regarding ADSB, but I was in the middle-of-nowhere Vermont on Sunday cruising along my iPad starts flashing a traffic alert. I had just scanned it and there was no traffic within a city block (50 miles) so to have a traffic alert was very unusual.
I’ve been a naysayer on ADSB since inception aside from it being highly useful when flying with groups friends. But over the last year I’ve been warming up more and more to the idea.
So in looking for this traffic at exactly the same altitude and 2 miles on a direct convergence course, I just couldn’t find it visually. So I push the stick forward and drop 400 feet. Still not seeing it and close to a mile, I dropped another 400 feet and finally pick it out.
It’s an RV-6, and now I was low enough to paint the wings against the sky, making it visible. Sure enough I watch as he passes directly overhead my skylight at a 90 degree angle, likely having never seen me as I don’t have ADSB out. (And no radar repeater in that area)
I attempted to reach him on the comm to thank him for having ADSB out, but couldn’t reach him.
The invisibility of the front cross section of the RV-6 was striking at the same altitude. Without the ADSB alert it could have been a close encounter.
Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
I’ve been a naysayer on ADSB since inception aside from it being highly useful when flying with groups friends. But over the last year I’ve been warming up more and more to the idea.
So in looking for this traffic at exactly the same altitude and 2 miles on a direct convergence course, I just couldn’t find it visually. So I push the stick forward and drop 400 feet. Still not seeing it and close to a mile, I dropped another 400 feet and finally pick it out.
It’s an RV-6, and now I was low enough to paint the wings against the sky, making it visible. Sure enough I watch as he passes directly overhead my skylight at a 90 degree angle, likely having never seen me as I don’t have ADSB out. (And no radar repeater in that area)
I attempted to reach him on the comm to thank him for having ADSB out, but couldn’t reach him.
The invisibility of the front cross section of the RV-6 was striking at the same altitude. Without the ADSB alert it could have been a close encounter.
Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
Attachments
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
All you guys with ADSB fly around like your underwear is too tight. Most days I fly with earplugs and look out the open windows, stress-free. Not knowing some will say is bliss, and I will agree. I've had a bunch of near misses, just goes with the territory. If you think your safe with ADSB remember there are alot of us non reporting boggies out there. ;-)
Glenn
Glenn
Crash Jr.
Registered User
Anchorage, AK
Before ADS-B it musta been carnage. Planes falling from the sky...I shudder at the thought!
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
I recently installed ADS-B in (Stratux gizmo, displaying on Avare on my tablet),
and for me it is not the big game changer that it apparently is for some others.
Most of my local flying is near but not in "rule airspace",
so others may or may not have ADS-B out (I do).
One unfortunate aspect is the tendency for me to fixate on the screen,
either scanning for bogies or watching one already spotted,
when I should be looking out the window.
Maybe this isn't a factor for anyone else,
but it is with me.
and for me it is not the big game changer that it apparently is for some others.
Most of my local flying is near but not in "rule airspace",
so others may or may not have ADS-B out (I do).
One unfortunate aspect is the tendency for me to fixate on the screen,
either scanning for bogies or watching one already spotted,
when I should be looking out the window.
Maybe this isn't a factor for anyone else,
but it is with me.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Thank you for saying this hotrod. That is a natural unconscious tendency of most people, even when they deny it. Knowing that tendency exists is my major objection to installing the equipment. There is no question ADSB is a safety assistant.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
jimboflying
MEMBER
A friend just sent this report of his recent misadventure. Things to think about.
2020
Collision at 1,500 Feet
On June 24, 2020 I flew to Golden Lake in the floatplane (Citabria), had a picnic lunch with friends with social distancing, and took off about 2.15 p.m. heading for Constance Lake near Ottawa where I was keeping the plane at this time of year.
Climbed to about 2,700 feet and, at Golden Lake, could see the town of Renfrew clearly some 20 nautical miles away. Visibility was exceptionally good. Course, South Easterly towards Ottawa. Listening brief on the on-route frequency 126.7.
Approaching Arnprior Airport, I moved over the Ottawa River and called them (122.7) with my position, altitude, and direction of flight towards Ottawa.
I gradually lost height to 1,500 feet, reaching the beginning of the Ottawa practice area over the Chat Falls Dam on the Ottawa River. As is customary, I called “practice area”, (123.35) gave my position, height 1,500 feet, and that I was proceeding down the Ottawa River on the Ontario side. Further down river, I repeated this call opposite Mohr’s island.
There was little traffic, no one in sight, COVID 19 having curtailed training, only a couple of calls and these were of no conflict. No other transmissions were heard.
I was over a narrow inlet to the Ottawa River, Buckam’s Bay, when there was a tremendous bang, the plane shook, and a red and cream plane flashed by. I just had time to utter one word “yousonofabitch” and then I became very very busy as the plane started a sickening left spiral.
