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View Full Version : Anyone have experince with AQUA 3190s ?????



Alex Clark
04-08-2018, 03:05 PM
I have flown various EDOs, PKs, Wips, Baumann and Aerocets. But I have NO experience with AQUA 3190s. Does anyone have any input... ???

It is like NOBODY has ever owned or used a set..... Weird....

BC12D-4-85
04-08-2018, 04:03 PM
Not me but long time local Fairbanks pilot/mechanic Tom Kishida had a set on a 185 and said he liked them. Tom's gone and plane changed hands and maybe floats. http://floatsalaska.com/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=292 They look similar to the PK 3K's.

Maybe add a second set of chine booster angles like PK does?

Gary

skywagon8a
04-09-2018, 05:52 AM
http://floatsalaska.com/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=292 They look similar to the PK 3K's.

That's a good price for a set of floats. Since the picture makes them look like they are in decent shape, I assume that the price reflects their popularity. The water line indicates that they have plenty of buoyancy. Alex if you can get the serial numbers, call Terry Claggett and ask him whether they are the newer models or What? You might also try to find out if the bottom angle from the keel to the chine is less than the PKs. The PKs are good in rough water but the high bottom angle makes them not as good in smooth water in a small pond.
http://aquafloat.com/contact-us/

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 12:02 PM
There is also another set just 65 miles north of me. I am heading up to look at them now. They have been stored inside a hangar for years. These were made in 1982.
https://anchorage.craigslist.org/avo/d/aqua-3190-floats/6552170265.html

I sent an e-mail to Terry last night but no answer yet.

One thing about PKs and smooth water, they are wide and step turn like you are on railroad tracks. I was able to step-turn my way out of many smaller lakes with the PKs on glassy water.

skywagon8a
04-09-2018, 12:25 PM
Just a guess on my part but I would think that 1982 would be the later style, whatever that is.

I had a pond next to my airport where I launched seaplanes. I installed a new set of PK 3500s on a new 206 and flew it out of this pond, light on fuel and with only one seat. Never again. The pond is 900 feet long. The 206 jumped right up on the step, but would not accelerate to take off speed. I had to go to full flaps to break water. I also flew a no flap 1933 Stinson SR Reliant on 4000s out of that pond. It was a lot better than the 206 on PKs.

If you have no choice but to go straight out in a small pond I would not recommend PKs. EDOs no sweat. It's all in the shape of the bottoms.

The rear fittings on those Aquas look just like the EDO rear fittings, You may be able to use your existing fittings without changing.

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 12:47 PM
There is a BIG difference between the older PK-3500s and the PK-3500C models. The dead rise angle is better on the C models and they added another Hydro Booster to each side. ( four per float )

One things that worries me able the Aquas is that I do not think they use anything to break up the water like the vee shaped boosters. ( i think EDO calls them a super charger)

I just had to buy a new truck. The truck down payment was the money I had been saving for a set of AEROCET 3500Ls.... That would have fixed the problem...

I am on hold again with Aqua. Another big question is: DO THE AQUA'S work with the 3190 pound Kenmore gross weight STC on a late model 180 ?????

skywagon8a
04-09-2018, 01:09 PM
The PKs which went on the 206 would have been the later version.

Look up the STC for the Aquas as well as the STC for your Kenmore mods. If there is no restriction mentioned then they would be eligible on your 180. I would assume that they are eligible since they are approved on both the 180 & 185.

BC12D-4-85
04-09-2018, 01:12 PM
From earlier post: http://floatsalaska.com/index.php?action=listingview&listingID=292 Scan through the images and see the bottoms and hull shape. Aqua's typically use a single long booster from a piece of angle but a second shorter one (~4') could easily be added between it and the keel like PK does.

Gary

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 01:13 PM
Well, they said they would call me back... They needed more info about my engine and prop.
Apparently some of the changes that were made over the years were changes to the bottoms & boosters, adding another bulkhead, making the bottom metal thicker, adding a few more strengthening brackets inside. Plus they changed the corrosion preventative they used sometime along the line.
and eliminating the old air tubes they used to have from the top deck to the keels. It was an attempt to suck air down along the keel and it did not work.

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 01:25 PM
The 3190s are 19 feet, and 1.5 inches long from the back bulkhead to the back end of the bumper. I need to measure my 2960s for a comparison.

