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Bart23Sept
01-13-2018, 02:37 PM
Hi folks,

New to the site in search of Stewart Systems info, I own a '68 Champion 7ECA.

Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft? There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better! :)

Thanks,
Bart

a.crane
01-13-2018, 06:21 PM
I have a 1976 7GCBC, know a few other members who fly scouts. Are you doing a milman spar/leading edge conversion on your eca? Mine still has wood spars, post up some pics of that wing build

Bart23Sept
01-13-2018, 06:25 PM
Hi A.

Yes, doing the Milman conversion, spars and leading edges. Wood spars on mine were fine but I hit a hawk and rather than spend money on the repair we decided to do the spar conversion and resolve the damage in the process. It's a really nice package and it's going fine so far. I'll post pics next time I log in from the laptop that has the photos on it.

Bart

Scouter
01-13-2018, 06:58 PM
Hi folks,

New to the site in search of Stewart Systems info, I own a '68 Champion 7ECA.

Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft? There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better! :)

Thanks,
Bart

if you hang around here very long you will drink the koolaid and not look back
well, you will think about flying a plane with heat��
Former Scout person
jim
3465434657

34658

34656

bob turner
01-13-2018, 09:34 PM
I have a 1977 Super Decathlon with IFR panel, a kill switch to protect the instruments when upside down, and aluminum gear legs. Somebody near Petaluma covered it in 1992 with Ceconite/dope. I have yet to see a better fabric job - the guy is better than me!

This airplane is a perfect second aircraft for me. I fly the Cub every day, and the Dec once a week. I am in love!

I lament the near demise of the Aeronca forum. I need a source for the Dec that is as good as this forum is for Cubs and 180s. The Club forum is restricted, and I did not get much for my club dues.

bob turner
01-13-2018, 09:40 PM
Let me find a photo:

bob turner
01-13-2018, 09:41 PM
Instruments:

Bart23Sept
01-13-2018, 10:25 PM
Hi Bob,
You were a lot of help (at the J3 forums) as I was looking for a Cub before buying the Citabria back in 2016. That's a very nice Super D and I agree it's too bad the club forums aren't more active.
Bart

Steve Pierce
01-14-2018, 09:55 AM
There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better! :)


I agree, seems like questions asked on Facebook get responces from all sorts. I run a Short Wing Piper website and we have a Facebook page. When questions get asked on FB I try and link a thread on the website in responce. The website willbe here and searchable for years to come and it seems to me that the people who participate on the websites have a more vested interest in the airplanes and better knowledge.

Welcome aboard. I use to maintain several Champs and Citabrias. My brother has a nice 7FC converted to 7EC Champ project. As far as information on Stewarts system I would search it here, lots of information. Try entering "Stewarts" in the Google search box on the home page. Works better than the search box in the right hand corner.

Bart23Sept
01-14-2018, 09:57 AM
Thanks for the search tip Steve. As a former forums owner/host I usually bypass the search feature after a few tries since they're usually on the weak side but I'll try what you said.

Bart

Steve Pierce
01-14-2018, 10:00 AM
You can also enter your word string followed by "site:supercub.org" in Google and get the same results as the search box on the home page.

aktango58
01-14-2018, 12:49 PM
Hi folks,


Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft? :)

Thanks,
Bart

Why would anyone on a cub forum want a plane that flies faster, has a larger cabin, costs less, and the early one will out climb the J-3?;-)

There are a few great Champ owners on here, as well as Scouts and Bob with his Decath.

Funny how most everywhere the average guy on here goes there is a Scout or Champ with them... or should I say 'ahead'.:lol::-P

Bart23Sept
01-14-2018, 12:51 PM
I spent six months shopping for a Cub, had my heart set on a Cub for all of the usual reasons......and bought a 7ECA. But let's not go there, we're outnumbered here! lol

Cub junkie
01-14-2018, 12:57 PM
7 eca is a much better airplane than a cub

8GCBC
01-14-2018, 01:36 PM
Needed more fuel, W&B, cruise speed, and MT prop for Canada and PNW. But, I like cubs for training and local flights. I love the people at ACA too!

Beaver Marsh:
34682

Oregon Lake:
34683

Glacier Bay, SE AK
34684

Abyss Lake, SE AK:
34685

Canada:
34686

bob turner
01-14-2018, 10:22 PM
The people at ACA are certainly nice and helpful. Prices are beyond my capability. A $30 landing gear bolt was $128 from them five years ago. They wanted a hundred bucks for a copy of a drawing!

I can understand - they have families to support. I just have to watch the budget.

G44
01-14-2018, 10:28 PM
Needed more fuel, W&B, cruise speed, and MT prop for Canada and PNW. But, I like cubs for training and local flights. I love the people at ACA too!

