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Steve Pierce
02-21-2020, 09:55 AM
Doing a condition inspection on a high time (600 plus hours/2 yrs) Carbon Cub FX3. The aileron cable that goes over the spar is worn at the pulley. This pulley is smaller than on Piper aircraft as the pulley is on top of the spar rather than behind it thus making a smaller radius. I think between that and the higher cable tensions 40 plus/minus 5 lbs are causing this issue. I wasn't expecting to find anything but ran my finger along the cable where it runs across the pulley and it felt rough. After picking at it with my thumb nail I exposed cable strands. Curious if anyone else finds anything like this since the Carbon Cub SS, EX/FX2 and EX/FX3 are designed this was. The X Cub uses a push rod.

Also, there is no IPC (illustrated parts catalog) for these airplanes and when you order parts be aware that what I call the top aileron cable from the top of the aileron bellcrank to the bottom of the rear stick is called a bottom aileron cable (prt# SK97410) by Cub Crafters and the balance cable from the bottom of the aileron bellcrank on one side, through the fuselage to the bottom aileron bellcrank on the other side is considered the top aileron cable (prt# SC97400) by Cub Crafters. Hope this saves some else having to wait a week when they chose not to spend the extra money on overnight shipping for the parts. This is not a dig at Cub Crafters but a shout out to the folks who fly and maintain these aircraft as to what to look for in the field.

47170

47171

spinner2
02-21-2020, 06:07 PM
Thanks for the Head's Up Steve. I read your post while eating breakfast and checked my EX this afternoon. I've got about 900 hours on mine and they are whisker-free.

Such a nice day here I went for a flight too.

47172

RaisedByWolves
02-21-2020, 06:36 PM
Good luck if you ever have to change the balance cable. That conveniently runs through the torque tube. I think the later models have a Clevis on the cable on the left wing. Giant pain in the rear replacing the cable. You canít get to any of the pulleys.


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courierguy
02-21-2020, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=spinner2;766874]Thanks for the Head's Up Steve. I read your post while eating breakfast and checked my EX this afternoon. I've got about 900 hours on mine and they are whisker-free.

Such a nice day here I went for a flight too.

Makes me wonder if your system is running less tension. When I had very stiff rudder cables on my RANS, I was surprised to see the cable grow whiskers after less then 1000 hours, especially as they didn't turn any corners, just some minor angles. When I got much softer springs, the lesser tension solved the issue.

mike mcs repair
02-21-2020, 07:15 PM
[QUOTE=spinner2;766874]Thanks for the Head's Up Steve. I read your post while eating breakfast and checked my EX this afternoon. I've got about 900 hours on mine and they are whisker-free.

Such a nice day here I went for a flight too.

Makes me wonder if your system is running less tension. When I had very stiff rudder cables on my RANS, I was surprised to see the cable grow whiskers after less then 1000 hours, especially as they didn't turn any corners, just some minor angles. When I got much softer springs, the lesser tension solved the issue.

Minor angles are ALWAYS worse than sharp angles for some reason.... go figure...


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CamTom12
02-21-2020, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=courierguy;766880]

Minor angles are ALWAYS worse than sharp angles for some reason.... go figure...


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Really? I wouldnít have guessed that. Any idea why?

mike mcs repair
02-21-2020, 11:27 PM
[QUOTE=mike mcs repair;766881]

Really? I wouldnít have guessed that. Any idea why?

no

SteveE
02-22-2020, 07:00 AM
Just curious, how many whiskers do you let it grow before it becomes unairworthy?


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courierguy
02-22-2020, 11:24 AM
On my plane and my crane rigging, any whiskers at all and it gets replaced. Wire rope is so cheap, why not? Lesser angles, less wear.... Interesting, news to me but yeah that seems to be the case.ca'nt imagine why?!

Steve Pierce
02-22-2020, 05:17 PM
Just curious, how many whiskers do you let it grow before it becomes unairworthy?


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AC 43.13-1B 7-149. CABLE SYSTEM INSPECTION.Aircraft cable systems are subject to a variety ofenvironmental conditions and deterioration. Wireor strand breakage is easy to visually recognize.Other kinds of deterioration such as wear,corrosion, and/or distortion are not easily seen;therefore, control cables should be removedperiodically for a more detailed inspection.a. At each annual or 100 hour inspection,all control cables must be inspected for brokenwires strands. Any cable assembly that has onebroken wire strand located in a critical fatiguearea must be replaced.b. A critical fatigue area is defined as theworking length of a cable where the cable runsover, under, or around a pulley, sleeve, or througha fair-lead; or any section where the cable isflexed, rubbed, or worked in any manner; or anypoint within 1 foot of a swaged-on fitting.
http://www.337skymaster.com/documents/ch07-08cableinspection.pdf

SteveE
02-22-2020, 05:30 PM
Aha, thanks Steve.


