Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Earthx ETX900-TSO + FAtlee Dodge Battery Box in a PA-18-95
- Thread starter sdischer
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Crash Jr.
Registered User
Anchorage, AK
You could also mount an Enersys or Odyssey SBS-J16 battery in a modified mount in the stock location. Certified, extremely reliable, and lighter than something like a Gill battery. Not as light as an Earth-X but you could save some weight while also increasing battery power and staying within CG.
Don't the early cubs have a access panel for the battery? Seems like it would be easy to pull that panel and hook up a jumper. Or...I and I know you'll hate this but...hand prop it if the battery dies.
Don't the early cubs have a access panel for the battery? Seems like it would be easy to pull that panel and hook up a jumper. Or...I and I know you'll hate this but...hand prop it if the battery dies.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
That is what I ended up doing on the 90 hp and several 150/160 and a 180 hp. I use the battery box that is made by Hawker for the SBJ16 battery and install with Tee nuts and nut plates in the original battery hold down structure with AN3 bolts so I can get it in and out from the stock battery access hole.
Still saves you weight, the battery last for a long time, probably less troublesome than an EarthX and way easier on the wallet.
sjohnson
FRIEND
Boise, ID
The introductory price for the EarthX TSO battery is $699
https://earthxbatteries.com/product-category/certified-aircraft
The certified EarthX battery was intriguing, until I saw the price.
COLLEGE STATION, TX
That is what I ended up doing on the 90 hp and several 150/160 and a 180 hp. I use the battery box that is made by Hawker for the SBJ16 battery and install with Tee nuts and nut plates in the original battery hold down structure with AN3 bolts so I can get it in and out from the stock battery access hole.
Still saves you weight, the battery last for a long time, probably less troublesome than an EarthX and way easier on the wallet.
I think I agree with you. I am not sure that the extra hassle and money is worth it for saving 10 more pounds. I think this is really the best of both worlds and maybe a few less tacos per day and I can lose the 10 pounds in the front seat LOL. Thank you for your response.
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FdxLou
BENEFACTOR
Canton, GA
Actually the EarthX at 5 lbs is 23 lbs lighter than a Concorde AGM at 28 lbs. So, $699- $180 = $519. Thats a cost of $22.56 per pound. Hard to beat that for a cost per pound of weight savings on an airplane!
Lou
Lou
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
If you need the weight, use two! :smile:
Web
Web
Never did spin it. I put the tail ballast on almost as soon as I got it. I did loop and roll it. Not bad, but a lot of muscle needed to get it around.
With old airplanes (actually any airplane). It is important to check your W&B. When I got the Howard, the last W&B data I could find was from back in the 1950s when the wheel pants were installed. From then, until I got it, all the military radio equipment from behind the baggage compartment was removed, and 1960s and 1970s vintage radios installed (MK 12 and KX170). When I recalculated the W&B, with just me, min fuel in the front tank, and full oil (most forward loading), the airplane was 10” forward of the forward limit! It took 21 lbs of lead on the tail to bring it back to the forward limit. Everything after that moved the CG aft, and the range was wide enough that you couldn’t get it out of CG as long as you stayed within the max gross and baggage limit.
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hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
A previous owner of my 180 replaced a 28# standard battery (unspecified make & model) with a 15# Odyssey.
That's a 13# savings at a cost of about $185 = approx $14 per pound lost.
Replacing the 15# Odyssey now with a 5# $700 Earth-X would be a 10 pound loss: $70 per pound.
TurboBeaver
Registered User
Northern Maine
If you want EarthX performance for a pound more weight
there is a new Lithium Iron that's same size as Odessey 680 (16ah) 15lb battery. (Black one in the picture)Fits into an Odessey box. It's 20ah and has the built in disconnect circuitry same as the
Earth X. Price is $104..... Weighes just under 6lbs ,of course it's NOTcertified.
there is a new Lithium Iron that's same size as Odessey 680 (16ah) 15lb battery. (Black one in the picture)Fits into an Odessey box. It's 20ah and has the built in disconnect circuitry same as the
Earth X. Price is $104..... Weighes just under 6lbs ,of course it's NOTcertified.
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That’s a heck of an option once there’s confidence in that brand. I have confidence in the EarthX through experience and have no problem coughing up the extra few hundred for that warm fuzzy feeling. That said, for $104, you can buy a new one every year and have good used batteries in all your tractors and Jeeps.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Crash Jr.
Registered User
Anchorage, AK
Not certified
cubflier
MEMBER
Palmer, AK
Some LFP batteries are more for storage than high current discharge. I'm not saying this is the case here.
You might want to compare the specs of the Earthx to the Austin Tech Battery. The way these things are constructed inside is meaningful. Notice the difference in max charge current and discharge current. Try it on a land based vehicle first in case something goes wrong.
Let us know if it works out. Sure like the price.
Jerry
Austin Tech Battery
Earthx ETX900 Battery
You might want to compare the specs of the Earthx to the Austin Tech Battery. The way these things are constructed inside is meaningful. Notice the difference in max charge current and discharge current. Try it on a land based vehicle first in case something goes wrong.
Let us know if it works out. Sure like the price.
Jerry
Austin Tech Battery
Earthx ETX900 Battery
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courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
Look at the max permitted charge amps of the Austin, 4.5 amps! Versus the X's 80...... even my Rotax can charge more than that (18 amps) I too will stay with my X.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
You need to take notice of the max discharge rating. THAT is the maximum current the battery can safely put out without internal damage. The EarthX lists 150 amps max whereas the Austin shows 40 amps. Depending on how hard your engine turns over (new vs old, crankcase temperature, etc) you could easily hit the 100 amp mark.