Beaver Marsh:
34682

Oregon Lake:
34683

Glacier Bay, SE AK
34684

Abyss Lake, SE AK:
34685

Canada:
34686


What is your legal useful load on amphibs?

8GCBC
01-14-2018, 10:46 PM
What is your legal useful load on amphibs?

Please click here, for general W&B data:

https://www.wipaire.com/aircraft_page/american-champion-scout-8gcbc/#floats

G44
01-14-2018, 11:11 PM
I have seen all the published numbers from the manufactures which are usually very optimistic. I want to real world numbers, that is why I asked.

bob turner
01-15-2018, 02:14 AM
Real world numbers on amphibs? One pilot, enough ballast to get within envelope, 30 minutes of gas. Real operations ? Load it up and go?

My Decathlon on wheels carries me at 190, the Greek at 120, and enough gas to actually go somewhere, and it is at gross!

G44
01-15-2018, 01:08 PM
I guess its a big secret. Oh well...

Bart23Sept
01-15-2018, 01:09 PM
I guess its a big secret. Oh well...

Hi G44, what do you fly?

G44
01-15-2018, 01:11 PM
Husky.
Dad had a Scout he wanted to put amphibs on.
Uncle has a Scout

Bart23Sept
01-15-2018, 01:19 PM
gotcha. how much of a difference would you expect between 8GCBC's numbers and what is published by Wipaire?

G44
01-15-2018, 01:23 PM
gotcha. how much of a difference would you expect between 8GCBC's numbers and what is published by Wipaire?

Actually I do not know, that is why I asked. I have had experience and have seen different numbers from "published" over the years on various mods including amphibs. When considering installing anything it is nice to know what the actual numbers others have experienced, it helps in the decision making process as to weather or not this is a mod I would like to do myself.

Bart23Sept
01-15-2018, 01:28 PM
maybe shoot him a PM? or call Wipaire to see how close the real numbers come to what is published? How's the Husky with amphibs? Numbers work out OK?

mam90
01-15-2018, 01:32 PM
Flew a buddy’s full IFR Husky on Amphibs a couple of years ago. When we got back, I asked him what the useful was. He grinned and said 320 pounds....... glad I asked after we got back....

G44
01-15-2018, 01:46 PM
maybe shoot him a PM? or call Wipaire to see how close the real numbers come to what is published? How's the Husky with amphibs? Numbers work out OK?

According to Wip's published numbers, about 600 pounds on my IFR equipped A1-C. Will know more when my buddy's A-1C that is going on amphibs this spring is weighed (not calculated but actually weighed).

Sorry to the original poster for the thread drift.

Steve Pierce
01-15-2018, 03:04 PM
Todd Peterson who does the Katmai conversions on the C180 told me you never weigh a Cessna, always calculate it. If you weigh it you will lose useful load. I believe Piper is the same.

Bart23Sept
01-15-2018, 03:36 PM
hmmm, i was going to weigh my 7ECA when the wings and annual are done. now you've got me a'scared.

mam90
01-15-2018, 04:01 PM
Ya, my IA has a set of scales and does a fair number of weigh jobs in New England. He can’t think of a time when a customer was happy with the results.....

Bart23Sept
01-15-2018, 04:34 PM
Ya, my IA has a set of scales and does a fair number of weigh jobs in New England. He can’t think of a time when a customer has happy with the results.....

can a plane be unweighed once it's been put on scales by an A&P?

mam90
01-15-2018, 06:23 PM
I would imagine if it’s being weighed as the result of alteration or repair, probably not. If you have a current weight and balance and just weigh it out of curiousity, then I suppose there could be some discussion... But I’m not an AMT or IA.....

JimParker256
01-15-2018, 11:59 PM
hmmm, i was going to weigh my 7ECA when the wings and annual are done. now you've got me a'scared.
I weighed my 1965 7ECA when I bought it. Seller and W&B history said it was 1020 lbs. We replaced the “unapproved - no 337” tractor store battery with a Concorde (about 5 lbs lighter - surprise!), and the heavy pull-starter (O-200) with a Sky-Tech lightweight (about 7 lbs lighter, and weighed it. Came in at 1027 lbs. I was quite happy that it was that close to “as advertised”...

i don’t believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or “calculated” W&B data. If the plane is actually heavier that the calculated data shows, I want to know that. I don’t understand pilot / Owners who refuse to weigh their planes “because it will weigh more”... Guess what’s? It already weighs more, and if you’re pushing the W&B envelope at the “assumed” lighter weight, you may be flying over gross, and possibly outside the CG envelope – but you won’t know one way or the other. Wouldn’t you rather know for sure, before you break something (maybe even yourself or a loved one)?

