Summit Skis
- Thread starter Bushrat
- Start date
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
40m
SPONSOR
Shoreham, VT
Maybe not for you but that's just home field advantage, I seem to mow some cattails when I make that turn.
If I have an extra set of hands when mounting mine I can squeeze that one last thin washer in place which reduces side movement originating from the mount to virtually none. That little bit makes a difference 4 feet forward.
Merry Christmas and may your God Bless.
40m
SPONSOR
Shoreham, VT
Not on either of the two pair I have owned.
jrussl
BENEFACTOR
Madison, WI
I’ve run Trickairs on my Supercub for five years now and ran Federal 2000’s prior to that. I didn’t really notice much tracking difference between a skeg on the Federals and the no-skeg Trickairs. I think the drag of the tire in the snow may act as a skeg.
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RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
OK, I'm a complete ignoramus, but I'm going to go ahead and ask:
My summits didn't come with any documentation for installation, I'm guessing they thought it would be self-explanatory. I'll follow up with them to see if I can obtain instructions when the time gets closer.
I talked to cubcrafters (my builder assist FX3 is currently about 3 weeks into production) and they said the only airframe modification necessary for the summits are extra hole(s) in the landing gear mounting plate on the gear legs. I didn't get into great detail but it sounded like 2 holes were needed.
I asked if they could drill these at the factory but was told it would be better if it is done when the skis are first installed for correct rigging. The plane will not be wearing the summits until late 2022 since it won't be flying until April at the earliest.
Is there anything challenging about drilling these holes in the landing gear mounting plates? Even though it's experimental I'm planning to work with the A&P IA that works on my current Cessna to supervise all maintenance and especially on things like this that I'm ignorant about. I know my IA has done a lot of skis but I don't think they've done summits. Is this a common thing? Are drilling the holes in the gear mounting plates after they're on the airplane and legs are covered a problem?
Thanks!
My summits didn't come with any documentation for installation, I'm guessing they thought it would be self-explanatory. I'll follow up with them to see if I can obtain instructions when the time gets closer.
I talked to cubcrafters (my builder assist FX3 is currently about 3 weeks into production) and they said the only airframe modification necessary for the summits are extra hole(s) in the landing gear mounting plate on the gear legs. I didn't get into great detail but it sounded like 2 holes were needed.
I asked if they could drill these at the factory but was told it would be better if it is done when the skis are first installed for correct rigging. The plane will not be wearing the summits until late 2022 since it won't be flying until April at the earliest.
Is there anything challenging about drilling these holes in the landing gear mounting plates? Even though it's experimental I'm planning to work with the A&P IA that works on my current Cessna to supervise all maintenance and especially on things like this that I'm ignorant about. I know my IA has done a lot of skis but I don't think they've done summits. Is this a common thing? Are drilling the holes in the gear mounting plates after they're on the airplane and legs are covered a problem?
Thanks!
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Summit brackets don't need any holes. Lower shock strut bolt and 2 brake torque plate holes
Glenn
Thanks, that makes things easier. I guess I misunderstood what they were trying to convey.
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RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
You will match drill the two brake caliper holes when you install them. I thought on there site there was install instructions. Mine came with some. And I think the long bit to drill. The other hole is the lower shock strut. I leave the brackets on year round.
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cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Not much different from Dan’s. I think I’ll pursue something more substantial.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
How are they in 2' of new snow?
Gary
Gary
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
We were in over 3' of snow last winter and still got out ok. Not great but using what worked we were ok
Glenn
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
So those of you on Instagram probably follow Stol Iceland. These guys are innovative outdoor adventurists of the best kind.
For years they’ve been flying around with mountain bikes hanging below their SQ wings. When the surf is up they add a belly rack for surfboard transportation to the beach. And of course when it’s winter they lash skis to the jury struts and off they go.
But the best part for me is how they strived for an ideal wheel ski.
In my opinion, it’s very hard to beat the versatility and ease of use that is obtained by a “Summit-style” penetration ski. For non-commercial users one simply slides the bolt through, hooks the springs and cables and takes off.
The downfall is perhaps that any penetration ski works better with more horsepower. If you have 160-180-200 then largely one can overcome the wheel drag, whereas 85-90-100 hp may struggle in the wrong snow.
But for someone like myself that lives just outside of the heavy snowfall, the simplicity of use and on/off seems to be a winning factor. Of course, it sure would be nice to not change tires too.
Back to Iceland, I can’t find it at the moment but I believe in the 2017-18 timeframe they built a 4130 steel tube frame wheel ski for bushwheels. For reasons unknown, they were no happy with it, and built a new version using just aluminum, apparently a load bearing torsion box wrapped in a nicely shaped skin.
This, for me, would be ideal for those of us putting on/off during the year, leaving the bushwheels in place and keeping the AOA.
They also claim no noticeable difference in speed.
Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers… [emoji849]
For years they’ve been flying around with mountain bikes hanging below their SQ wings. When the surf is up they add a belly rack for surfboard transportation to the beach. And of course when it’s winter they lash skis to the jury struts and off they go.
But the best part for me is how they strived for an ideal wheel ski.
In my opinion, it’s very hard to beat the versatility and ease of use that is obtained by a “Summit-style” penetration ski. For non-commercial users one simply slides the bolt through, hooks the springs and cables and takes off.
The downfall is perhaps that any penetration ski works better with more horsepower. If you have 160-180-200 then largely one can overcome the wheel drag, whereas 85-90-100 hp may struggle in the wrong snow.