It immediately became clear I had no right rudder or any rudder control, limited elevator control and, initially the alerions seemed unduly stiff. I almost immediately increased to full power and it brought the nose up, but not quite horizontal, so it was clear we were going down. The tendency for left wing turning was difficult to control.
By bad luck, this had happened over Buckam’s Bay, an inlet only about 300 meters wide; not the wide expanse of the river. My objective was to put it down on the water, not into the bank or the trees on either side. I found I could vary the radius of the left turn with power and some aileron. Less power for a steeper bank over the land, more power for a gentler turn and keep it over the water.
I ended up about 20 feet above the water, not quite level at almost full power, but 100 yards away facing me was the bank and the trees. I contemplated a left turn but could see a boat about my 11 o’clock position and, besides the boat, the concern was: initiating a left turn may well cause a little height loss, catch a wing tip, and cartwheel in. I chose to land on the water straight ahead, closed the throttle, and she hit the water about a 20-degree angle.
The windshield caved in with a great rush of water, the plane tilted up about 110 degrees (I thought it was upside down), and I was underwater.
Some years ago, I had driven to Toronto for egress training. As you may be aware, a good part of the course is in a swimming pool strapped into a mock cockpit that is then turned upside down and they teach you how to get out.
Well, it works. My immediate reaction was “pause” and the door is on the right irrespective of what attitude you are in, and the door handle is just behind the pilot’s seat. I was reaching for the door handle when I saw the front jettison handle for the door. Citabrias have this feature; it disengages the hinge pins. I decided to turn that one first just in case the door could be jammed on a buckled frame and it would help clear it if necessary. I turned it and was just starting to go for the ordinary handle when the door just fell away into the depths of the river. I reached out to the top of the door frame with my right hand, undid my seat harness (with shoulder straps) and popped out.
I was met by a guy who had swam over from a nearby boat, was holding onto the wing strut, and was screaming “get out get out”. I told him I was going to just retrieve my wallet from the back pocket of the pilot’s seat, and he started to scream at me even more loudly. So, I let it go (yup, I lost my wallet), and swam the ten yards to the boat. Didn’t even inflate my life vest, saving the CO2 cartridge for next time.
Immediate Aftermath.
I borrowed a cell phone and called my wife Lynn that I was fine. Good job I did. Search and Rescue from Trenton called her less than 10 minutes later. It had received an ELT 406 burst on the collision and on the way down. They wanted to know my whereabouts.
The ambulance wallahs grabbed me, I was fine, a few cuts and bruises. Some tests then, despite my protestations, they insisted I be transported to hospital for a check up.
One thing about hospital emergency rooms, you can avoid a long wait, or any wait, if you crash land a plane into the Ottawa River.
A couple of hours of high tec. tests, things in your arm, electrodes, ultrasonics, and then I could go home.
Interestingly enough, I had some cuts, one on my nose that congealed, and on my legs. Did anyone at the hospital minister to me, clean me up, offer a couple of band aids. Nope, all high tec.
Where is Florence Nightingale when you need her.
Last Words
The guy that hit me was flying a Cessna, 3 adults and a kid, out sightseeing. They made it back to Arnprior and landed safely with damage to the bottom cowl, firewall, front wheel etc.
The Transportation Safety Board (TSB) is conducting an investigation and its report will be out in December. From my own observation of the wreckage, and not to prejudge the TSB, I seem to have been hit from behind, about my 4 o’clock position. There are prop strikes on the right aileron, the whole rudder fin is bent 180 degrees, and there is limited elevator movement.
Peter Cameron
2020
Collision at 1,500 Feet
On June 24, 2020 I flew to Golden Lake in the floatplane (Citabria), had a picnic lunch with friends with social distancing, and took off about 2.15 p.m. heading for Constance Lake near Ottawa where I was keeping the plane at this time of year.
Climbed to about 2,700 feet and, at Golden Lake, could see the town of Renfrew clearly some 20 nautical miles away. Visibility was exceptionally good. Course, South Easterly towards Ottawa. Listening brief on the on-route frequency 126.7.
Approaching Arnprior Airport, I moved over the Ottawa River and called them (122.7) with my position, altitude, and direction of flight towards Ottawa.
I gradually lost height to 1,500 feet, reaching the beginning of the Ottawa practice area over the Chat Falls Dam on the Ottawa River. As is customary, I called “practice area”, (123.35) gave my position, height 1,500 feet, and that I was proceeding down the Ottawa River on the Ontario side. Further down river, I repeated this call opposite Mohr’s island.
There was little traffic, no one in sight, COVID 19 having curtailed training, only a couple of calls and these were of no conflict. No other transmissions were heard.
I was over a narrow inlet to the Ottawa River, Buckam’s Bay, when there was a tremendous bang, the plane shook, and a red and cream plane flashed by. I just had time to utter one word “yousonofabitch” and then I became very very busy as the plane started a sickening left spiral.
It immediately became clear I had no right rudder or any rudder control, limited elevator control and, initially the alerions seemed unduly stiff. I almost immediately increased to full power and it brought the nose up, but not quite horizontal, so it was clear we were going down. The tendency for left wing turning was difficult to control.