JimParker256
01-16-2018, 12:08 AM
Hit “Post” too soon... As to the OP’s original question, the “Citabria-Decathlon-Scout ~Pilots - Owners - Enthusiasts” group on Facebook has far more activity then the Bellanca club site, and the ACA factory folks hang out on FB and answer tons of questions.. Dale Gauger in particular is the “go-to” guy for answers.

bob turner
01-16-2018, 12:38 AM
I am with Steve Pierce, and ready to take heat for it. Weighing a 7ECA is apprently not risky, but weighing a Cub will yield a single place airplane. Jim is partially correct; you do want to know what you really weigh. But if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, put a note on a 337 and send it to OKC. That can make your perfectly good Cub virtually unsellable.

We have a local Super Cub with a 400 lb useful load. It is just another Cub, not one with big tires or anything. It doesn't even have heavy duty gear or big tires. But all its 337s say "will be weighed on assembly". No mechanic with any sense will falsify a weigh-in, and you have to have a weight and balance.

Another local Cub - a J-3 - took a trip to the scales. Only mod is C-90-8 and metal prop. 850 lbs! That leaves 370 lbs useful load. That is the owner, me, and zero fuel, and still way over gross. Climbs like a rocket with the 90 and a metal prop.

BC12D-4-85
01-16-2018, 01:01 AM
Local had a PA-12 that had been recovered, factory seating and baggage, radio, electrical, and normal panel. Stock except for an O-320, 74x?? prop, 8.00x6 and Clevelands. "Weighed" whatever it was from the factory or about mid 900's plus very slight adds for the engine/prop/wheels and had the papers to prove it. Probably still does for the new owner. Everybody happy.

My 7ECA was over 1100 and 7GCBC started at about 1170 then ate a Big Mac.

Gary

Bart23Sept
01-16-2018, 09:33 PM
.............but weighing a Cub will yield a single place airplane.......... .

i never heard that about Cubs. Clipped Wing Cubs yes, but not long wing Cubs.

bob turner
01-17-2018, 01:52 PM
One would think a clipped wing would weigh less.

The Super Cubs seem to have come from the factory at 1077 lbs. (at least the 150 Cubs). The J-3s were apparently weighed, and range from about 690 to 725 lbs. If you put a J-3 on the scales today you will be lucky to be under 800 lbs. I have seen Super Cubs on wheels approaching 1300 lbs from scales.

An owner who wishes to legally carry two adults and full fuel would do well to not send any hint of an event on scales to the records branch. All you need is a separate sheet signed by an A&P. I am not at all sure the signature is required. Do not mention a weighing event on a 337. That is an opinion, but I believe it to be perfectly legal. If you want, you can always state "Weight and Balance and Equipment List updated." I do that in the logbook and on the 337.

bob turner
01-17-2018, 02:01 PM
I should add - I was very careful with my Super Decathlon. I weigh 190, the Greek weighs maybe 115, and legally I think with the two of us and zero baggage we can carry 37 gallons - very close to full. Computed, not weighed.

We did have a 7ECA here for a while that was weighed after a recover with lots of automotive urethane. It was within five lbs of original factory weight. Be interesting to know if Champion had more honest scales than Piper.

scout88305
01-19-2018, 11:06 PM
Hi folks,

New to the site in search of Stewart Systems info, I own a '68 Champion 7ECA.

Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft? There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better! :)

Thanks,
Bart

Owned 2 Champs a Scout then a SC and went back to a Scout. It fits my needs better and for me the advantages outweigh cons. Champ clan as I call it keep pretty quiet here to avoid brutal beatings at gatherings. Welcome to SC.org. Much knowledge and motivation here in a struggling industry.

34787

cubdriver2
01-20-2018, 12:15 AM
Owned 2 Champs a Scout then a SC and went back to a Scout. It fits my needs better and for me the advantages outweigh cons. Champ clan as I call it keep pretty quiet here to avoid brutal beatings at gatherings. Welcome to SC.org. Much knowledge and motivation here in a struggling industry.

34787

We still love you Eric ;-) ok you have a cool dad and lovable dog.

Glenn

aftCG
01-20-2018, 08:02 PM
My local EAA chapter has equipment they lend out, including scales and a really cool bore scope. I don't see why one couldn't weigh a plane without adult supervision and not have it be part of the permanent record. You don't even have to level it if all you want to know is the weight.

My early Citabria has a useful load of 496 lbs. I'm going to be a weight freak when it needs to have the covering stripped off. Even 20 lbs is worth going after (over 3 gallons of gas giving me another 30 minutes of legal air time. I'll take it).

Off topic, I just found this sub forum and wanted to learn more about Supercubs anyway so I'm stoked to be here. I much prefer forum content over facebook feeds. The news feed nature of it means you get recent posts whether you're interested or not, and less ability to browse content that might interest you today.