MEANWHILE::::
I am making slow but steady progress with resurrecting the old 2960s. One photo shows the cracked and de-lamninating automotive Bondo under the surface. The other photo shows one side after several courses of stripper and scrapping. You can still see some of the Bondo areas. I must have scraped off 5 pounds of Bondo from this one side. And I know the previous owner also removed a bunch of old Bondo when he owned them.

skywagon8a
04-09-2018, 01:41 PM
What is the STC number for Aqua 3190s on 180/185s?

BC12D-4-85
04-09-2018, 01:53 PM
What is the STC number for Aqua 3190s on 180/185s?

SA349CE

Gary

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 01:59 PM
And of course I cannot find the text for that anyplace. The floats themselves claim a max aircraft gross eight of 3320 pounds.

BC12D-4-85
04-09-2018, 02:02 PM
SA328CE
Robert A & Robert T & Hermoine B Claggett
Install Model 180-185 aqua floats.
3A24 -- Cessna Aircraft Company --A185E,A185F,185D,185C,185B,185A,185,185E 


SA349CE
Robert A & Robert T & Hermoine B Claggett
Installation of Aqua Model 180-85 floats.
5A6 -- Cessna Aircraft Company --180,180A,180B,180C,180D,180E,180F,180G,180H,180J,1 80K 




Comments: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=93079

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 02:25 PM
Another thing I was told this morning is that Aqua changed the struts at some point because people were complaining about the older models being nose low compared to some EDO installations. (diggng)
But then again, I have personally witnessed a pilot on Aerocets repeatedly try to kill himself during landings and take-offs because he had no idea what he was doing.

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 04:24 PM
Still waiting on word from Aqua regarding the gross weight and if it will work with my Kenmore STC.

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 04:30 PM
Well this is a start:


Hello Alex,
I've fired off an email to the FAA asking them for their opinion. We have so many of these questions, and their take on most STC mods is that if the modification of the aircraft has not changed the model designation (your J model is still a J) , and there are no adverse flight characteristics, then it is ok (with the prop clearance thing we'd mentioned). I'll let you know what they say. The 3190 is approved to 2950 on your J model as is, and there is no difference between the installation for the 180 and the 185, which is approved to 3320, so the floats will take it just fine. Sorry we can't give you a definitive answer, but the world of STCs is a foggy place.

Best Regards,
Helen and Terry Claggett
Aqua Float Company

skywagon8a
04-09-2018, 05:33 PM
I looked at both of the STCs which Gary posted and neither of them is showing the complete verbiage. Some STCs from the FAA web site do show the entire verbiage but these two do not. Terry is covering his rear but basically since the floats are approved at the higher weight on the 185 there would be no weight limitation on the 180. Without seeing the actual STC with something telling me otherwise, I would have no reservations in signing off the installation on your plane.

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 05:44 PM
They would be legal to install since they are approved. Whether or not the gross weight remains legal at 3190 pounds would be an interesting question.
My Kenmore STC says 3190 pounds on EDO 2960s. WipAire has their STC for Wip-3000s which specially says that it is compatible with Kenmore's STC http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/uploads/9/6/8/3/9683162/sa649nw_ref.pdf
Aerocet did the same thing with their 3500L STC.
I also asked PK and have received no answer.

I guess another route would be to field approve them at the higher gross weight based upon their installation in C-185s and so-on.

Just in case I am still stripping and scrubbing the old 2960s

Alex Clark
04-09-2018, 05:49 PM
If it would not be under-floated, she would really rip out of the water on an old light set of 2870s....

skywagon8a
04-09-2018, 06:42 PM
My Kenmore STC says 3190 pounds on EDO 2960s. WipAire has their STC for Wip-3000s which specially says that it is compatible with Kenmore's STC http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/uploads/9/6/8/3/9683162/sa649nw_ref.pdf
Aerocet did the same thing with their 3500L STC.

I guess another route would be to field approve them at the higher gross weight based upon their installation in C-185s and so-on.
The Kenmore STC is specific as to which model floats are applicable at the higher gross weight. Unless Terry can come up with something in writing from the FAA you would be limited to the lower weight. You could approach the FAA with all three of the STCs, using them as a basis they may be willing to give you a field approval at the 3190 lb weight.

It looks as though you will need to use the 2960s if you want to operate at 3190 lbs without getting further certification of some sort.

