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Charlie Longley
09-22-2019, 09:39 AM
Does anyone know if you can tow a glider with the SS?

Bill Rusk
09-22-2019, 10:25 AM
I don’t think the FAA will allow any experimental aircraft to tow. I had an old time, excellent FAA inspector try very hard to get that for me with my first experimental Cub. Ran it all the way up the flagpole and got a “no”. Even if the glider was experimental and both aircraft were owned by me, it was “no”
I was told it “might” be possible if both tug and glider were experimental light sport.

Just what I was told. You might get a different answer from a different inspector in a different region.

Bill

hotrod180
09-22-2019, 10:35 AM
You been eyeballing that Carbon Cub abandoned on the ramp over there, Charlie? ;-)

Charlie Longley
09-22-2019, 11:21 AM
I don’t think the FAA will allow any experimental aircraft to tow. I had an old time, excellent FAA inspector try very hard to get that for me with my first experimental Cub. Ran it all the way up the flagpole and got a “no”. Even if the glider was experimental and both aircraft were owned by me, it was “no”
I was told it “might” be possible if both tug and glider were experimental light sport.

Just what I was told. You might get a different answer from a different inspector in a different region.

Bill

The SS is a LSA. Can you tow with an LSA?

I just looked at the regs. It appears you can-
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=9338a6e4f748521e5755d47cb341186d&mc=true&node=se14.2.91_1327&rgn=div8

tcraft128
09-22-2019, 04:17 PM
Funny thing about that, my cub is ok to tow gliders as long as it not for hire. It's in the operating limitations. All I had to do was ask.

Charlie Longley
09-23-2019, 08:39 AM
Funny thing about that, my cub is ok to tow gliders as long as it not for hire. It's in the operating limitations. All I had to do was ask.

Is that an SS? I am thinking of doing it for hire.

tcraft128
09-23-2019, 09:52 AM
Is that an SS? I am thinking of doing it for hire.

No, and I guess I should have said that, just a plane ol' experimental cub. My apologies for the thread drift.

dgapilot
09-23-2019, 10:25 AM
Keep in mind that operating limitations for SLSA and ELSA are all controlled by Order 8130.2 (currently J version). Depending on when your aircraft was certified, the op limits may look very different from what would be issued today. For an SLSA, you are limited on installing equipment “approved” by the manufacturer, so if Cubcrafters doesn’t offer a tow hitch, then no towing with an SLSA. Convert to ELSA? Possibly, but you still need to comply with 91.319


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kestrel
09-23-2019, 12:20 PM
I don’t think the FAA will allow any experimental aircraft to tow.Bill

It has happened at least once. It was Burt Rutan and it was also decades ago:

http://stargazer2006.online.fr/aircraft/pages/solitaire.htm


Initially, Burt settled on the Zenoah engine, however, he changed to a Robin within a few weeks and, still later, switched to a single cylinder 215cc Cuyuna. Of seven or eight sketches, Burt liked the canard or tandem wing, with the canard mounted right on the forward end of the fuselage, with its leading edge in line with the tip of the nose. Construction on the Solitaire began in December of 1981 and was completed in early 1982. On May 28, 1982 the Solitaire made its first test flight, piloted by Mike Melville. The Solitaire handled well and performed as expected. Later, the engine was removed and the aircraft was test flown as a sailplane. Burt worked with the local FAA to get the new Grizzly signed off as the tow plane and arranged for himself to be checked out as a tow plane pilot. Burt and Mike towed many flights with the Grizzly, some up to 10,000 feet to obtain L/D data and to open the envelope.

kestrel
09-23-2019, 12:37 PM
http://stargazer2006.online.fr/aircraft/pages/grizzly.htm



In June of 1982, Burt Rutan worked with the FAA to get the Grizzly signed off as a tow plane so it could be used to tow the new Solitaire for its test flights. Rutan checked out as the tow plane pilot and sent the FAA into a bit of a whirl since they had never licensed an experimental plane to tow another experimental plane. The Grizzly towed the Solitaire for many flights, the first of which occurred on June 23, 1982.