Beaverpilot
01-22-2018, 05:44 PM
Welcome! My other plant is a 61 ECA I use the A portion quite a bit ;). When I grow up I may go for a scout. Until then I’m building a SC.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

Bart23Sept
04-03-2018, 08:56 AM
hey guys, i went public today with a new website..... ChampCitabriaDecathlonForums.com

:)

cubdriver2
04-03-2018, 09:58 AM
hey guys, i went public today with a new website..... ChampCitabriaDecathlonForums.com

:)


http://champcitabriadecathlonforums.com (http://champcitabriadecathlonforums.com/)

I don't know what it is with this site but the only way I can make a link active is to copy it then put it in a reply on the J3 site then copy the link from the preview and then post it on here?

Glenn

Cub junkie
04-03-2018, 10:11 AM
Good deal. I hope its an active successful site. Most Aeronca/Champion/Bellanca type forums are not very active.

Bart23Sept
04-03-2018, 10:21 AM
thanks guys. there are so many of these airplanes out there it just seemed like a no-brainer to do this!

:)

aktango58
04-03-2018, 10:35 AM
My local

My early Citabria has a useful load of 496 lbs. I'm going to be a weight freak when it needs to have the covering stripped off. Even 20 lbs is worth going after (over 3 gallons of gas giving me another 30 minutes of legal air time. I'll take it).


Might be a 'Airport Legend', but story goes one guy building a small fabric plane took the time to use thin washers and to cut off the ends of every bolt to minimum length on rebuild. Put all the cut off ends in a can. At the end the can contents were over 5 lbs.

Don't know why you couldn't just have the correct length of bolt... and use thin nuts anywhere in shear, but the idea goes that if you add washers and longer than needed bolts, it adds up.

bob turner
04-03-2018, 08:33 PM
Great! I just signed up. But doesn't appear to be a way to start a thread in the Decathlon area.

Hope you have better luck than the Aeronca forum has had.

cubscout
04-03-2018, 09:58 PM
And then there those of us interested in Scouts, too.

Thanks. cubscout

JimParker256
04-03-2018, 11:13 PM
Great! I just signed up. But doesn't appear to be a way to start a thread in the Decathlon area.

Hope you have better luck than the Aeronca forum has had.

Go to that area of the forum, and start typing in the "Thread Title" box. Presto! The edit dialog box for the text of your post appears right before your eyes... (This coming from the guy who couldn't figure out where to add a "signature line" - only to have it pointed out as being directly below the other dialog which I HAD successfully used... :oops: )

HalfTonChamp
04-10-2018, 12:34 AM
Nice Bart23 Sept! I have visited your website!

bvmbandit
04-12-2018, 08:02 AM
Nice fire👍

bob turner
05-11-2018, 08:02 PM
Bump. The new ACA forum that Bart took the time and expense to create needs some participants. I am sure it will not be as big as Supercub dot org, but it does not deserve to die. Just drop in and add a comment. Or ask a question.

Bart23Sept
05-15-2018, 10:53 AM
Thanks Bob! I'll slug away at it a little longer and we'll see what happens. If people like the club forum or facebook better then that just is what it is.

TurboBeaver
07-07-2018, 09:10 AM
Scout and Champs are darn good planes. Just according
To what your mission is. To a true Cub guy ALL other airplanes are of a lesser pedigree.......lol

Steve Pierce
07-07-2018, 09:44 AM
Scout and Champs are darn good planes. Just according
To what your mission is. To a true Cub guy ALL other airplanes are of a lesser pedigree.......lol


:-) well, it use to be a Super Cub website. 8)

bob turner
07-07-2018, 11:36 AM
Champs deserve a good website. Bart has done a very nice job, and now has maybe three regular posters.

I will always be a J-3 guy with a warm spot for Super Cubs, but I own a Super Decathlon, and consider it probably dollar for dollar the best buy in aviation. Cost about the same as a J-3 in similar condition. I lust for a more or less Supercub.org type forum for the ACA products. So much to learn . . .

kcabpilot
09-23-2018, 08:35 PM
For the past 9 years I've been flying a 90 horse 7FC/EC conversion. It's been a pretty good airplane, no beauty queen mind you but it does okay. Having been originally an FC with original Delco-Remy pull starter and generator and having had Millman spars put in just before I acquired it it's a tad on the portly side with an EW of 975 lbs but I still get 800 fpm out of it at sea level on a standard day. I've done quite a bit of roaming in it but I have to admit that getting it across the Sierras is a bit on the marginal side. Before the Champ my brother and I had an M7-235C which had no trouble going anywhere. To be honest though I've always wanted a Supercub and I mean since way back when I was 14 or 15 years old and the reason I ended up with the Champ was because it was selling for a price I couldn't, in my right mind, refuse. But I'm at the age now, maybe I have ten good years of flying left in front of me, so I'm looking for a Cub to fulfill that bucket list item. Again, it doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a plain old PA18-150 that I can barnstorm around the country in and hit every dirt and grass strip I can find along the way.