Alex Clark
04-10-2018, 04:19 PM
It looks like Aerocet just added a sentence to their STC SA00137SE It looks like they amended it back in 2008

"Those Cessna Model 180G, 180H, 180J and 180K airplanes equipped with the structural modifications defined in Kenmore Air Harbor STC No.
SA649NW, Amendment dated July 14, 1984, may be operated on Aerocet Model 3500 or 3500L floats
at gross weights up to 3190 lbs., subject to the limitations specified in Aerocet SAFM No. A-10022
(180G and 180H), or A-10023 (180J and 180K), each dated January 22, 2001, or later FAA approved
revision."

C-FIJK
04-10-2018, 04:54 PM
I have complete set of installation drawings for 3190 on 180-185 !


And of course I cannot find the text for that anyplace. The floats themselves claim a max aircraft gross eight of 3320 pounds.

King Brown
04-10-2018, 08:35 PM
skywagon8a, my old-time bush pilot friend, Henry Gates operating in northern Quebec, said the Reliant was his favourite aircraft for everything, floats, skis and wheels.

Alex Clark
04-11-2018, 05:04 PM
Well I have confirmation from AEROCET and WIPAIRE that their floats comply with the gross weight increase afforded by SA649SW. They specially mention it in the latest versions of their STCs.

I also have confirmation that PK does not, nor do they plan to pursue it. Aqua does not currently, but they are looking into pursuing it.

peterdillon
04-14-2018, 11:31 PM
Had 2 sets of them on 185's quite a few years back. The only thing that I liked was the flat tops. They really seemed to resist getting on the step with a heavy load and seemed to be prone to lots of leaks. Poorly designed in my option. Very difficult to get rid of. When old sets of 2960's were selling for $15,000 you could buy a mint set of 3190's for around $7000. Never saw anyone running them commercially. I wouldn't trade a set of beat up 2960's for a set of mint 3190's.

Alex Clark
04-15-2018, 03:16 AM
It looks like I will be stuck with the 2960s until I can find / afford some Aerocets. The Straight Wip 3000s cost darn near as much as the Aerocets.

peterdillon
04-15-2018, 06:19 AM
As much as I like the Aerocets now I still really liked the 2960's. They are fast in the air and preform great once you get used to how to fly them. Not a fan of Whips. To short in the gear legs so prone to a lot of prop erosion. Sooner have a set of old 3430's.

G44
04-15-2018, 11:36 AM
It looks like I will be stuck with the 2960s until I can find / afford some Aerocets. The Straight Wip 3000s cost darn near as much as the Aerocets.

"stuck with"? Hmmmm, 2960's are a very good float. They require a technique for best performance which is not difficult to learn or accomplish. Great performing float and fast. The only float I would consider replacing 2960's on your 180 would be Aerocets. In the mean time until you can afford a set of Aerocets I don't think you will be terribly disappointed with the 2960's.

Kurt

mvivion
04-15-2018, 01:11 PM
Another vote for 2960s. Learn to fly them, keep them within legal load limits, and you’ll learn to like them. I only flew a 185 on 3190s once many years ago, and they didn’t impress me at all, but I wasn’t sure it was floats, rigging, or airplane.

Put those old EDOs to work....they’ll teach you a lot, and work hard in the process.

MTV

Alex Clark
04-15-2018, 02:14 PM
Oh I have flown EDO 2960s.
I just do not like the narrow tops for: 1. loading cargo & gear,... 2. the narrow hatch door,... 3. passenger movement without generating a law suit or.... 4. fishing from the plane. They are not my favorite float for step turns or heel beaching either. I much prefer the PK-3000 or 3500C for step turns, loading, fishing and heel beaching. ( Did you know they only made around 115 sets of PK-3000s)

And the sides tend to dent rather easily on the 2960s compared to the thicker metal of the PKs. Something that comes into play when you have students docking 20 times a day.

I do like the 2960s for idle taxi maneuvering and docking. Having the rudders way back in a different time zone really helps at low speeds. Plus the back ends sit low when the plane is loaded and gives you a good keel effect.

Of course now that I have removed 10 pounds of 1960s era Bondo filler from all the dents in my 2960s, I will not have to worry about any extra dents. In fact maybe all the dents will make me go faster.\

Now I need to finish removing all the old layers from the top decks. ( been do that for 3 days) and then I can start on the bottoms.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..