But for someone like myself that lives just outside of the heavy snowfall, the simplicity of use and on/off seems to be a winning factor. Of course, it sure would be nice to not change tires too.
Back to Iceland, I can’t find it at the moment but I believe in the 2017-18 timeframe they built a 4130 steel tube frame wheel ski for bushwheels. For reasons unknown, they were no happy with it, and built a new version using just aluminum, apparently a load bearing torsion box wrapped in a nicely shaped skin.
This, for me, would be ideal for those of us putting on/off during the year, leaving the bushwheels in place and keeping the AOA.
They also claim no noticeable difference in speed.
Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers… [emoji849]
Attachments
Has anyone tried running the summits as straight skis? If so, how much better was the performance? I might seriously consider it were it not for the fact that I have to go through the motorized gates at Merrill to get to the ski strip from my hangar, and without installing ski-brakes, that scares me a bit.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
While I realize that Trick Air and Summit are used all over down south, I really don't see them up here. We see lots of Federal, Landis and Aero skis; those and Fluidyne for wheel skis also.
I am with Stewart on the small pedestal attachments. While federal AWBs have a fairly narrow connection onto the landing gear, they have a stiff leg adding to the support, making the plane side attach reach from gear fitting all the way down- lots of torque resistance. The ski itself uses a large through bolt that goes through the main ski frame.
Be-bopping in and out of farm fields with some light snow, or groomed strips we see lots of photos of small attachments probably work for years. Out trapping where we are going over ice ridges, compacted snow/fresh snow/compacted snow in the same run, sometimes with a log hidden in the snow when you first drag it, ski abuse takes on another meaning.
While Aero skis have their issues, the double attachment (inside and outside of the tires) gives lots of support and reduces twisting torque on a very small bolt. I ran them on a 90 hp champ and they did fantastic, on the cub they were great even at altitude on the glaciers.
Until we fly down there in the east with you guys and see what you use your planes for, and until you come spend a few days going out on a 'normal' day up here, comparing notes on durability will be a lost cause
Every ski has it's advantages. If they work for you, enjoy! Just pray you are not the one discovering the maximum side load or frozen clod size the skis can take prior to breaking
Check your gear bolts and have fun
I am with Stewart on the small pedestal attachments. While federal AWBs have a fairly narrow connection onto the landing gear, they have a stiff leg adding to the support, making the plane side attach reach from gear fitting all the way down- lots of torque resistance. The ski itself uses a large through bolt that goes through the main ski frame.
Be-bopping in and out of farm fields with some light snow, or groomed strips we see lots of photos of small attachments probably work for years. Out trapping where we are going over ice ridges, compacted snow/fresh snow/compacted snow in the same run, sometimes with a log hidden in the snow when you first drag it, ski abuse takes on another meaning.
While Aero skis have their issues, the double attachment (inside and outside of the tires) gives lots of support and reduces twisting torque on a very small bolt. I ran them on a 90 hp champ and they did fantastic, on the cub they were great even at altitude on the glaciers.
Until we fly down there in the east with you guys and see what you use your planes for, and until you come spend a few days going out on a 'normal' day up here, comparing notes on durability will be a lost cause
Every ski has it's advantages. If they work for you, enjoy! Just pray you are not the one discovering the maximum side load or frozen clod size the skis can take prior to breaking
Check your gear bolts and have fun
I think the fitting attached to the gear should do just fine. I run AWB 2500A with bolt on ski fitting and a stiff leg attached to front gear leg. As Aktango58 says it is a very sturdy attachment. I have not heard of problems with the summit pedestals they are actually pretty short, if you had a failure I think it would be in the ski tunnel itself. If you want to reduce stress when turning run a penetrating tail ski. DENNY
I bought a pair of Trick Airs from another Alaskan. It was the first time I’d seen them. Until moving to Wolf Lake I never considered penetration skis but these new ski designs look interesting. The single bolt through the pedestal is similar to Summits but with Tricks the attach bracket is welded to the gear. I think the reason we don’t see many Tricks or Summits is economics. Both are more expensive than Airglas and there aren’t many in the used market. Trick Air says the best way to improve performance on their skis is to partially deflate the tire to flatten it and reduce tire drag. That should work with Airglas, too. Never heard it before. Interesting.
Attachments
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
I guess if the ski tips stay up above the snow they should do ok. Maybe rig them to do that. Once they submarine it's hard to speed up or turn. Looking forward to some pics and reports as the convenience, especially in the Spring as runways melt, would be nice. I assume the bottoms can be made larger if needed?
Gary
Gary
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
As I eluded to in the post George, I do believe you’re right, the casual users like myself that aren’t using it as commercial travel can get away with a much lighter and potentially less rugged ski than those of you working them.
Crash, if you don’t like the head angle, or the link setup, or something about what they did to create a better AOA and still retain a shocked tailwheel, why don’t you tell us what that is? Otherwise your post is simply irrelevant.
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Crash, if you don’t like the head angle, or the link setup, or something about what they did to create a better AOA and still retain a shocked tailwheel, why don’t you tell us what that is? Otherwise your post is simply irrelevant.
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jrussl
BENEFACTOR
Madison, WI
I have seen this modification to the Trickair Ski to improve its performance. From what I understand, you taxi into some soft snow and then slip this cover plate under the tire. Deflating the tire a bit helps even more by eliminating the bump from the bottom surface. Some inflation is still necessary to support the cover…….as I understand. Experimental only of course.
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