So if anyone is looking for a nice 90 horse Champ I'm most likely going to be selling mine.

HalfTonChamp
09-24-2018, 11:27 AM
Well I can #MeToo everything you just said except I never owned a Maule. And you should get what you want if you're able. Your wishes are my wishes but my reality is I look at my 7EC out there and for 1/2 to 1/3 of the $ it goes 'bout as fast and other stuff as a Cub Super. And since we're hiding down here in the Champion forum I can say I've considered a Rans S-7 too. And my airplane is 50# fatter than yours to boot. What I've decided to do for now is learn to fly my airplane so well that it almost is as capable as an SC until I can get one.
But you know what, KCAB, I've been watching those Carbon Cub videos and dangit that's what I REALLY need!!

bob turner
09-24-2018, 12:54 PM
I love the Carbon Cub, but the difference between a J-3 and a CC is not worth a quarter mil to me.

Take this over to Bart's new forum. There are now four or five regular posters, and with a few more, it may make it. There are Cub guys there.

HalfTonChamp
09-24-2018, 03:42 PM
yes, I am a proponent of that site, just replying to the gentleman with which I have much in common.
And for what I have seen as Carbon Cub prices, I could have an airplane like mine for each day of the week!;-)

kcabpilot
09-24-2018, 11:37 PM
Yea I’ve been watching all the YouTube vloger’s too with their Carbon Cubs and I’ve been up to Yakima, met Jim and his whole gang and flew in the S2 and CC at one of their open house events. But really I just want a plain old Supercub with the normal amount of patina, maybe spend around 75 or so, I can always change it back into cash when the time comes to pack it in.

The Champ has been fun though, it’s not a boring plane. Easy to fly but kind of a challenge to fly gracefully on the edge. Adverse yaw is more like a feature rather than a flaw and if turning right sometimes means you have to move the stick to the left well, that’s what you do.

Brandsman
09-25-2018, 01:24 AM
I have just finished a 10 year rebuild on a 85hp Aeronca Chief and just trying to resolve an engine problem (blasted thing will NOT start!) before I get to fly it the first time. I understand they are nice aircraft but I cannot see me moving away from my J-3 and hot rod J-5 anytime soon. I got the Chief as a project years ago to help fill the 40’ container when I bought the J-3 and 5 in CA in 2004. I keep quiet on this forum mostly but I really enjoy the banter and the depth of knowledge you guys share, I learn something every day! I have joined Aeronca and Auster sites (yep got one of those too) but although I post a lot more there in an effort to get conversation going, threads generally die quickly - just not the numbers.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

skywagon8a
09-25-2018, 05:41 AM
.......and just trying to resolve an engine problem (blasted thing will NOT start!) before I get to fly it the first time.
Ah Hah ! A challenge. Another long distance problem to solve.
I assume that you are using good fresh gasoline.
How is the compression?
Do all of the valves go up and down?
Does it suck fuel up from the carburetor?
Is there a primer installed?
Does the fuel make it's way into the cylinders?
Do the magnetos make sparks jump off the little points on the ends of the spark plugs?
What type of magnetos do you have? They all work the same, yet some have little nuisance quirks.
Remove the top plugs, leaving them connected to the wires set them on top of the cylinders while pulling the prop through. Can you see good sparks?
Do the sparks occur when the pistons are at top dead center? (Yeah guys, this is just for starting.)
What color are the sparks? Yellow or blue or somewhere in between?
Are the sparks strong or weak?

bob turner
09-25-2018, 12:38 PM
My bet is that you are not sucking gas out of the idle ports. When you pull the prop do you hear a "sllssh" sucking sound?

We had one where a piece of safety wire interfered with float operation. Float bowl too low; no suckee.

Set up properly, these Continentals almost always fire up on the sixth pull. Be sure to pre- oil it if you wind up pulling it through twenty times without a start on a new engine.

Brandsman
09-25-2018, 11:21 PM
My bet is that you are not sucking gas out of the idle ports. When you pull the prop do you hear a "sllssh" sucking sound?

We had one where a piece of safety wire interfered with float operation. Float bowl too low; no suckee.

Set up properly, these Continentals almost always fire up on the sixth pull. Be sure to pre- oil it if you wind up pulling it through twenty times without a start on a new engine.

I have a C-90 in my J-3 and it does start first kick every time. Here I think the aircraft mechanic and engine man have got something wrong for sure and I will pass on your comments and those from Skywagon. I don’t want to answer in full here as I think it would constitute a thread hi-jack, but I really appreciate the input from both of you.

kcabpilot
09-25-2018, 11:32 PM
Yea my C-90 rarely makes it past the second blade unless I forget to turn the mags on.

JimParker256
09-26-2018, 10:02 AM
Yea my C-90 rarely makes it past the second blade unless I forget to turn the mags on.