Burt Rutan reflected on the Grizzly program as follows: "We never kitted the Grizzly. We flew it. It wasn't a good idea because it wasn't a very good bush plane. A bush plane needs to have a high wing, not a low wing, and it can't have the flaps two or three feet off the ground dragging through the bush. For me, it was an experiment to show that I could achieve a high lift coefficient on a tandem-wing airplane and, yeah, it parked so that you had a sleeping bed level in it and whatever. I needed more power and it was pretty early that I understood that I should have gone up and spent more time in Alaska understanding what a bush plane really needs to be. I'd put that in that category."

willyb
09-24-2019, 06:35 AM
I once met a man who had an engine failure in his 182 away from his home airport.Towed it home with another 182.:lol:

Richgj3
09-24-2019, 08:21 PM
In 1957 Ken Flaglor put a 220 continental on a Fleet 16B and licensed it Experimental Amateur Built. He towed gliders with it for hire, after he took his commercial check ride from an FAA inspector in it. So there’s 3 things you can’t do anymore. I owned the Flaglor Hi Tow for several years. It’s now in the hands of Tom Flaglor, Ken’s nephew.

The operating limitations for my Legend Cub said it could tow a light sport glider. Not for hire, of course.

Rich

Charlie Longley
09-24-2019, 08:25 PM
Does anyone on here own a Carbon Cub SS?

Bill Watson
09-24-2019, 08:32 PM
yes

Charlie Longley
09-24-2019, 08:54 PM
yes
OK can you tell me what the limitations say about towing for hire? Also what does it climb like? Are you at pattern altitude at the end of a 4,000’ runway. Any other limitations you can think of?

Thanks!

Bill Watson
09-25-2019, 06:56 PM
Sorry Charlie, POH does not address towing, I think the climb is specular for what it is. On a hard surface runway with light airplane and low density alitude you can exceed pattern altitude rather easy, even with my poor piloting skills.

Richgj3
09-25-2019, 08:25 PM
Not trying to put words in Charlie’s mouth but I think he is asking what the operating limitations document says. Not the POH. If your CC is in the ELSA category, the EAB category or the SLSA category, the operating limitations document should be carried in the aircraft.

Rich

Bill Watson
09-26-2019, 05:55 PM
Thanks Rich, to answer Charlie's question the operating limitations for my airplane, which is experimental light sport, states the aircraft must not be used for banner towing or intentional parachute jumping. I think that would eliminate glider towing. For clarification I would call cub crafters they are great people to talk to.

hotrod180
09-27-2019, 10:35 AM
Not trying to put words in Charlie’s mouth but I think he is asking what the operating limitations document says. Not the POH. If your CC is in the ELSA category, the EAB category or the SLSA category, the operating limitations document should be carried in the aircraft.

The operating limitations are required to be carried aboard all airplanes.
That's what the "O" is A-R-R-O-W stands for.
That isn't necessarily the POH or owners manual--
with most older Cessnas anyway, it's the "Airplane Flight Manual",
which in the case of my 1953 C180 is a one-page document.
Lots of STC's include supplements to the airplane flight manual which are supposed to be carried on board also.

Charlie Longley
09-28-2019, 10:03 AM
I am going to call Cub Crafters next week. There’s a Tost tow hook sitting in my hangar that would fit perfectly on a Carbon Cub.

kowalskim9230
08-07-2020, 11:43 AM
I am going to call Cub Crafters next week. There’s a Tost tow hook sitting in my hangar that would fit perfectly on a Carbon Cub.
Did they reply? Is it possible to install a towing hook to CC?

Charlie Longley
08-07-2020, 10:42 PM
Did they reply? Is it possible to install a towing hook to CC?

I never got around to calling them. Instead I bought a PA18-150 project.

skywagon8a
08-08-2020, 06:54 AM
Did they reply? Is it possible to install a towing hook to CC?
Start here:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2043.13-2B.pdf
Start with paragraph 1 Purpose. Then read Chapter 8.

dgapilot
08-08-2020, 08:02 AM
As stated by others, the op limits for S-LSA don’t prevent you from glider towing, but it would have to be done with a manufacturer approved hitch and per the manufacturers operating manual.

For E-LSA, the FAA operating limits prohibit towing of anything.


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