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Explorer
08-03-2020, 09:37 PM
Hi Folks,

Looking for new prop for the Scout - 1974...

Requesting suggestions Aluninum or Composite? Fixed pitch, no constant speed drive.

Currently a McCauley aluminum.

MT, Hartzell, McCauley Etc?

Thanks!

cubscout
08-03-2020, 10:37 PM
Explorer, how do you plan to use the Scout? What's your budget? That should help with your decision, and may help direct the free advice on this forum. Fortunate to have some good options on the 8GCBC

Thanks. cubscout

Explorer
08-04-2020, 07:12 AM
Explorer, how do you plan to use the Scout? What's your budget? That should help with your decision, and may help direct the free advice on this forum. Fortunate to have some good options on the 8GCBC

Thanks. cubscout

Cubscout,

Appreciated.

Intend on upgrading the hubs and brake calipers to ABI. And, start off with 8.50 x 6 tires. With the option down the road to change up to Alaskan Bushwheels if need be.

However my current plan is tarmac most of the time and grass strips occasionally.

So the takeoff performace requirement is average as well cruise requirement.

Appreciate your thought's on options and price points. Two blade fixed.

Thank you!

Scouter
08-04-2020, 09:54 AM
After owning 3 scouts of different years, I would tell you to consider adding a governor, and going constant speed. I had MT of 2 and 3 blades. Liked em all, 3 blade faster, 2 blade climbed better. I dont have any expericed with the newish Hartzell trailblazer, but have been around a few on Huskys and FX carbon cubs. Everybody likes them.

I dont think there are many fixed pitch props on the TCDS other than 8040 Mccauley. I havent looked at the Scout STC list for awhile. I would call Backcountry Aircraft in Idaho, those guys know Scouts and how to make them sing. ACA factory should have answers as well. You really need CS to fully take advantage of the 0360. my opinion

Jim

Explorer
08-04-2020, 10:29 AM
After owning 3 scouts of different years, I would tell you to consider adding a governor, and going constant speed. I had MT of 2 and 3 blades. Liked em all, 3 blade faster, 2 blade climbed better. I dont have any expericed with the newish Hartzell trailblazer, but have been around a few on Huskys and FX carbon cubs. Everybody likes them.

I dont think there are many fixed pitch props on the TCDS other than 8040 Mccauley. I havent looked at the Scout STC list for awhile. I would call Backcountry Aircraft in Idaho, those guys know Scouts and how to make them sing. ACA factory should have answers as well. You really need CS to fully take advantage of the 0360. my opinion

Jim

Thx Jim,

The Scout is new to me. I don't disagree about the performance of the CS Prop. I'm trying to make a simple machine to start with and grow from there.

Especially if it really grabs me.

Thank you!

BC12D-4-85
08-04-2020, 10:42 AM
As I recall some props have yellow op arcs that are to be avoided. Like get rough enough to be felt. Transitioning through them used to be annoying especially when slow flying in terrain. Maybe some are smoother.

Gary

cubscout
08-04-2020, 11:21 AM
Explorer, sounds like you've got the right idea: Keep it simple for now. Really learn to fly the plane. Stick with the McCauley 1A-200 fixed pitch (even with the annoying yellow band) and 8.50's for now. As your proficiency and horizons change, THEN consider changing equipment.

To your original question, in addition to the fixed pitch Mac, there are metal Hartzell props on the TCDS which are heavy and less efficient for takeoff and climb, and have a different annoying yellow band. Some of the metal Hartzells have an expen$ive recurring A.D. MT's are good, smooth, and on the TCDS; I believe the composite Hartzell is by STC. Both of the latter have much better airfoils than the earlier props.

Here's a link to the Type Certificate Data Sheet: https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/CEDDC4D578C0102D86257AEF006C5BB2?OpenDocument and to the Airworthiness Directives: https://www.univair.com/type-certificate-a21ce/

All the best on your Scout, and please let us know how you're doing. There are actually quite a few Scout operators on this website.

Thanks. cubscout

mvivion
08-04-2020, 04:30 PM
Those restricted operating ranges on the O-360 with metal props are not just to avoid felt vibration.....they involve some potentially destructive harmonics.

The composite props eliminate those restricted operating ranges, due to the vibration damping characteristics of the composite blades.

I'd stay with the standard prop, fly the airplane to proficiency, THEN decide if you want or need a different prop. Scout is a great airplane.