PeterDillion: I do not think I can legally put 3430s on a 180. Even if it has the 185 fuselage and tail.

TurboBeaver
04-15-2018, 08:31 PM
I am sorta amazed this thread has gone on this long and there has not been one peep mentioned about one of the finest
floats ever available for 180/185's. The PK 3000 ??? Alex if you have not flown them or know of them it would certainly
be in your interest to look into them. When the old standard in Alaska was 2960's for private use, and 3430s on most commercial use, it amazed me how few guys knew about the awesome performance of PK 3000 floats???? The perform very similar to 2870/2960 getting onto the step in a hurry, do not require being "flap jacked" out of the water like 2960's
(sorry Pete) and when fully loaded aft, the PK's have a LOT more aft floatations than either of those edos. If you don't believe it try walking two guys down to your water rudders and see what happens with 2960s! Super light the Edos really work nice but round tops suck to work off, the big flat 3430's are good but heavy........ PK 3500 are nice in really rough water; but really are a" completely different animal" than 3000's so don't put them in the same sentence as 3000's for lightly loaded performance. I don't want to run the Aquas down but but performance wise they are coming in low on the list for a reason........ They may have
changed them some over the years but some of the 3190s I flew years ago felt a lot like early PK 3500's , heavy.
If you got the denaro the Aerocets are the way; especially if your going super heavy all the time. But for instructing and general blasting around AK the 3000's are perfect. Reasonable price, terrific performance, nice to work off, superb aft floation, super effective water rudder control in swift river etc.
Just for a reference the Maine Warden Service has been running C180's (2870's)since 1956; and 185's since the late 1960's(with every float ever built) and being a government operation; with very deep pockets; they could run ANY floats they
want to, But after 62 years of banging around in Skywagons all of their aircraft; are on PK3000's. They are extremely popular back here yet you hardly ever see a set of them in Alaska??? I used to routinely operate a RSTOL 185 on Pk 3000 out of the 450' slew that was south off the mouth of Upper Talarick Ck , after dropping off clients in the early 90s. We also went in there with a real hot Beaver with the big Ag blade on it, but it's not a place you ever saw many floatplanes! Food for thought Alex! I see a set for sale in Canada
for 8K if I were looking for set of floats for C180/185 I wouldn't hesitate to make the call.
Good Luck
e

peterdillon
04-15-2018, 10:06 PM
Interesting info on the PK 3000. Never had a set but did hear good comments. Nice to have other good options. Had 3500C's they seemed heavy but were super tough and preformed decent. Pretty slow in the air but probably no worse that 3430's. We used to always run the 2960's with the back covers under water when taxiing admittedly not in real big water. While a lot of people pulled flaps we always would just stay at 2 notches and lift one float to avoid dragging the tails. With the same real heavy load the 3430's would get on the step faster but the 2960's were still airborne sooner and 8 - 10 knots faster. The biggest thing that the new floats offer is the great storage compartments and its hard to beat Aerocet on that one. Even the 2200's will take 4 gerry cans per side which is a real game changer.

Alex Clark
04-15-2018, 10:09 PM
Actually they are mentioned in this thread.
There are ONE set of PK-3000s locally and I love them. I have flown one other 180 on PK3000s as well. Great floats. They only made about 115 sets of PK-3000s according to the folks at PK. That is why almost NONE are up here.
I even like the 3500"C"models.

The problem is that the PK-3000s do not allow me to use my 3,190 pound legal gross weight on my modified 180J.

In the old days it would have been easy to get a field approval based upon the fact that they have a higher gross weight on a C-185, and that basically my late model 180 with the big tail and bigger engine is basically the same airframe as a 185. Not so sure about it now. The best guy for field approvals down at the Juneau FISDO has gone elsewhere. Maybe if I had a few months to wait. which I do not...

I was ordering a set of AEROCETS when the wife came looking over my shoulder.
Wife: " Wow, only $8000 for those floats you always wanted?"
ME; " Well that is just the down-payment deposit "
Wife: "Let me see the total cost"
ME .... CLICK
WIFE: " %$@$%*__((& !!!!"
ME: "Yeah they are kinda spendy but we can afford them."
Wife: " There is no WE, in this deal. You already bought a new plane. Can you make enough this summer to cover that cost?"
Me; " Ahhh. not really....But I was thinking ... "
Wife: " Yeah, well I am not busting my ass to help with your %&*(()_ hobby job !! I wanna buy a house down south with a pool before I get too old !"
Me; "Well its back to scrapping the paint off the old 2960s...".

stewartb
04-15-2018, 10:17 PM
In five years the Aerocets will retain most of their initial acquisition value. 2960s? Good luck finding a buyer. It's all in how you look at it. It could be argued that brand new Aerocets are the better investment.

