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SC Rebuild

banner tow pilot

banner tow pilot

Registered User
Atlanta, GA
We are just starting the process of rebuilding a SC. The a/c will be used to to banners and was just looking for some thoughts from yall about what to do with the plane.

1- The plane has the 18 gal wing tanks, but we would like to put bigger tanks in it. What is the better tanks the 25 gal or the 30 gal? We would like the most fuel we can get just for the endurance, banner are getting bigger and flying longer.

2- We will be putting in an extended baggage also. What is the best longest baggage area?

3- Wings, we are planning on squaring the tips and putting vg's on it. we are trying to figure out how to get more lift (which make for a bigger banner to pull) without extending the wings. If we extend them the plane wont fit in the t-hangers at out airport. Any other thoughts here.

Also we would like to put a horziontal tail brace on, who makes them? Is there anything else that yall think should be done? the plane has a 180ho and a borer prop. thanks for the input.
Matt
 
How about a 32 gallon belly tank instead of all that work on adding wing tanks, and it will be cheaper. Why the extended baggage for a tow plane?

DW
 
we tow banner all over the southeast and the baggage is so we can haul out 7' tall letters and polls and misc stuff.
 
The combination belly pod (the one that includes a fuel tank plus cargo) may be an option to consider.

The 30.5 FA Dodge tanks will give you plenty of endurance, but would also make the plane plenty heavy: I'd think you'd be over gross with a pilot, full tanks, and the banner. Do you get a waiver on the weight if you're towing a banner?

What are the pole dimensions? I have a hard time visualizing them being short enough to fit into an extended baggage compartment: maybe you are thinking of the fishing pole tube or the sleeping compartment that some -12s and -18s have. I wouldn't want to put much weight into a fishing pole tube, and you can't legally put cargo in the sleeping compartment.

Can you carry the poles as an external load?

Eric
 
Based on reading this:

Build up the lightest cub possible and include the 30 gallon tanks. I would not worry about the gas sloshing around in them....just 3 point it and don't get on the brakes, its not like you are landing at 500' strips to pull banners. If you are only going to fly it one-up I would just make some small storage where the back seat is.

Strap on a firman pod and throw your banners/baggage in there. You might need to leave the rear door off to get your poles in there (might need to get creative). Just make sure you know how to load it to get the CG as far fwd as possible.

Once you are at a location you can drop the pod (25 pounds) and go pull your banners.

Tim
 
Lots of misconceptions about Atlees 30 gal tanks, Atlee tanks weigh 6lbs more than stock per side. All the newer Atlee tanks have baffles that reduce / eliminate the sloshing where I can't feel it. Currently have over 2200 hours on these tanks with no leaks or problems and regularly land in 300 - 400 ft in Off Airport conditions ( Not a Strip) . No reason you can't build a light cub with the big tanks and a extended baggage which would be no problem hauling 7 ft poles, banners. Cargo fuel pods weigh 25 - 35 lbs, plus the pump and plumbing which you could remove if thats the way you go . No problem building a 1170 lb cub 360 lbs of fuel 200 lb pilot still under gross in a 1750 lb Cub by 20 lbs.
 
Speedo said:
The combination belly pod (the one that includes a fuel tank plus cargo) may be an option to consider.

The 30.5 FA Dodge tanks will give you plenty of endurance, but would also make the plane plenty heavy: I'd think you'd be over gross with a pilot, full tanks, and the banner. Do you get a waiver on the weight if you're towing a banner?

What are the pole dimensions? I have a hard time visualizing them being short enough to fit into an extended baggage compartment: maybe you are thinking of the fishing pole tube or the sleeping compartment that some -12s and -18s have. I wouldn't want to put much weight into a fishing pole tube, and you can't legally put cargo in the sleeping compartment.

Can you carry the poles as an external load?

Eric
Click to expand...

When we tow weight is not a big deal with the banner. we go up to 40'tall by 100' long and they weigh about 30-40 lbs. The poles for the big 40'x100' banners break down to 5' sections. But the letters we use are 7' tall with a total height of around 8'.

