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View Full Version : PA-11 shut off valve.



nesincg
03-01-2018, 12:00 AM
Its time to revisit this. The last thread is too old. Of course I should have replaced the valve when I rebuilt 71H. But with what? I don't want a multi tank system. I just want a shut off valve.

Luscombe doesn't seem to be making a valve anymore.
Does the Dakota Cub STC cover a single tank? If so, how does it install in the same location?
Is there any valve that I could use parts substitution for?
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/groco--fv-series-fuel-valves--P015972722

There was some leakage on the actual valve but the majority leaked from the connections. The pipe fitting ends bottomed out before they made a tight seal. I thought shortening the male end would cause it to seal better. It does not. Can this be fixed, for use in my tractor, or course? Put back the brass fittings and braze with silver? That works for freon in AC units.

35449
It is lucky I have dark red outside those stains.

RaisedByWolves
03-01-2018, 12:26 AM
http://www.burlac.com/fuel_valves.html

Steve Pierce
03-01-2018, 07:48 AM
http://www.burlac.com/fuel_valves.html

Looks like the same valve Luscombe was using.

Dan Gervae
03-01-2018, 01:16 PM
https://www.wagaero.com/fuel-systems/fuel-drain-valves/shutoff-valves/brass-ball-shutoff-valves-1.html

cubdriver2
03-01-2018, 02:53 PM
Pipe thread is tapered, try removing some material from the narrow end so it screws in farther? This is what the guys who assemble the piping at a gas station use on threads

Glenn

https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/539018a6-23a1-469f-8e7a-55dbaa327d2e/svn/rectorseal-pipe-putty-sealants-31630-64_1000.jpg

nesincg
03-01-2018, 09:20 PM
Pipe thread is tapered, try removing some material from the narrow end so it screws in farther? This is what the guys who assemble the piping at a gas station use on threads

GlennI tried removing some and it didn't seat much better.

nesincg
03-01-2018, 09:21 PM
Luscombe did email me back today and said they had something. Waiting to hear back from them.

tempdoug
03-01-2018, 09:47 PM
scrap all the tie wraps while your in there, as far as im aware there is no approved on-off valve anymore specifc for a pa11 or a 90hp single tank supercub. you have to have a valve so i really dont thing it matters what you use, its not piper approved, so you just have to move on. correct me if im wrong. i have the luscombe in mine works great, nice handle. $70 when i bought mine, let us know what they are now.

nesincg
03-01-2018, 10:09 PM
https://www.wagaero.com/fuel-systems/fuel-drain-valves/shutoff-valves/brass-ball-shutoff-valves-1.html
Thanks Dan. This one you posted is 1/4 but this 3/8 might work if I make a mount. Like the price too.
https://www.wagaero.com/fuel-systems/fuel-drain-valves/shutoff-valves/brass-ball-shutoff-valves.html

Dan Gervae
03-01-2018, 10:12 PM
Thanks Dan. This one you posted is 1/4 but this 3/8 might work if I make a mount. Like the price too.
https://www.wagaero.com/fuel-systems/fuel-drain-valves/shutoff-valves/brass-ball-shutoff-valves.html

I used these on my J3 wing tank install, they are nice


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nesincg
03-11-2018, 05:56 PM
Never did hear back from Luscombe. Will work with wag aero valve.

N86250
03-12-2018, 04:21 AM
Talk it over with your mechanic. He may see the W-A valve as an unapproved part.
• Code 8 To our knowledge, these items do not carry an FAA/PMA, TSO, and/or STC, and no application is in process. These products are offered for sale only for experimental category aircraft.

skywagon8a
03-12-2018, 07:21 AM
Talk it over with your mechanic. He may see the W-A valve as an unapproved part.
• Code 8 To our knowledge, these items do not carry an FAA/PMA, TSO, and/or STC, and no application is in process. These products are offered for sale only for experimental category aircraft.
Bear in mind that when these planes were built FAA/PMA, TSO, and STC did not exist. Piper used parts which were readily available at the hardware store. I suggest that you go to your local and look on their shelves. You may be surprised. Also if you look on the Piper drawings you may even find the name of the company which made the valves which may still (or it's successor company) be stocking those shelves.