MTV

skywagon8a
08-05-2020, 05:41 AM
Thx Jim,

The Scout is new to me. I don't disagree about the performance of the CS Prop. I'm trying to make a simple machine to start with and grow from there.

Especially if it really grabs me.

Thank you!
Explorer, This plane is new to you? Is there something wrong with the existing prop which requires it's replacement? Long ago I installed a set of floats on the first 8GCBC in New England. When I flew it for a rigging check prior to installing the floats, I was disappointed in it's take off performance. It was the fixed pitch prop which would not allow the 180 hp engine to operate to it's best performance. The long landing gear and the weight on the tail held back the initial take off run. When it was on floats with the tail up level it would jump out of the water like a scared cat. This with the very large owner in the front seat and me in the back. The later models with the constant speed props were different machines. The take off performance deficiencies of the fixed pitch were gone.

I suggest you get used to the plane with the 8:50 tires and the existing prop, save your $$ and then convert to a constant speed prop. The Scout does need a constant speed for best overall performance.

scout88305
08-07-2020, 05:00 PM
The prop on my 74 Scout was a fixed pitch 1A200/HFA8041, I had it balanced and the plane was light with small tanks. I ran at 2350 and burned 8GPH. Very smooth and about 112 MPH on 8.50's. Several trips to AK were quite enjoyable. My current Scout has the MT 2 blade. I am faster but burn more fuel, plane heavier with large tanks and leather, doesn't feel like the older wood winged model. I preferred the old ride in all honesty. It was simple and I didn't have to dink with settings. I found the above prop for $5700 just now online, I think that was not a terrible deal with what the 0320 Borer prop selling for.

Explorer
08-07-2020, 06:38 PM
Everyone,

I appreciate all your helpful advice.

If anyone has changed up to Constant Speed Drive/Prop and has a McCauley IA200/HFA8041 hanging on the wall in the Hangar. Please send me a PM.

Referrals appreciated.

Thank you!

Explorer
08-07-2020, 06:45 PM
The prop on my 74 Scout was a fixed pitch 1A200/HFA8041, I had it balanced and the plane was light with small tanks. I ran at 2350 and burned 8GPH. Very smooth and about 112 MPH on 8.50's. Several trips to AK were quite enjoyable. My current Scout has the MT 2 blade. I am faster but burn more fuel, plane heavier with large tanks and leather, doesn't feel like the older wood winged model. I preferred the old ride in all honesty. It was simple and I didn't have to dink with settings. I found the above prop for $5700 just now online, I think that was not a terrible deal with what the 0320 Borer prop selling for.

Appreciate your comments.

Your former Scout wouldn't have been 74-14 ? This one did a pass thru MN & WI on Wipline Amphibs at one time.

scout88305
08-07-2020, 06:58 PM
Mine was 74-109, it's on Barnstormers now with amphibs. I sold it 5 years ago on wheels.

Explorer
08-07-2020, 07:32 PM
Mine was 74-109, it's on Barnstormers now with amphibs. I sold it 5 years ago on wheels.

Sounds like Bellanca was full steam ahead. They built approximately 200 Scouts in 1974 - 75.

scout88305
08-07-2020, 08:26 PM
A different world, planes affordable, farmers and ranchers purchased them. Sorenson made a sprayer for our plane. Attorneys and product liability didn't crush the American business ingenuity and development. People were employed and engaged instead of sucking the Gov't tit and protesting others success because they work hard. Your plane was on the tail end of that great run that started after the end of WWII

Explorer
08-08-2020, 03:48 AM
A different world, planes affordable, farmers and ranchers purchased them. Sorenson made a sprayer for our plane. Attorneys and product liability didn't crush the American business ingenuity and development. People were employed and engaged instead of sucking the Gov't tit and protesting others success because they work hard. Your plane was on the tail end of that great run that started after the end of WWII

Indeed, it had a 90 Gal Spray Tank and I believe rated for 2600# TOW.

I was there, I learned to fly in 1973. This is a trip down memory lane. I flew a Citabria in 76 - C-FLFF in the Maritimes.