Same for my O-200... I've only forgotten to turn the mags on once, but it was memorable! And I do have the lightweight replacement starter, which spins the prop a good bit faster than the old pull-starter.

bob turner
09-26-2018, 06:23 PM
Thread drift is allowed here. Most airplane forums are not heavily policed or monitored. Note that this thread encourages you to visit another forum, and management here is happy with that. Enlightened!

HalfTonChamp
09-26-2018, 09:41 PM
Agree. I've owned three small continentals, when they are fueling and firing, they start easy. Harder to start hot than cold. My $.02

kcabpilot
09-30-2018, 07:02 PM
A local Carbon Cub owner decided his 26 inch Airstreaks were getting a little worn so he "tossed" them and bought a new set and I figured what the heck I'm not so proud I can't at least try on an old pair of shoes. All I can say is wow! I guess once you go fat you can never go back ;-)

bob turner
09-30-2018, 07:14 PM
My only experience is Cubs - 8", 26", and 31". I greatly prefer the 8".

kcabpilot
10-03-2018, 10:00 AM
The bungee gear on the Cub is a lot better on rough ground at taxi speeds than the Champ's oleo because the taxi springs are really short and stiff. I tried the 26's out on a pretty rough strip that hasn't been taken care of for the past three years and they did a much better job than the 800's but if you are mostly landing on pavement the Airstreaks aren't going to last long. Fortunately I am able to land on the grass next to the runway at my home airport so I might keep them on for awhile but ultimately, for me, the 800's are more practical.

cubdriver2
10-03-2018, 10:18 AM
The Champs oleo gear is way softer then a Cub type gear. If you fly both on skis you will have no doubt that the oleo works all the time. Bungees only work when you drop it in. Tire diameter and pressure helps it ride softer also. The only time an oleo sucks is in a strong crosswind.

Glenn

RaisedByWolves
10-03-2018, 10:34 AM
The Champs oleo gear is way softer then a Cub type gear. If you fly both on skis you will have no doubt that the oleo works all the time. Bungees only work when you drop it in. Tire diameter and pressure helps it ride softer also. The only time an oleo sucks is in a strong crosswind.

Glenn

It does get weird when the wind lifts a wing and the tires are on the ground still. Have to use a lot of rudder, funny sitting in the back when a cub guy is flying

bob turner
10-03-2018, 10:57 AM
About half the Super Cubs here have ILTs. (Incredibly large tires). They operate 100% on surfaces that require only a 6:00x6. They are aware of the performance penalties and can afford the cost. It is an appearance thing for them. That is a good reason for big tires - whatever floats your boat!

cubdriver2
10-03-2018, 11:09 AM
It does get weird when the wind lifts a wing and the tires are on the ground still. Have to use a lot of rudder, funny sitting in the back when a cub guy is flying

Stop messing up Farris's head

Glenn

kcabpilot
10-03-2018, 06:45 PM
It took me awhile to get used to the Champs oleos and I’m talking about the heavy duty “no bounce” gear that hangs down about half a foot all pigeon-toed. It works well if you just drop it on and it can absorb an astounding amount of downward momentum but if you try to grease it on it’s very rare that both oleos compress at the same time so you get that weird leaning to one side but still tracking straight down the runway situation. True to it’s name though it’s almost impossible to “bounce” and lord knows I’ve tried.

But when you've slowed to a taxi there’s very little oleo travel left, no more than an inch and you are riding on the short taxi springs. That’s when I can feel it bottoming if I’m on rough ground. The Cub gear is kind of the opposite in that it’s basically at the top of its travel in that situation and has plenty to give if you run over a gofer hole. The Airstreaks give the Champ a much smoother taxi, I’ve never been on anything bigger than 8.50’s and I was pleased with how they handled. They also didn’t seem to slow me down, still hauled along at 85 mph. ;-)

cubdriver2
10-03-2018, 06:59 PM
It took me awhile to get used to the Champs oleos and I’m talking about the heavy duty “no bounce” gear that hangs down about half a foot all pigeon-toed. It works well if you just drop it on and it can absorb an astounding amount of downward momentum but if you try to grease it on it’s very rare that both oleos compress at the same time so you get that weird leaning to one side but still tracking straight down the runway situation. True to it’s name though it’s almost impossible to “bounce” and lord knows I’ve tried.

But when you've slowed to a taxi there’s very little oleo travel left, no more than an inch and you are riding on the short taxi springs. That’s when I can feel it bottoming if I’m on rough ground. The Cub gear is kind of the opposite in that it’s basically at the top of its travel in that situation and has plenty to give if you run over a gofer hole. The Airstreaks give the Champ a much smoother taxi, I’ve never been on anything bigger than 8.50’s and I was pleased with how they handled. They also didn’t seem to slow me down, still hauled along at 85 mph. ;-)

Have you checked the oil level?