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txpacer
02-22-2020, 06:46 PM
What size cable does CC use on the Carbon Cubs?

Steve Pierce
02-22-2020, 06:48 PM
1/8"

bob turner
02-22-2020, 08:47 PM
Could it be the pulley material? The old pulleys were Bakelite. There are some plastics that eat steel for lunch.

J3 cables last so long it is embarrassing! My cables lasted for several thousand hours after I bought my Cub, and I think they had a thousand hours on them when I bought it. I have a pair of non-Bakelite pulleys down at the bottom, and they eat cables at about 500 hours. Cable is, indeed, cheap.

I have all the tools, so I donít need to wait for shipment.

stewartb
02-22-2020, 08:55 PM
I'd guess the batch of cable. I had an aileron balance cable changed after 35 years. The replacement lasted 6 years and with not many hours. The only way to explain that is cable materials.

courierguy
02-22-2020, 09:42 PM
I just bought a 325' length of USA made 9/16" anti rotation wire rope for my 30 ton boom truck, $800.00, it'll pay for itself in less then a day. Plus I'll sell the old rope, with 6800 hours TT on it (but no broken strands yet felt) for maybe $100.00 to a farmer or rancher. On the other extreme, I have a reel of 1/16" stainless that I bought in '80 for rigging ultralight tip rudder controls, and continue to use for misc. things around the home and shop, I have a couple lifetime supplies of the stuff. Sorry to hear that maybe the quality is getting erratic!

On a somewhat related subject, I just had a castellated nut on a shackle bolt somehow lose the cotter pin on some of my misc. truss rigging for the crane, and I only noticed it as the pin damn near came loose, as the nut had backed off and fallen off. Subject to a lot of wear and tear on the job site, but I still can't account for how it could have came off. It made me be more vigilante on inspecting the plane's castellated/pinned bolts. I had gotten lax on inspecting the crane rigging apparently to let this get as far as it did, this was a good wake the hell up call.

Steve Pierce
02-29-2020, 12:14 PM
Cables replaced, look worse after bending them the opposite direction.
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bob turner
02-29-2020, 12:28 PM
Yow! Stainless?

Steve Pierce
02-29-2020, 12:31 PM
Yow! Stainless?

No, galvanized. Checked one with almost 500 hours last week that was set 10 lbs more cable tension than the worn ones and no issue whatsoever. I am thinking bad batch of cable.

CharlieN
02-29-2020, 01:30 PM
No, galvanized. Checked one with almost 500 hours last week that was set 10 lbs more cable tension than the worn ones and no issue whatsoever. I am thinking bad batch of cable.
It has been building on my mind to ask if Stl or Galvanized, that is answered.
Probably hard to answer but how much content of the CC planes would be of Chinese origin. Allot of good stuff is coming out of there but I expect it much be possible the heat treat or alloy might not be spot on with that cable.

BC12D-4-85
02-29-2020, 02:56 PM
Do the strands show any flattening or shine from slippage on the pulley (as in worn strands vs just breakage)? Smooth faced hard pulleys can resist turning in other applications when (I assume) the cable moves quicker than the pulley can turn. Old micarta pulleys get wear patterns that mimic the cable twist and maybe grip better.

I've seen nylon float plane pulleys wear cable fast.

Gary

kase
11-14-2020, 01:10 PM
Just replaced aileron cables to upper horn. L/R cables both starting to show a strand over the pulley that exits top of the wing. 2500 TIS
52317

cubdrvr
01-04-2021, 10:19 PM
Checked mine today. Got 2 cables with 1-2 strands broken. One is near lower fuselage pulley and one where rudder cable exits the empennage. First ones in 2100 hrs.
So......how many manufacturers are there for the 7/19 cable? The above posts have me wondering about quality control.
Mine are stainless. Recommendations from anybody but Pierce would be appreciated :help

RaisedByWolves
01-04-2021, 10:41 PM
Checked mine today. Got 2 cables with 1-2 strands broken. One is near lower fuselage pulley and one where rudder cable exits the empennage. First ones in 2100 hrs.
So......how many manufacturers are there for the 7/19 cable? The above posts have me wondering about quality control.
Mine are stainless. Recommendations from anybody but Pierce would be appreciated :help

Seems like the stainless wears much faster. Univair makes cables, tested and fit perfectly. Direct copy of piper.


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mike mcs repair
01-04-2021, 11:31 PM
Checked mine today. One is near lower fuselage pulley


Normal spot. Also check where your shoes rub on cable by rudder pedals.


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cruiser
01-05-2021, 07:58 AM
https://www.askbob.aero/content/aircraft-control-cable-comparison-wear-behavior-stainless-and-galvanized-carbon-steel