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ADS-B Mandate

Lefoy84 said:
No way ATC can track a primary Cub target where I fly.
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No, they just turn on the feed from the DEA balloon over Key West and can track you all over southern FL. Why do you think the MOCA over Key West is 15,200'?

Gordon Mirsch, your friend got away with that one because the controller failed to inform him that he was about to enter Class B airspace. The controller handbook places that obligation on the controller to inform of iminent class B entrance.
 
Memphis Iternational called Olive Branch airport to talk to me once. I didn't bust their airspace but they tried to say I did. I had the track on my GPS. I found out later they turn all the 1200s off. I had to argue but they backed down. With the FAA you are guilty till you prove yourself innocent and they will do everything to cover their ass. That is one of many things I learned after my midair.
 
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ADS-B may have prevented your mid-air. That's something to consider.

You guys who are worried about privacy and don't want to be tracked must have real problems with cell phones and how easily those are tracked. Some guys suggest turning off a txp to remain anonymous and then talk about buying satellite communicators with active tracking. I'm confused.
 
I'm not concerned with privacy. I am concerned about having unneeded equipment rammed down my throat.
Didn't Steve's mid-air happen at Sun & Fun? The last thing I'd want to do is fly into a really busy place like that and have anyone looking at anything except outside.
Actually, the last thing I'd want to do is fly any really busy place, for any reason, under any conditions. My purpose for having an airplane with big tires is to get away from all that crap and watch all the cool stuff out the window, not to get in the system and pretend I'm an airline pilot.
 
Carey Gray said:
I'm not concerned with privacy. I am concerned about having unneeded equipment rammed down my throat.
Didn't Steve's mid-air happen at Sun & Fun? The last thing I'd want to do is fly into a really busy place like that and have anyone looking at anything except outside.
Actually, the last thing I'd want to do is fly any really busy place, for any reason, under any conditions. My purpose for having an airplane with big tires is to get away from all that crap and watch all the cool stuff out the window, not to get in the system and pretend I'm an airline pilot.
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Those events (sunNfun & Osh) require you to turn off your transponder.
 
All the personal space doesn't prevent airplanes from running into each other. Recent history in Alaska has proven that. As recently as last week. If tech tools can help me not get plowed into by some gawking flight-see pilot who's flying low in order to look at everything BUT other airplanes? I'll use it.
 
Well, the transponder has been unneeded equipment crammed down the throats of the below 1500', 1200 guys. If you need it and it makes you safer, great.
If you buy it and ATC blanks it out under 1500', it was unneeded equipment crammed down our throats.
 
Like most equipment that offers significant benefits the market should adopt it simply because it has significant value. The government requiring it makes many guys push back regardless of the merits of the equipment. Portraying resistance as rugged individualism is about the regulation, not the technology. So it goes.
 
I don't see or try to portray myself as a rugged individual. The technology is great, if it makes you safer. I'd bet the guys around the Seattle area who install the ADS-B and never go above 1500' are never going to be seen for the same reason the mode C is blanked out. Too much stuff going on.
I'm non electrical and don't have a dog in this fight, so I'll head quietly back to the sidelines, get some popcorn and watch.
 
Lefoy84 said:
Must be nice to have all the answers.
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Did you really think that in the area with the most smuggling in the US, where US Customs has eveything from look down radar and FLIR to a mega power syn app radar on a balloon that can see all the way to JAX, that a transponderless Cub cannot be tracked at ATC? Really?
 
stewartb said:
Like most equipment that offers significant benefits the market should adopt it simply because it has significant value. The government requiring it makes many guys push back regardless of the merits of the equipment. Portraying resistance as rugged individualism is about the regulation, not the technology. So it goes.
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Stewart,

The technology does not in fact have "significant benefits" to many if not most of us who operate outside congested airspace. I have operated aircraft that were ADS-B equipped in VERY busy airspace, and that were equipped with large multi function displays. The traffic displays in those aircraft were perhaps useful, but in fact, much of the time, all they did was provide a distraction at precisely the time when eyes outside should have been the plan for traffic avoidance.

The FAA has now admitted that ADS-B will never replace radar, which was in fact the major selling point for the system to get Congress to fund it. April Fool.

As I noted in an earlier post, the weather information provided is generally not available over large expanses of the US, including Alaska, and even when it is available, it is significantly inferior to similar products from other suppliers.

Frankly, this is another government goat rope, and definitely NOT a valuable addition to general aviation safety.

MTV
 
Weather works great in Alaska, at least where I fly.

My close calls for smacking into other planes has been mostly in the boonies.

Capstone was well liked by the guys who participated.

I'm not championing the system, I just see benefits. I own a compliant system as a result. No fantasy, no internet permission required, no problem.