Web
Web
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
If you want EarthX performance for a pound more weight
there is a new Lithium Iron that's same size as Odessey 680 (16ah) 15lb battery. (Black one in the picture)Fits into an Odessey box. It's 20ah and has the built in disconnect circuitry same as the
Earth X. Price is $104..... Weighes just under 6lbs ,of course it's NOTcertified.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Wish more people would post their bad experiences with these batteries. I think the EarthX is a great battery with built in safe guards that I would not be afraid of in the least after educating myself on Lithium Iron batteries. They are great at saving weight but I have been privy to those that go tits up prematurely without prior indication along with having issues in cold. Then throw in the cost. I haven't seen many posts from folks having any issues. Am I getting a skewed view of these batteries or are people just not posting their not so good experiences with them?
I’ve been running an Earth x for about 3 years (same battery) I’ve had no issues.
Couple things- if you leave your master on (an I do this regularly) you’ll need an alternate battery source to excite charging system ( just hand propping will get you home but with no electrical working)
Earthx jump pack should be considered part of the battery system, it will start your plane and bring alternator/battery back online.
Earth x is sluggish when cold.
In spite of that, it is popular with snowmobile community.
The recommended solution is to crank for a few seconds, wait a FULL MINUTE, then prime and start as per your normal routine. once the battery is “awake” it performs fine.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Ok Mr. Pierce, here's my views;
All batteries are a controlled chemical reaction, whether charging, discharging, or even sitting still. Chemical reactions slow down with lower temperatures. Ask the resident chemical engineer for the details but some chemicals seem to be more sensitive than others. So when people tell me that any battery works less well in cold weather, I just kinda shrug. I can't change the chemical make up, so they'll need to warm the battery to maintain it's performance.
In the last several years, I've had a couple of customers go through multiple EarthX batteries. One went through three of them. He found that the ground strap from the engine to the airframe had a high resistance. After he repaired that, he noticed that his charging system voltage was much more steady and he didn't have his battery die in a few flight hours. The other case was similar in that the customer ended up randomly installing batteries (both new and old) when the installed battery would die. During routine maintenance, he found evidence of electrical arcing under a nav/strobe unit on one wing tip. After that issue was repaired the batteries stopped dying.
As to an explanation, I think about info I was given when calling EarthX to find batteries for a customers non aircraft equipment. One unit used the old one diode wonder, charging system. I was told to never install an EarthX into one of these as they don't like the 'pulsing' of that charging system. One of the things both of the customers reported on the aircraft was unstable system voltage. While I don't have hard evidence, I suspect that any time you don't have clean, steady, DC power to recharge an EarthX, there can be problems.
Web
All batteries are a controlled chemical reaction, whether charging, discharging, or even sitting still. Chemical reactions slow down with lower temperatures. Ask the resident chemical engineer for the details but some chemicals seem to be more sensitive than others. So when people tell me that any battery works less well in cold weather, I just kinda shrug. I can't change the chemical make up, so they'll need to warm the battery to maintain it's performance.
In the last several years, I've had a couple of customers go through multiple EarthX batteries. One went through three of them. He found that the ground strap from the engine to the airframe had a high resistance. After he repaired that, he noticed that his charging system voltage was much more steady and he didn't have his battery die in a few flight hours. The other case was similar in that the customer ended up randomly installing batteries (both new and old) when the installed battery would die. During routine maintenance, he found evidence of electrical arcing under a nav/strobe unit on one wing tip. After that issue was repaired the batteries stopped dying.
As to an explanation, I think about info I was given when calling EarthX to find batteries for a customers non aircraft equipment. One unit used the old one diode wonder, charging system. I was told to never install an EarthX into one of these as they don't like the 'pulsing' of that charging system. One of the things both of the customers reported on the aircraft was unstable system voltage. While I don't have hard evidence, I suspect that any time you don't have clean, steady, DC power to recharge an EarthX, there can be problems.
Web
My EarthX is about 2.5 yrs old and has an automatic disconnect when the master is left on and and the battery is being discharged. Disconnect one of the terminals and it resets. There may or may not be enough juice left to turn a prop? I hand prop and the battery starts charging again, no problems.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Was just visiting a friend that is almost ready to fly his Rans S21 with Lightspeed ignition. He shied away from the EarthX because of the curve or lack there of when it discharges from say an alternator failure. In my case it would probably work great, lose the weight, don't need electrical except for amenities like a radio and to charge my hand held GPS. Got info from folks to help decide the pluses and minuses for each individual.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
About 45 minutes on a Carbon Cub with a Hawker battery. It will run down to about 6.5 volts and the ignition still works.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
I've been urging the experimental guys, using ignition systems that require power, to ALWAYS use a backup battery set up. If the alternator fails, the ignition system is running off the ships battery at that point. Doesn't matter what battery you have, when the voltage drops past a certain point, the ignition system WILL fail. A backup battery will only power the ignition system and only during an electrical emergency, so it will extend the time in operation of the ignition. I've had a surprising amount of pushback against installing a backup battery.
Web
Lots of planes use EI and EFI. The ones I’ve seen use EarthX and have a 2nd stand-by battery installed. Advantage to EarthX’s light weight for that. I think EFII sells a switching system. Maybe others do as well. TCW’s battery backup used to say it worked with EI but they removed that reference. If there’s anything I’d change on my plane it would be to remove the Pmags and install EFII’s system 32 ignition. Not a high priority but I’d like to try it someday.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Not enough. :evil:
