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Anyone tried cantilevered tail feathers?

Marc Davis

Registered User
Portland, Oregon
I see super11XP is playing with foil shaped tail feathers. Anyone tried cantilevered tail feathers on a cub?
I keep looking at the Wittman Tailwind design and wondering how it could be adapted. I think you would have to give up the cub style trim.

Marc
 
Marc
I could be done and still have the cub style trim .Look at the 180's and 185's , I think some, if not all of them used that type trim . I did it on my Pegazair.How ever I should have built it with more travel.
Doug
 
Are you just trying to eliminate drag by removing flying wires?

A full flying stabilator like the Helio would be nice on a slot/slat equipped cub but it would be heavy!! And not very bush worthy. You would have to do quite a lot of structural improvements which would add more weight. The best part of a cub in Nasty rough terrain is the light tail.

Jason
 
The torsion loads on the aft fuselage would require a through investigation if you removed the flying wires.
 
Yes, I was thinking about drag. The main thing that holds me back from getting a super cub is a huge pile of cash. But the other thing is the cruse speed. Many of the places I'd like to fly a super cub are several hours away by Tri-pacer. By SuperCub they are unreachable in a weekend. My dream plane would have 120 mph cruse but have better short / high field performance than a Tri-Pacer. I realize I'd have to give up something on the low end. I don't need to go into Mile High. I just want to get out of Johnson Creek without feeling like I have to lift my feet at the end of the runway. Probably the right answer for me is a 180hp Stinson or Pacer, but I like to build, and I want an experimental, so I keep thinking about ways to tweak the cub to go a bit faster. Spring gear, raked windshield, cantilevered tail, cleaner cowl, maybe even different foil. Fantasy mostly but I'm having a hard time putting it out of my head.

Marc
 
Yes, I was thinking about drag. The main thing that holds me back from getting a super cub is a huge pile of cash. But the other thing is the cruse speed. Many of the places I'd like to fly a super cub are several hours away by Tri-pacer. By SuperCub they are unreachable in a weekend. My dream plane would have 120 mph cruse but have better short / high field performance than a Tri-Pacer. I realize I'd have to give up something on the low end. I don't need to go into Mile High. I just want to get out of Johnson Creek without feeling like I have to lift my feet at the end of the runway. Probably the right answer for me is a 180hp Stinson or Pacer, but I like to build, and I want an experimental, so I keep thinking about ways to tweak the cub to go a bit faster. Spring gear, raked windshield, cantilevered tail, cleaner cowl, maybe even different foil. Fantasy mostly but I'm having a hard time putting it out of my head.

Marc

Seriously, you sound like a good candidate for a early model Husky or Scout. They have the cruise speed you are looking for and will get in and out of just about anyplace you would want to go.
 
A Scout would be a good aircraft for distance, speed, fuel (70gal) numbers. There is less support (and aircraft) than PA-18s etc.

Jerry Mehlhaff, ACA, is a awesome guy who jumps into action when he can help a customer. The ACA factory is nice too.
 
Several years ago I built a PA18 for a friend of mine. It has a fresh 0320-B2B engine with a N8244 borer prop, BLR vortex generators. 26" goodyear tires on 3" extended gear. I also installed a Leading Edge exhaust system. The 18 cruises between 115-120mph and gets off the ground in 150 ft. The aircraft is a little on the heavy side with all the gadgets he wanted installed. trim a little weight off and the performance would increase. The biggest gains were with the Borer prop and the Leading edge exhaust system. sounds to me that this is where you want to be Marc.

John
 
If you are on a budget, a Pacer with a 160/Borer is a surprising performer. I would rather have a Clipper, since they do not have that ugly steering wheel, but pacers are under 20 grand.

I was really surprised by Don Lee's Pacer in Talkeetna. what an eye- opener!
 
Several years ago I built a PA18 for a friend of mine. It has a fresh 0320-B2B engine with a N8244 borer prop, BLR vortex generators. 26" goodyear tires on 3" extended gear. I also installed a Leading Edge exhaust system. The 18 cruises between 115-120mph and gets off the ground in 150 ft. The aircraft is a little on the heavy side with all the gadgets he wanted installed. trim a little weight off and the performance would increase. The biggest gains were with the Borer prop and the Leading edge exhaust system. sounds to me that this is where you want to be Marc.

John

John

A question about the Borer Prop you used?

Assuming 100% efficiency at 2700 RPM a 44" Borer prop would achieve approximately 112 mph
The Math is 2700*44"= 118,800 ipm/12 = 9900' fpm/5280 = 1.875 miles per minute * 60 = 112.5 mph
Assuming cruise RPM in the 2450 RPM range I would expect a cruise speed in the 102 mph range
just wondering what you attribute the speed gain to?
 
I think that any Cub that gets off in 150' and cruises at 112 is a true exception. A stock Cub will come close in cruise, but takes closer to 250' for a takeoff roll. Borer equipped Cubs are not particularly fast in cruise - expect around 95 with full Alaska style mods.

Opinion, not fact.
 
Thanks for all the input guys. The Husky would be great but the Pacer seems more in my price range.
I also know the TriPacer fairly well so a Pacer so it is a logical next step.

Also, I am lucky to have formed a friendship with a guy who has been working
on planes since about 1940 (high school), through WWII and worked at the local
Piper dealer when the Tri Pacer was first introduced . He worked on his first O-320 in the mid 50's.
If I learn 1/100th of what he knows a I'll consider it a major accomplishment.

Marc
 
Marc: Since you know something of tri-pacers I just thought I'd pass along a very interesting experience I just had. I recently delivered a nice low time tri-pacer to a friend who is very enthusiastic about converting them to pacers. I personally am a one track mind as to what I like in an airplane--control stick, sit in the center of the airplane, uncluttered view. Anyway---when my friend brought me home in one of his creations I was able to maybe see some real advantages. He has sawed off that tri-pacer nose gear---installed a nice tailwheel---installed different main gear---mounted an 0-360 on the nose--added some fat tires. I have no "real numbers" for you; but I was impressed. It made me think perhaps I could change my mind about sitting in the middle of the plane and maybe that steering wheel thing might be o.k. I do know that with the modern fuel prices; the speed and performance might well be worth it. We were seeing a fairly steady 154 mph ground speed on the gps with a slight tailwind. He reported a steady 134 ground speed on his ride home into that same beeze. Want more info ???? pm me, I can put you in touch.
 
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