Over and out.
 
GeeBee said:
Did you really think that in the area with the most smuggling in the US, where US Customs has eveything from look down radar and FLIR to a mega power syn app radar on a balloon that can see all the way to JAX, that a transponderless Cub cannot be tracked at ATC? Really?
Click to expand...
It can see 200 NM in perfect conditions. Hardly to Jax. It is only in operation 59% of the time.

I would like to see a primary target displayed of a rag and tube plane at 150 NM and 500 ft. Dont think it can do it. Over the water--maybe. Not in ground clutter.
 
As I understand it, two aircraft equipped with both ADS-B out and in will communicate directly for traffic avoidance, without the need for ground stations and radar. If so, there will be a significant benefit for backcountry flyers. Up to now, ADS-B hasn't helped as much, and in the lower US backcountry not at all, because relatively few aircraft have ADS-B out, so that even fully equipped aircraft must be in range of an ADS-B ground station and the traffic has to be in range of radar to see it. ADS-B-in only equipped aircraft are "piggybacking" on other ADS-B-out aircraft.

So, if you have ADS-B out, it will be a benefit to leave it transmitting, even in anonymous mode, for direct traffic communication. The last two uncomfortable traffic encounters I've had have both been in mountainous terrain at 3000+ AGL. In one case, we were head-on and talking, and still couldn't see each other (I installed a pulse LED landing light after that one); in the other, I was overtaken by a Cirrus that went zooming by.

The ground-based weather is a crock, though; it would have been more effective to pay Sirius to provide it via satellite.
 
Only aircraft with 1090mhz systems communicate directly with each other! If some one installs a UAT system (978mhz) it only communicates through a ground station.
This is part of the confusion factor when planning out these installs.

Web
 
Lefoy84 said:
It can see 200 NM in perfect conditions. Hardly to Jax. It is only in operation 59% of the time.

I would like to see a primary target displayed of a rag and tube plane at 150 NM and 500 ft. Dont think it can do it. Over the water--maybe. Not in ground clutter.
Click to expand...

Ever seen a syn app radar work? It will paint your N numbers to the operator. It has that kind of resolution
 
GeeBee said:
Ever seen a syn app radar work? It will paint your N numbers to the operator. It has that kind of resolution
Click to expand...
So you are saying that these Aerostats are using Synthethic Aperture? They are typically used in moving aircraft or spacecraft to map stationary objects. Not as search radars.

What is your source?
 
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wireweinie said:
Only aircraft with 1090mhz systems communicate directly with each other! If some one installs a UAT system (978mhz) it only communicates through a ground station.
This is part of the confusion factor when planning out these installs.

Web
Click to expand...
Great. Since most GA systems are UAT, then this truly is worthless for backcountry use. Thanks FAA.
 
stewartb said:
Weather works great in Alaska, at least where I fly.

My close calls for smacking into other planes has been mostly in the boonies.

Capstone was well liked by the guys who participated.

I'm not championing the system, I just see benefits. I own a compliant system as a result. No fantasy, no internet permission required, no problem.

Over and out.
Click to expand...

Im discussing a slightly larger area than the area where you fly.

And yes, Capstone was well received by participants....for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that the FAA GAVE them the equipment. The equipment was standardized, so every box talks to every other box, and there are a LOT of GBTs out there in the flat country of western Alaska.

The he rest of the world is a bit different, and this "system" is SUPPOSED to be something it really isn't in the rest of the world. Again the sales pitch for funding this massively expensive system was to replace ATC radar at least to some large extent, and to provide "radar-like" coverage to parts of the country where there is no radar. That's working on the Yukon Delta, where there are lots of ground stations. Not so much elsewhere.

And now the FAA is saying this very expensive system won't replace radar.......another FAA success story, on the backs of the taxpayers and the aircraft owners.

Finally, the military has now stated that they are not installing ADS-B in their aircraft, so the potential for collision avoidance in MOA airspace is apparently off the table.

MTV
 
Thought somebody asked how can atc tell if you gave adsb or not? If you look at the call sign on UPS there is no white dot. On SKW there is a white dot. The white dot means they have adsb. I usually inhibit that dot because it makes no difference to me if you have it or not.


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In this photo you can see all aircraft have adsb. The airliners are on star arrival routes and the min separation function is being used on United and the King Air 6KA. Also a tfr is displayed. To my knowledge with the equipment we have if your are vfr sqawking 1200 and you have adsb there is no way for us to tell who you are.
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Military does fly outside MOAs and inside Class B, as in under the veil.

MOAs are strange anyway - normally ATC will discontinue flight following when you fly through a MOA, often with some disparaging comment. That probably will not change with ADS-b. If they want MOAs to be restricted, they should chart them that way. Opinion.
 
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