Alex Clark
04-15-2018, 10:31 PM
Weights installed on a 180 or 185
EDO-2870s = 387 pounds
EDO-2960s = 425 pounds
PK-3000 = 424 pounds
PK-3500C= 442 pounds
CAP 3000s = 422 pounds
Wipaire Straight 3000 = 432 pounds
EDO 3430s = ?????? around 460 pounds.
Aerocet 3500L = 448 pounds
Wipaire straight 3450s = 491 pounds

Alex Clark
04-15-2018, 10:35 PM
In five years the Aerocets will retain most of their initial acquisition value. 2960s? Good luck finding a buyer. It's all in how you look at it. It could be argued that brand new Aerocets are the better investment.

And less likely to have a 75 year old fishing client with a gamey leg bust his or her knee by slipping off the top of the floats.

stewartb
04-15-2018, 10:39 PM
That's up to your insurer.

TurboBeaver
04-18-2018, 07:03 AM
When I got my instrument rating at Kenmore in 1979, I worked on the ramp to earn extra money and get the 50% discount it offered at the time. I stayed with Greg Munro. They had about half dozen C 180s on 2960's that flew charter
everyday that I used to get my rating. The 2960s were weird to me and I didn't like them compared to 2870s. And having just gotten done flying a 185 on PK3000's I really didn't like them......I almost sent Bill Peters , Jerry Rader, and Greg into cardiac arrest raving about PK 3000 floats!! Of course being Edos big outlet on the west coast, droning on about PK 3000s
really was not politically correct especially when your staying with the Munro's! The original prototype of the 3000 was a 2950, and I am not sure what they changed to the 3000 but do know this, a post 64 C 180 on 2960's heavily loaded aft is sorta a "sinking ship" compared to the same exact load on PK 3000s . Regardless of what is on the data tags. Getting broadside in big whitecaps in a later C180 on 2960s heavly loaded aft isn't a good place to be. (Even with insurance and a wet suit) We flew 206's out of Fiji when the standard load on PK 3500Cs was 3 passengers, 3 heavy suitcases, when the air temp was often in the 90 degree range, and flat calm common! Now that will brings a whole new meaning to the term "the slippery spot" lol. Not to pick on Edos as the reverse is true, with a Cub on Edo 2000 vs PK 1800s while the data tags indicate 200lbs of extra floatations for the Edos it will feel more like 500lbs extra rocking around in big swells; I found 1800s
to be almost identical to 1650's as far as what they hold up.
For me if you are running a business and going heavy all the time and handling many hundreds of thousands of dollars every summer where a write off would be advantageous than stepping up for a plate full of $35,000 Aerocets is the only
thing on the menu! But for a smaller operation not needing the write off, or hauling max loads constantly, in big wind conditions. The PK 3000 is the answer, especially when they are down to $7/8 k............ jm2cw

skywagon8a
04-18-2018, 07:22 AM
Turbo,
All of what you've said is correct with one important exception. Alex needs a set of floats in order to utilize his higher gross weight legally. The PK 3000s don't allow this.

Alex Clark
04-18-2018, 12:04 PM
Not to mention that finding a set of PK-3000s in Alaska is darn near impossible. The couple sets available are in Eastern Canada. I would have to have them inspected by a third party or fly there myself. Then break them down for long range shipping and then pay some sort of re-import duty. All the while not knowing if I could ever obtain a field approval.

TurboBeaver
04-18-2018, 12:10 PM
I hear ya both! Just at the PK float factory a few mins ago and told Keith Strange I was stirring the soup a little bit,
And everyone got to laughing and Keith said to give em hel(........

Alex Clark
04-18-2018, 12:27 PM
Keith Strange is a good guy.
He helped me A LOT with my last set of PKs. All they need to do is amend their installation STC to include the higher gross weight for the last couple models of 180s with the Kenmore Tail STC. Since those are really a 185 airframe at that point and since the floats are ALREADY approved at a higher gross weight for 185s, it should be no problem. But whomever was answering my e-mails thought it would be.