tempdoug
03-12-2018, 07:45 AM
The company that made the originals was IMPERIAL, they no longer exist. I dont think any can be found anymore. Guys have had the imperials on ebay in the past for 2-300 bucks. And i dont think theres an approved on-off fuel valve for a 11 or 90hp super cub that im aware of, so im thinking the only thing thats allowed is to put a rubber hose where the fuel valve was if your valve went bad and use a vice grips and crimp it shut when fuel is not needed. I wish someone would ask the FAA if a vice-grips would be ok beings you dont have to leave it attached. seriously. I will have to see but i really doubt any one is going to get a single valve approved. Very few certified planes with one tank. Even the cessna 150 valves price wise have went through the roof. Univair worked for years to get one approved for the j3 awhile back. My plane, i put a luscombe in, works great, but its a luscombe valve, approved for a luscombe but not for piper, does that matter?? doug

tempdoug
03-12-2018, 08:02 AM
heres one for a cessna 150.https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cessna-150-FUEL-SHUT-OFF-VALVE-ASSEMBLY-PN-0411803-5-HANDLE-3/152937286539?epid=3011758395&hash=item239bc5cb8b:g:KgQAAOSwbgpaoZzv&vxp=mtr

tempdoug
03-12-2018, 08:16 AM
You guys that deal with the FAA types all the time it would be interesting if you would ask one of them, when no fuel valve is approved for a airplane and yours goes bad, whats the route to take, and let us know.

JP
03-12-2018, 12:00 PM
Time to apply the Robin Olds rule...

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cruiser
03-12-2018, 02:50 PM
McMaster Carr has a compact 3/8 threaded fuel valve if you are down to your last resort. Item 7910K83 has a funky handle that looks airplane or a ball valve, same page. I have not seen much from W.A. that I felt was of aircraft quality.

nesincg
05-13-2018, 12:14 AM
Well the wag-aero valve didn't work. It says it is a 3/8 valve, but it is a crapload bigger than the other valve. I bet it weighs 3 times as much. In the meantime, I was replacing the valve on my J-3 and noticed the sizes sure looked similar. Univair took this valve and modified it to work on the J-3. They then rubbed the name off of it. Anyone know what brand of valve this is?

3701937020

nesincg
05-13-2018, 12:30 AM
Well, nevermind. A simple search from those numbers: http://www.sharpevalves.com/product-series50M76.html

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RRTW0S (http://www.sharpevalves.com/product-series50M76.html)

skywagon8a
05-13-2018, 05:12 AM
Looks like a standard hardware store ball valve.

tempdoug
05-13-2018, 09:30 AM
http://www.j3-cub.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49214&stc=1&d=1522976457

supercub
05-13-2018, 10:49 AM
Why can't you use a super cub fuel valve, plug off the Right inlet, and placard the position "off"

supercub
05-13-2018, 10:51 AM
What is this valve from?

http://www.j3-cub.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49214&stc=1&d=1522976457

flybynite
05-13-2018, 11:11 AM
Chris,

I had seen something a while ago for the Aviat line of aircraft replacing the Imperial valve with an Apollo. Here is a link to their service bulletin: https://aviataircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/hsb18.pdf

I had heard of it referred to as Service Bulletin 11.

The 76-101 is only a 1/4" valve though. A 76-102 is 3/8"

https://www.amazon.com/APOLLO-76-102-01A-BALL-VALVE-NEW/dp/B016AGUA6Q

JP
05-14-2018, 09:29 AM
Does anyone out there have a CAD scan capability such that we can take a "real" PA-11/J-3 valve and render it to tech drawings?

I, for one, will then proceed from there to a nifty machine shop operation nearby and have them assist me in making an owner manufactured part.

Kind of like a ghost gun.

JP

nesincg
09-02-2018, 07:08 PM
Okay. So it has been all too long but I finally got back on this valve project. The amazon valve I purchased, though exactly the same as the J-3 from Univair, had no way of mounting the valve using the two holes as shown in post 1. My plan was to purchase another valve, similar to this one, that I could make a bracket and mount to the valve shown at the yellow arrow. The problem was going to be having a handle that was similar to original. It would need a tapped hole at the top at green arrow. This all would have been a lot of fabrication I was ready to do.
38650
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075WPY8LR

So I took this project to a friend that does fabrication and he did a lot of research on the original valve. He decided I needed to repair it instead (though I'm still keeping above idea as backup). What we found was that the original valve had very odd threads. This was later confirmed by an Aeronca Champ write-up we found on the internet. This is actually a compression fitting but with 9/16 x 20 threads instead of the standard 9/16 x 18 that are on AN6 hardware.
38651
Full article here: http://johnpropst.yolasite.com/resources/fuel%20shutoff%20valves%20overhaul%20rev7.pdf

So the fix is to create your own AN adapters. You can luck into some blank ones that I got last year from Spruce or create your own similar to above post. We were also able to tap a regular AN6D with the 9/16-20 tap and still have plenty of thread left that would still hold firmly.
3865238653
Blank, ready for thread ............. and ............. modified AN6

We have tested this airtight for 24 hours and calling it good to go. Will report back after lots of hours to make sure it held tight.
38654