The cub we currently have is basically stock with a 180 hung on the front and vg's on it. It also has a extended baggage on it. It is prob 1.5'x1.5' and prob 2.5-3' deep. It works great with us hauling out stuff around.

A short strip for us in 1800' so we have plenty of room.
 
I think Stearman 600 on this site tows banners in Southern CA. Look him up. He probably has some useful information for you.
 
Icarus said:
Lots of misconceptions about Atlees 30 gal tanks, Atlee tanks weigh 6lbs more than stock per side. All the newer Atlee tanks have baffles that reduce / eliminate the sloshing where I can't feel it. Currently have over 2200 hours on these tanks with no leaks or problems and regularly land in 300 - 400 ft in Off Airport conditions ( Not a Strip) . No reason you can't build a light cub with the big tanks and a extended baggage which would be no problem hauling 7 ft poles, banners. Cargo fuel pods weigh 25 - 35 lbs, plus the pump and plumbing which you could remove if thats the way you go . No problem building a 1170 lb cub 360 lbs of fuel 200 lb pilot still under gross in a 1750 lb Cub by 20 lbs.
Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment: I've got 1000 hours in my plane with these tanks, and no sloshing is noticeable. What is noticeable is how different the plane feels when heavy vs light: it's much more fun to fly with 10 gal per side than with 30 gals. The fun quotient isn't the priority when you're towing banners, and with a 180 out front the extra weight of the fuel and banner probably aren't an issue until the DA gets high.

Eric
 
yea, we are looking at staying in the air for 4+ hrs. we are in atlanta most of the time, so our DA's dont get much over 3000 in the summer. Right now the cub we use has the standard 36 gal and 3 hrs is all we can do, and that is landing with 5 gal. Most of out banners we are burning 8-10 gph, so we are right at vfr min.
 
Charlie Center (crosswind stol) makes a horizontal tail brace.If you cant go longer on your wings go deeper maybe a larger flap chordwise. A longer aspect ratio is more efficient though. One of Wayne Mackeys slats would add chord.Make some tip extensions that slide on and use quick connects of your choice, they could then be taken off in minutes so you could hanger the bird. Sounds like it will be exp. If not good luck with the mods. You may also get better economy and longer range using injected version engine or a ellision throttle body. I agree with previous post fuel pods of any sort are very heavy, atlee tanks are a better bet for your application. sounds like a fun project.
 
the cuff leading edge is a big addition to lift.

Not a crosswind company fan, but they have the kit for the tail and cuff.
 
The X-Wind tail brace is a must for the 180HP Cubs, saves your jackscrew & yoke. The cuff doesn't help alot except high angle of attack ( might be good for the Banner towing) it can also be a little quirky in the stall especially crosswinds. The cuff also adds 14 pounds total weight
 
Had the same thoughts some time ago, when I started to use my Cub (150 hp, VG's) for the same job. I started to add the 32 gal belly tank, which works fine to increase time between fuel stops. Than I installed the F.A.Dodge extended baggage with removable cross tube. Unfortunately I had to find out, there is not enough room for the 7ft banners.
On longer flights, it's not very convenient, to have the banner stick out up to where your head is.
Fish pole tube hasn't enough diameter for the whole setup. If I could start again, I would opt for bigger wing tanks and the Firman belly pod with the rear opening to stick out the long banner poles.
 
wacodriver said:
Had the same thoughts some time ago, when I started to use my Cub (150 hp, VG's) for the same job. I started to add the 32 gal belly tank, which works fine to increase time between fuel stops. Than I installed the F.A.Dodge extended baggage with removable cross tube. Unfortunately I had to find out, there is not enough room for the 7ft banners.
On longer flights, it's not very convenient, to have the banner stick out up to where your head is.
Fish pole tube hasn't enough diameter for the whole setup. If I could start again, I would opt for bigger wing tanks and the Firman belly pod with the rear opening to stick out the long banner poles.
Click to expand...

our baggage area works great. we have the fa dodge removable cross bar, but i usually have the back park of the back seat laying in the baggage area and never remove the cross bar and just slide the banners under it and the letter banners lay in there like they belong.
 
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