I like PKs for rough water, like I get on Tustumeana Lake and Skilak Lake. The flat panel sections of the PKs do not water slap on waves like the fluted bottoms of the 2960s. Plus the rear compartments on the PKs are wider and deeper so the tails do not sink as much.

BC12D-4-85
04-18-2018, 01:44 PM
My high time (mid-upper 20K) neighbor at the float pond has a C-185 IO-520 on PK 3000's. Belly pod w/gear, 3-4 SOB, fuel, sunk to the rear spreader some days while taxiing. He likes to work the elevators to get on step but takes off in a reasonable distance unless it's real calm and warm. Impressive for a PK float. He added a 3-blade Mac a few years back which he said really helps.

Gary

Alex Clark
04-18-2018, 05:45 PM
Tell you what, as hard as it is to find dock space here every summer, I am about ready to sacrifice a seat space and go amphib.
I wonder if EDO 3500s are too heavy ?? There is a nice set in Sitka.

skywagon8a
04-18-2018, 05:57 PM
Tell you what, as hard as it is to find dock space here every summer, I am about ready to sacrifice a seat space and go amphib.
I wonder if EDO 3500s are too heavy ?? There is a nice set in Sitka.
EDO 3500s have never been approved on a Cessna 180. That's beside being a sacrifice of about 300 pounds.

Alex Clark
04-18-2018, 06:42 PM
So they are heavy.
The old 2790s are approved, I have no idea how much they weigh but I have seen people trying to leave a lake with them...Then there are the super expensive Aerocet 3400s ( 651 pounds installed , so I would loose 200 pounds ) and Wip 3000 Amphib.

Oh well, just a random thought. Dock space is a premium around here and the water is corrosive.

skywagon8a
04-18-2018, 07:11 PM
Yes the 2790s are approved at a reduced gross weight due to floatation requirements. 3100 lbs limit. You would also have to consider the 180 to be a two place airplane. I just don't see you being satisfied based on your description of what you need. Yes they are good floats but in my opinion you would be much happier with your 2960s.

I can get you the weights if you like in the morning.

Alex Clark
04-18-2018, 11:52 PM
Yeah I know... I sent you one of those PM things

skywagon8a
04-19-2018, 06:49 AM
...Then there are the super expensive Aerocet 3400s ( 651 pounds installed , so I would loose 200 pounds )
Is this 651 lbs after you deduct the weight of the land gear or before? That number is considerably less than the EDO 3500s 765 lbs from which you deduct the land gear.

peterdillon
04-19-2018, 07:09 AM
A lot of maintenance on those older amphibs so need to take that into consideration. Always repacking wheels, brakes, gear issues, pump and electrical switches etc on those old 2790s. We used to run some pretty heavy loads with them on 185s but yikes a bit scary in big water. They would be useless on a standard 180. With amphibs running empty it feels like your half loaded. Never liked that part even with the Aerocets so unless you really need them I would agree with the previous post that you may not be happy. We had a 185 with a IO550 on Aerocet 3400's and they were absolutely trouble free. As you figured earlier 3430's not approved for 180's. Another float that would be an option although hard to find is the CAP 3000 D model. They were built in Canada but approved in the US on a 180. They are round top but the fastest float in that group for sure. I have never personally flown a set but had friends that had them. Got off the water as well as the 2960's with a big load. Everybody that I knew that had them liked them. Can't remember the floatation on them of hand but they were used on 185s so they will be as high as 2960s I am sure.

Alex Clark
04-19-2018, 11:01 AM
I have flown a 185 on CAP 3000s a few times. I like the Capt Nemo look of the back ends. They did OK.

PETE: 650lbs is the totally assembly weight of the Aerocet 3400s , as compared to 450lbs for the 3500Ls straight floats. So you loose an extra 200 pounds of useful load by going amphib with Aerocets. Oddly enough the Wip 3000 amphibs are 20 or 30 pounds lighter.

mvivion
04-19-2018, 11:49 AM
Another vote for CAP 3000 floats. They’re tough and perform, flown right. I’ve flown both 180 and 185 on them and liked both. Flat top floats are nice, if you don’t mind paying for them.....

And everything Peter Dillon said about those old EDO amphibs is right on. EDO 3500s are HUGE floats, derived from EDO 4000 straights, not approved on the 180 and way too big in any case.