By bad luck, this had happened over Buckam’s Bay, an inlet only about 300 meters wide; not the wide expanse of the river. My objective was to put it down on the water, not into the bank or the trees on either side. I found I could vary the radius of the left turn with power and some aileron. Less power for a steeper bank over the land, more power for a gentler turn and keep it over the water.
I ended up about 20 feet above the water, not quite level at almost full power, but 100 yards away facing me was the bank and the trees. I contemplated a left turn but could see a boat about my 11 o’clock position and, besides the boat, the concern was: initiating a left turn may well cause a little height loss, catch a wing tip, and cartwheel in. I chose to land on the water straight ahead, closed the throttle, and she hit the water about a 20-degree angle.
The windshield caved in with a great rush of water, the plane tilted up about 110 degrees (I thought it was upside down), and I was underwater.
Some years ago, I had driven to Toronto for egress training. As you may be aware, a good part of the course is in a swimming pool strapped into a mock cockpit that is then turned upside down and they teach you how to get out.
Well, it works. My immediate reaction was “pause” and the door is on the right irrespective of what attitude you are in, and the door handle is just behind the pilot’s seat. I was reaching for the door handle when I saw the front jettison handle for the door. Citabrias have this feature; it disengages the hinge pins. I decided to turn that one first just in case the door could be jammed on a buckled frame and it would help clear it if necessary. I turned it and was just starting to go for the ordinary handle when the door just fell away into the depths of the river. I reached out to the top of the door frame with my right hand, undid my seat harness (with shoulder straps) and popped out.
I was met by a guy who had swam over from a nearby boat, was holding onto the wing strut, and was screaming “get out get out”. I told him I was going to just retrieve my wallet from the back pocket of the pilot’s seat, and he started to scream at me even more loudly. So, I let it go (yup, I lost my wallet), and swam the ten yards to the boat. Didn’t even inflate my life vest, saving the CO2 cartridge for next time.
Immediate Aftermath.
I borrowed a cell phone and called my wife Lynn that I was fine. Good job I did. Search and Rescue from Trenton called her less than 10 minutes later. It had received an ELT 406 burst on the collision and on the way down. They wanted to know my whereabouts.
The ambulance wallahs grabbed me, I was fine, a few cuts and bruises. Some tests then, despite my protestations, they insisted I be transported to hospital for a check up.
One thing about hospital emergency rooms, you can avoid a long wait, or any wait, if you crash land a plane into the Ottawa River.
A couple of hours of high tec. tests, things in your arm, electrodes, ultrasonics, and then I could go home.
Interestingly enough, I had some cuts, one on my nose that congealed, and on my legs. Did anyone at the hospital minister to me, clean me up, offer a couple of band aids. Nope, all high tec.
Where is Florence Nightingale when you need her.
Last Words
The guy that hit me was flying a Cessna, 3 adults and a kid, out sightseeing. They made it back to Arnprior and landed safely with damage to the bottom cowl, firewall, front wheel etc.
The Transportation Safety Board (TSB) is conducting an investigation and its report will be out in December. From my own observation of the wreckage, and not to prejudge the TSB, I seem to have been hit from behind, about my 4 o’clock position. There are prop strikes on the right aileron, the whole rudder fin is bent 180 degrees, and there is limited elevator movement.
Peter Cameron
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Two local Fairbanks Ak. pilots banged their PA-18's within a week. Know them well and they survived. Must be August and soon September with increased seasonal accidents sometimes.
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=..._NAME,P95_REGIST_NBR:28-JUL-20,CHISANA,N1049P
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=..._NAME,P95_REGIST_NBR:04-AUG-20,WASILLA,N82566
Gary
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=..._NAME,P95_REGIST_NBR:28-JUL-20,CHISANA,N1049P
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=..._NAME,P95_REGIST_NBR:04-AUG-20,WASILLA,N82566
Gary
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Peter, great job keeping your wits with all that was going on
Glenn
Glenn
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Aviat Husky N298WY spun in 8/10/20? Pilot used the chute. Flight testing?
From the daily AIN records: https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=...Y_NAME,P95_REGIST_NBR:10-AUG-20,GROVER,N298WY
From Flightrader24 8/10/20. Plot shows it doesn't appear to have returned for landing: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/n298wy#252dd50d
Edit: Flightrader24 run plot shows descending at 5,500 FPM+ after what appears to be a slow flight series.
Gary
From the daily AIN records: https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=...Y_NAME,P95_REGIST_NBR:10-AUG-20,GROVER,N298WY
From Flightrader24 8/10/20. Plot shows it doesn't appear to have returned for landing: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/n298wy#252dd50d
Edit: Flightrader24 run plot shows descending at 5,500 FPM+ after what appears to be a slow flight series.
Gary
Last edited:
john schwamm
SPONSOR
Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
Testing IO-390 engine for certification I think.