Glenn

kcabpilot
10-03-2018, 09:05 PM
Just did the annual, 8.5 ounces of 5606 for the no-bounce gear. I’m talking about the Champ oleo gear in general, not just my specific aircraft. They all perform like this.

cubdriver2
10-03-2018, 10:21 PM
Just did the annual, 8.5 ounces of 5606 for the no-bounce gear. I’m talking about the Champ oleo gear in general, not just my specific aircraft. They all perform like this.

My 7AC/7CCM convert, non no bounce gear had about 3" of travel in taxi mode. Smooooooooooth

Glenn

AK81
10-03-2018, 11:03 PM
Just did the annual, 8.5 ounces of 5606 for the no-bounce gear. I’m talking about the Champ oleo gear in general, not just my specific aircraft. They all perform like this.

My experience with a 7GC is similar. I might be one of the few who ran stock no-bounce gear and then switched to field approved supercub style gear. I loved the cub gear with skis on uneven, chopped up snow such as where snowmachines had been around. While great for the landing, the no-bounce gear just couldn't soak up the bumps on roll-out and takeoff, and it felt like it put too much stress on the airframe. The cub gear was just as good on wheels in a variety of off-airport operations, including big rocks and dips, bumpy sandbars, and the like. It also had other advantages, such as being taller, wider, and lighter than stock, but I always thought the bungee-hydrosorb was a much better fit for off airport flying with the Champ, and the best mod I put on the airplane.

ChampManStan
10-04-2018, 01:31 AM
I built the first set of Champ gear legs to use stock Supercub hydrosorbs and shock struts in 1973. I built a jig to weld up
the gear Vees and loaned it to others over the years. This was done after I traveled to anchorage and talked to
Attlee Dodge about my idea for cub type gear on a champ. He told me to forget it it won’t work kid.
I went ahead and did it anyway and it’s been well liked and copied
Stan

skywagon8a
10-04-2018, 05:40 AM
..... but if you try to grease it on it’s very rare that both oleos compress at the same time so you get that weird leaning to one side but still tracking straight down the runway situation.

But when you've slowed to a taxi there’s very little oleo travel left, no more than an inch and you are riding on the short taxi springs. That’s when I can feel it bottoming if I’m on rough ground. . ;-)
When was the last time that the gear was off the airplane for a good inspection as this does not sound right? Something is binding. I watched a fellow land once with one gear hanging down after whatever was supposed to hold it up had broken. The whole shock mechanism had fallen out of the housing.

flylowslow
10-04-2018, 08:53 AM
My buddy just got this a few weeks ago up in Walker, MN. haven't had a chance to fly her yet as the wx has been so miserable. 39143

kcabpilot
10-04-2018, 10:15 AM
skywagon8a - as I said I’m not talking about just my particular aircraft, this is how the no-bounce gear acts as it has a much longer stroke than the standard oleo gear. It will also extend on takeoff roll if you keep the tail down at around 25 mph increasing the AOA and shortening the run for soft field use. It’s a good setup in many aspects I just don’t think it has enough sponge at taxi on rough ground but the Airstreaks seem to solve that issue from what I’ve seen so far.

I’ve added a picture that shows how much more travel the oleos have over standard gear.

kcabpilot
10-04-2018, 12:12 PM
I built the first set of Champ gear legs to use stock Supercub hydrosorbs and shock struts in 1973. I built a jig to weld up
the gear Vees and loaned it to others over the years. This was done after I traveled to anchorage and talked to
Attlee Dodge about my idea for cub type gear on a champ. He told me to forget it it won’t work kid.
I went ahead and did it anyway and it’s been well liked and copied
Stan

That might explain this picture I took of a plane at Calaveras a few years back, obviously an Aeronca but the gear had me scratching my head.,

skywagon8a
10-04-2018, 02:22 PM
kcabpilot, I used to own a 7GCB with the no bounce gear and never experienced an uneven gear extension as you have described. I also learned to fly in a 7AC with the original gear and never in that model did I experience an uneven gear extension. That Is why I asked the question. If it were mine I would be concerned.

skywagon8a
10-04-2018, 02:31 PM
My buddy just got this a few weeks ago up in Walker, MN. haven't had a chance to fly her yet as the wx has been so miserable. 39143
Perhaps it is just the picture but that airplane appears to be too nose high on the floats. Check the part numbers which are stamped on the struts. They should be Front 69649, Diagonal 62650, Rear 62651.
This is the parts catalog: http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/uploads/9/6/8/3/9683162/edo_float_models_089089a-2000_floats_on_champion_leaf__oleo_gear_airplanes. pdf

kcabpilot
10-04-2018, 06:49 PM
kcabpilot, I used to own a 7GCB with the no bounce gear and never experienced an uneven gear extension as you have described. I also learned to fly in a 7AC with the original gear and never in that model did I experience an uneven gear extension. That Is why I asked the question. If it were mine I would be concerned.