MTV

Alex Clark
04-19-2018, 12:08 PM
Pete: Here is what passes as the Public Mooring area here on Beluga Lake. And this guy picked a good spot with smaller rocks. He was nailed by a strong wind on his tail in the middle of the night. Those lines are tied to the main road guard rail.

BC12D-4-85
04-19-2018, 02:39 PM
I'd build a floating ramp before tying up like that to a steep bank. There was one next to my old parking space for years that a C-185 used. The bare wood got slippery from algae but carpeting fixed that. But maybe Homer would require it to be licensed as a vessel and have Coast Guard registration. Some local folks have given up on shore parking and just use a pull out trailer when done for the day.

Gary

TurboBeaver
04-20-2018, 03:22 AM
Alex I gotta agree with you about 2790 floats and watching them "try" to take off ! That is a great choice of words. Probably the absolute poorest choice you could ever make! Don't forget all the older amphibian floats used the most bouyant compartment for the main gear! And that comes at a huge price, a C180 on them loaded in a stiff breeze isnt
really a floatplane it's a submarine. P Dillion has given you great advise........ I am going to say you will get more pratice
with aborted takeoffs then you have in your whole career! And make darn sure your insurance is up to snuff, cause a common view of 2790's on a C180 is bottoms up! They would be the worst idea you could ever come up with......
Good luck
e

mvivion
04-20-2018, 09:28 AM
Alex,

Just call up the Red River Bank in Halstad, MN and take out a loan on a brand new set of Aerocets......Simple.

MTV

cubdriver2
04-20-2018, 12:21 PM
Alex and others might need some of these



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Alex Clark
04-20-2018, 01:32 PM
I have actually made over-stuffed bumpers. It does not help anything for a steep and rocky shoreline. If I cannot obtain dock space this year I will have to make a floating fender-dock of some sort, OR pull my plane out of the water every night on a trailer.

mvivion
04-20-2018, 01:43 PM
As Gary suggested, build a wood ramp. Weight the outboard end so that it'll sink a bit to protect your floats when you ramp them. Ramp it, then get out and muscle it around to the heels are toward the shore, tie it down. Put in some duck bill earth anchors in the bottom beside the ramp, or just tie the plane to the ramp. In the morning, preflight, load up, fire up, warm up, and power off the ramp.

Only real down side is, as Gary noted, they get slicker than snot with algae. Some wing walk or similar along the sides helps with that.

We kept our floatplanes on a floating ramp at our remote camp on Kodiak all the time, worked great, even in some big blows.

MTV

BC12D-4-85
04-20-2018, 02:10 PM
Or how about these? Saw them first at Eyak Lake in Cordova when I was flying during the oil spill. No doubt common knowledge along the coast but I thought how inventive for the builders. One had hydraulics in the cab. Just drove under the front of the plane and lifted it via the rising frame under the spreader bars.

skywagon8a
04-20-2018, 02:39 PM
I've seen a similar launching vehicle at Vancouver BC. Very efficient and quick.

BC12D-4-85
04-23-2018, 11:20 PM
More Aquas. Think the size is wrong but do know the floats and owner. https://fairbanks.craigslist.org/avo/d/aqua-3430-floats-for-sale/6569681409.html

Gary

Alex Clark
04-24-2018, 03:13 AM
The Aqua 3430s are big girls. I just looked at a new install on a c206

mvivion
04-24-2018, 08:59 AM
Or how about these? Saw them first at Eyak Lake in Cordova when I was flying during the oil spill. No doubt common knowledge along the coast but I thought how inventive for the builders. One had hydraulics in the cab. Just drove under the front of the plane and lifted it via the rising frame under the spreader bars.

Those are a nice idea, but they’d require a two person team to launch, or some fancy rigging.

MTV

BC12D-4-85
04-24-2018, 11:45 AM
The Aqua 3430s are big girls. I just looked at a new install on a c206

I believe they are 3190's but will have a look today to confirm. They were on a 185 previously.

Gary

BC12D-4-85
04-24-2018, 11:51 AM
"Those are a nice idea, but they’d require a two person team to launch, or some fancy rigging.

MTV"

They drove the trailer into the lake then jumped out moved the beached and tethered plane by hand onto the trailer. Similar to what we do with an ordinary hydraulic trailer that lifts the spreader bars. Side guide boards and float bumper stops on the trailer would make that pre-positioning easier. Then pump up the lifting arms and scoot away to parking.