WhiskeyMike
08-09-2020, 07:45 AM
I had a couple of scouts and to be honest I don’t remember the yellow vibration range for the Fixed pitch model although I’m pretty certain it applied to the Hartzell constant speed. The 1A200 is certainly the simplest and lowest maintenance and a good compromise all around. Somebody please straighten me out on this vibration range for the Fixed pitch propeller I’m really curious.

cubscout
08-09-2020, 08:11 AM
Mike, here's the text from the TCDS:

1 . Propeller (Landplane Only)
McCauley 1A200HFA80 (Fixed Pitch)
Static rpm. at maximum permissible throttle settings:
Not over 2350, not under 2100 (for Restricted Category a i r c r a f t u t i l i z e d f o r
chemical dispensing operations - not over 2360, not under 2260) No
additional tolerance permitted
Diameter: Not over 80 in., not under 79 in.
Caution: Avoid operation between 1700 and 2100 rpm during descending
flight.

Parsing this closely, it seems to imply that cruising flight in the 1700-2100 range might be OK, but not descending flight. I recall a noticeable increase in vibration in this range, but it's been a while, and our operation was either full-out climb or descending as rapidly as engine would safely tolerate in a glider tow operation. As noted, the metal Hartzell props have a yellow band too. The fixed pitch McCauley worked well for this type of operation, and that's what the Fisher Agency ran on its Scouts for the Airforce Academy glider tow contract, though re-pitched from 41" to 39". The AFA is at around 6900' MSL.

Thanks. cubscout

scout88305
08-09-2020, 08:24 AM
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/AOCADSearch/F73D9F73D444C2DE86256A3400591552?OpenDocument

scout88305
08-09-2020, 08:29 AM
I never noticed anything bad other than a bit of vibration, looking at wildlife and such it was a common rpm range I could be in, I just avoided it if possible. I'm wondering if it was to reduce wear on crank or prop?

mvivion
08-09-2020, 01:11 PM
Mike, here's the text from the TCDS:

1 . Propeller (Landplane Only)
McCauley 1A200HFA80 (Fixed Pitch)
Static rpm. at maximum permissible throttle settings:
Not over 2350, not under 2100 (for Restricted Category a i r c r a f t u t i l i z e d f o r
chemical dispensing operations - not over 2360, not under 2260) No
additional tolerance permitted
Diameter: Not over 80 in., not under 79 in.
Caution: Avoid operation between 1700 and 2100 rpm during descending
flight.

Parsing this closely, it seems to imply that cruising flight in the 1700-2100 range might be OK, but not descending flight. I recall a noticeable increase in vibration in this range, but it's been a while, and our operation was either full-out climb or descending as rapidly as engine would safely tolerate in a glider tow operation. As noted, the metal Hartzell props have a yellow band too. The fixed pitch McCauley worked well for this type of operation, and that's what the Fisher Agency ran on its Scouts for the Airforce Academy glider tow contract, though re-pitched from 41" to 39". The AFA is at around 6900' MSL.

Thanks. cubscout

Yes, there are a number of "restricted operating ranges" applicable with various propellers on the O-360 engines. If you read a bit further in that TC, it lists the restrictions for the Hartzell CS props as well:
Propeller (a) Hartzell HC-C2YR-1BF/F7666A (Constant Speed) or Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF/F7666A (Constant Speed) Placard Required: "AVOID 2000-2350 CONTINUOUS OPER."
3. Propeller (a) Hartzell HC-C3YR-1RF/F7282 (Constant Speed) Diameter: Placard Required: "AVOID 1950-2350 CONTINUOUS OPER. BELOW 15 IN M.P

My philosophy on RPM restrictions on engine/prop combinations is simple: I treat them as gospel. I have no idea what prompted these restrictions, and I also have no desire to find out.

The good news is that composite props generally eliminate all these restrictions on the O-360.

MTV

skywagon8a
08-09-2020, 01:24 PM
From the propeller Type Certificate P-874
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/95170e7eb56254a68625787a0069bb3b/$FILE/P-874%20Rev%2020.pdf

NOTE 9: 1A200/HFA Lycoming O-360 series(Up to 180 hp and 2700 rpm) Max. Dia. 80" Min. Dia. 79“ "Avoid continuousoperation whiledescendingbetween 1700 to2100 rpm”

This limitation is not just for the 8GCBC, it is for any airplane with this engine/prop combination.

Explorer
08-09-2020, 05:05 PM
On take off with this combination and full power. Do you recall, does the engine rev to about 2400 to 2450?

cubscout
08-09-2020, 06:37 PM
Explorer, oh heck yeah: More than that, even with a slow glider in tow. At 75 knots (NOT mph!) fairly close to redline, if prop pitch correct.

Thanks. cubscout

scout88305
08-09-2020, 06:59 PM
My scout on t o. was 2600 plus I could redline 2750 plus in level flight