I don’t think it happens with the standard gear and won’t be noticeable with the no-bounce if you plant it firmly but it’s a well known “feature” that even Budd Davisson commented on in one of his pireps years ago and has been widely discussed. The no-bounce gear was developed for the L-16 and as I said it is great for spot landings where you just keep your controlled descent rate and don’t even flare. It can absorb a heck of a lot of inertia and true to its name - no bounce.

skywagon8a
10-04-2018, 07:08 PM
Whatever, I'm not in the habit of planting any airplane firmly. Just the opposite, I strive to not feel the touchdown at all in whatever airplane I may be flying. If I can feel the touch down I assume that I did something wrong.

Cub Special Ed
10-04-2018, 07:23 PM
I dont own one but im about to go out with a new pilot with a new 7gc tomorrow to do some meneuvers and get him aquainted with his new chimp. Its a nice plane with a lot of room (but its not a cub:sad:). Its a nose dragger converted to tailwheel. Should be fun (for a champ:wink:).

HalfTonChamp
10-04-2018, 07:37 PM
OK. A note of sarcasm in there? Not a problem. Have a great safe flight tomorrow.

Cub Special Ed
10-04-2018, 08:01 PM
OK. A note of sarcasm in there? Not a problem. Have a great safe flight tomorrow.

Thanks! Got to yank some chains once and a while when the opportunity presents itself.

I do have a question for you champ drivers. I see this one has a fuel drain in the tail and have found out what its for. My question is: do people tear them out regularly in the brush or is it fairly safe.

HalfTonChamp
10-04-2018, 08:31 PM
Thanks! Got to yank some chains once and a while when the opportunity presents itself.

I do have a question for you champ drivers. I see this one has a fuel drain in the tail and have found out what its for. My question is: do people tear them out regularly in the brush or is it fairly safe.

In the BRUSH!? Hey, these Champs won’t go in the brush. They’re not Cubs!😊
You mean the fuel drain about baggage area underneath? I haven’t. Don’t know if others have but I havent heard about it. Or thought about it since you mention it.

kcabpilot
10-04-2018, 08:42 PM
Yea any “brush” that would grab onto it would have to make it past the lower gear supports first.

Cub Special Ed
10-04-2018, 09:40 PM
This one was a tri champ converted. It has wing tanks that just gravity feed between the two. No selector, just on and off. The junction at the rear above baggage where the fuel lines come together has a drain that runs to the belly behind baggage area. New to me also as ive only flown 7ac and citabrias (did i just admit that? Damn social media!). Just happened to notice it when i was looking the plane over. Probably wouldnt be an issue if they wern't shaped like a weiner dog!
39156
Similarities?
39157

Here's mine. Lol
39155

kcabpilot
10-05-2018, 05:09 PM
When Champion owned the TC they came out with some bizarre iterations. After the failure of the tricycle geared FC I guess they had so many left over nose wheels that they tried selling the 7JC - Tricon. Probably one of the weirdest looking airplanes you'd ever see and I doubt there are any left that haven't mercifully been converted back to a regular EC with a tailwheel.


They also made the Lancer, a twin engined Champ that had a yoke in the front seat and a stick in the back seat.

Cub Special Ed
10-05-2018, 05:43 PM
Well, he had a great time with his new champ! Very comfortable now and a direct 9 gusting 18kt wind. Very nice champ but heavy as hell on the contols. Overall, sweet bird (but still not a cub). I am inpressed. If i didnt have a cub id buy one.

Cub Special Ed
10-05-2018, 07:33 PM
Heres the cross country pa11. Some weird stuff done with cubs also.
39167

bob turner
10-05-2018, 07:41 PM
I love this forum, and learn a lot here. I am sure Steve won't mind me saying this - we should take this over to Bart's new forum, which is devoted to Champs, and breathe a little more life into that worthwhile discussion group.

1934A
10-05-2018, 10:38 PM
Does that cross country 11 fly twice as nice, or 1/2 as nice as an original 11? I'd never seen that before!

kcabpilot
10-07-2018, 03:00 AM
Too lazy to look up the link but there's a whole story behind that twin 11, used at airshows for a number of years back when flying was still wondrous and fun.

Cub Special Ed
10-07-2018, 03:11 AM
Too lazy to look up the link but there's a whole story behind that twin 11, used at airshows for a number of years back when flying was still wondrous and fun.

A man named wagner. Think he did a pacer to.

Cub Special Ed
10-07-2018, 03:14 AM
He did
39195

kcabpilot
10-08-2018, 01:06 AM
That's freakin' crazy, there's absolutely no reason to do that other than to just prove you can do it. :lol:

scout88305
10-09-2018, 09:06 PM
N2612Z I know that plane and some of its unique history