Of course the setup could be built with a standard low deck trailer the float keels sit on instead of the fancy hydraulics if the plane doesn't need to be removed later for storage.

Gary

Alex Clark
04-24-2018, 01:05 PM
I have never seen a set of used Aerocets 3400s amphibs listed for sale. EVER.....In fact I have never seen a used set of 3500Ls for sale either. Although I know a local guy who did find some 3500Ls for the deal of the century. ( less than 20K, thus no doubt he struck a deal with Satan) So has anyone ever seen a set of A-3400s for sale or are they like Unicorn testicles???

Here is another shot of what they call public or transient tie-downs on Beluga Lake ( 5BL). The rocks are rather nasty when the wind pounds your floats. And the steep bank up to the road tends to make it hard to tail ( heel) beach because there is no place for your aircraft's tail.

BC12D-4-85
04-24-2018, 06:17 PM
I believe they are 3190's but will have a look today to confirm. They were on a 185 previously.

Gary

These are indeed Aqua/Capre 3190's S/N 1108-09 Mfg. 5/97. Hatches in each float. Didn't appear abused.

Owner has 2960's now. Just in case someone wants what will likely be a deal when the snow finally melts around the rest of them

Gary

Alex Clark
04-24-2018, 08:03 PM
I called Seaplanes North today in an effort to buy some Aerocets. I was told that there are none and they are back-ordered into next year. Bummer...

skywagon8a
04-25-2018, 05:40 AM
That's a clue Alex, hope you placed an order. Use the 2960s this year and look forward to your new floats next year. You most certainly will have no trouble selling the Aerocets if for some reason you can't take delivery.

C-FIJK
04-26-2018, 09:47 PM
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Alex Clark
04-27-2018, 01:21 AM
Mike V, do you know the seller ???

TurboBeaver
04-27-2018, 03:42 AM
Alex,
If your thinking of diving into the world of amphibious floats the PK 3000 is made as the model 3050 with the main gear
retracting into the aft forward section leaving the STEP compartment ( one that really matters) the same as a straight float
These perform quite differently than ANY conventional amphibious float that uses the step compartment to hold the main gear. The Whips are a copy of Alton Bouchards original design of using the aft section to mount the mains. We have them here on a 185 that you could try out before you spend money? Also Keith is just finishing a tricked out 185 on brand new
3050's that I am sure you could demo? I would sure speak to him about all this, as they will certainly bend over backwards
to sell you a set of amphibious floats! So there is two options right there! I am running back and forth to Lincoln all the time annualing two planes, and have plenty of room here if you want to come fly them ??? Welcome to kick around with us
if that would help ya????

mvivion
04-27-2018, 06:59 AM
Mike V, do you know the seller ???

Nope, but I'm in MN right now, I'll ask around.

MTV

skywagon8a
04-27-2018, 07:04 AM
Joe Birkemeyer (https://www.barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=182491&id=1343086&title=Wipline+3000A+Amphib%27s&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3D%26page%3D9) is one of the persons in charge when the Bauman floats were being produced.

Alex Clark
04-27-2018, 01:15 PM
The problem with PK is their lack of compliance with the gross weight increase etc. The e guys at Kenmore said that Aerocets were the only way to go. A new set of Aerocets 3400 amphibia is now 95,000 bucks.....wow....

Alex Clark
04-27-2018, 05:44 PM
I sent a message last night to Wip asking if the Amphib versions met the same weight as the straight 3000s for the Kenmore gorss weight increase. And No answer yet.

Bill Rusk
04-28-2018, 08:22 AM
Joe Birkemeyer is a good man. I would not hesitate to do business with him. He was the manager of Bauman floats for several years.

Bill

peterdillon
04-28-2018, 06:46 PM
Joe works with Park Rapids Aviation boys now. Those guys know float planes. Bought quite a few sets of Aerocets from them. Joe is as straight a guy as you will ever meet.

ak49flyer
06-04-2018, 11:04 AM
Anyone know anything about CAP 3500’s on a 180/185? I’ve heard lots of good about CAP 3000’s performance, but not so much about 3500’s- anyone here flown them?

Alex Clark
06-04-2018, 12:00 PM
I have never seen cap 3500s. The 3000s are good floats.