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NimpoCub
10-26-2008, 11:33 AM
I have a new SCub bud here who wants a pair of wheel penetration (not hyd) skiis and I told him I'd search the SCub calssifieds. I did, and didn't find any.

Can you (yeah, YOU) help to locate a pair?
When he gets back to civilization (& his 'puter) he'll join up here, I was hoping to impress him w/the service here first. :)

Snert
10-26-2008, 03:55 PM
Logan
I know little to nothing about skis. We don't have a lot of use for them in this part of the world. All I know is that they work better if you keep the curved end up and forward. Since nobody else jumped in, I am considering these for when I move up north again. http://www.trickair.com/
I don't know if they are approved for your airplane yet and they are probably more than you want to spend.

pa15j3
10-26-2008, 05:29 PM
"I am considering these for when I move up north again."
Really, Snert!!!!!!!

spinner2
10-26-2008, 08:53 PM
Landis makes a nice wheel-penetration ski for Cubs. It is their model LW2500. Weight is 90 pounds and you must use 8.00x6" tires only.

aktango58
10-26-2008, 10:50 PM
check the aerro ski.

Retract by spring, down with johnson bar. They work great, and you can still get out on a wet snow day.

NimpoCub
10-26-2008, 11:23 PM
Hey Gary!

fly_cubs
10-27-2008, 11:20 AM
SNIP-- when I move up north again.---- SNIP.


Absolutely unapproved maneuver. Who else would keep supplying my inflate-a-dates?

pa15j3
10-27-2008, 06:32 PM
Hey Logan!!

Widebody
12-25-2008, 11:47 AM
I'm looking to buy a set before the end of the year.
I've narrowed it down between the Aero & Landes.

For those of you who fly them, can you give me some
likes, dislikes and how they perform for you.

I have a set of Aero 3000 straights for the deep stuff up north,
but need some penetrating skis for here in ND.

Kinda short notice, but lets hear what you got and why.

Merry Christmas and Thanks,
Brad

pzinck
12-25-2008, 12:25 PM
I have got wheel penetration skis on both 185 and 180hp supercub. They suck in wet snow. Dry snow they are a good compromise if you must get on tarmac or push into a dry hangar. Getting gas is much easier. Wet snow lots of drag taking off and instant drag when landing on sticky snow. I would not go back to straights as i like the versatility, but straight skis perform much better when wet sticky conditions abound.

mvivion
12-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Brad,

Take your pick, frankly. The Landes penetration skis are without doubt the tougher of those skis. They are PROBABLY also heavier than the Aero 2800 retracts.

The Landes skis also have much more surface area than do the Aero 2800's. They are longer as well, which can be better in rough snow.

If you are buying new, I suspect the Landes skis are going to be cheaper, though the Aero retracts really aren't that bad.

If you're buying used, make sure that the Aero 2800s you buy have the later model rigger arms, which are longer. If you find an older set for sale, with the older arms, you can buy the newer arms from Aero. Don't know what the cost is, but it is well worth doing in any case. The older ones were terrible in any kind of deep snow. I understand the ones with the newer arms are much better in that regard.

If you're buying used, and you find a set of the Landes penetration skis, contact Landes to see if you can get hold of a set of the tailwheels they use on the newer skis. They create a LOT less drag than do the older ones. One trick for getting un-stuck with the Landes penetration skis is to remove the tailwheels from the skis, takeoff, and then put them back on whenever conditions permit. They create a lot more drag than they would appear to. The new style tailwheels are much better, I'm told.

If it matters, the Aeros are probably going to be easier to install/remove, though there's more "stuff" to connect and disconnect. The Landes skis will require some serious jacking or better yet a hoist.

If you plan to be in rough stuff quite a bit, I'd lean toward the Landes skis-they are hell for stout. The Aeros aren't nearly as tough, but...

MTV

pzinck
12-25-2008, 12:50 PM
Mike i have the newer style tailwheels on my cubs landes skis, the 185 has the older big springs and larger tailwheel. Do you know if the older landes skis can be converted to the smaller tail wheels? You seem to indicate it is being done?

aktango58
12-25-2008, 12:51 PM
Brad,

I have Aero skis. I used them on the 90 hp champ and PA-12 trapping. I got the 12 in some overflow :oops: and got stuck. But heck, I needed hip boots the water was so deep on the ice...

I flew the Champ off of 1,400' on a gravel bar one time in the rain with knee deep fresh wet snow, took a couple of passes to get a path nocked down, then she came out.

The same champ I flew continuously off of 970' at the cabins, but groomed the strip for that. Me fuel and 150 lbs was all I could take.

Hands down the ability to lift the tires out is worth the extra $.

Coming into an airport at the end of the day and pulling the release so you can pull up to the pump is great, especially after you just left a lake with wet snow that penetration skis would not work...

If you are really serious but can not decide, if you will pay to ship them I could send you my set to try for a couple of days. They have no rigging as I am in the middle of changeing from normal gear to 3" extended. They require 600x6 tires.

Aero ski also certified them with all the back filled in, and I was/am going to make an emergency plate to slip under the tire for strait skis like my old Schnider had. REAL performance than.

If you want to try them, let me know. I was going to put them on after Jan 18 when I get the doc's ok for lifting 25 lbs.

George

aktango58
12-25-2008, 01:02 PM
Mike,

how much strenght before we break the gear and gear attach fittings? When you do have problems, aluminum is very easy to fix compared to glass, for me anyway.

The new/old arms? are you taking about the attach fittings on the plane? Yes the new ones drop the skis down so zero tire is through, a big difference.

If the ski swing arm is different, I am not aware.

The gear needs to have a fitting welded on the bottom, or be drilled for the bolt on fittings. I think my short gear has the drill holes so you could use thoes.

Or, feel free to make a trip up here, (alaska airlines is easy) and spend a couple hours with me changing to the skis, (I am limited to pushing the hoist button right now), and we could take her out for you to try.

mvivion
12-25-2008, 01:16 PM
You're absolutely right on potential damage. Working skis in rough snow puts more loads into an aircraft's structure than probably any other type of off airport flying there is. Is tougher important? Dunno, never got that far, myself.

You're correct on the attach points vs the arms.

pzink, I know of at least one fellow who's converted a set on a 185 to the new style wheels. He claims an impressive improvement in performance, and he would know. I don't know what he went through to do that, though.

MTV

pzinck
12-25-2008, 01:22 PM
Thanks mike, i will give them a call and see if there is a kit. Possibly some people are just modifying on their own. I have also been told about removing the spring/tailwheels if in a jam on a small strip with adverse conditions. Some say to deflate the tire as well. I was thinking a flat tire may create more drag though by catching slush.

Widebody
12-25-2008, 02:07 PM
Thanks for the reports guys.
That's what I like to hear.

That's a hell of an offer George, much appreciated, but I'll take
your guys word on them. That's good enough for me :wink: .

I can check tmrw on price with Aero, but does anyone know off hand.
Got Landes price off website.

Thanks,
Brad

aktango58
12-25-2008, 02:34 PM
This is pulling it out of my hat, or a lower place... But around $6,000 sticks in my brain!

I happen to have a set of fittings from an Aeronca oleo gear champ that have the lower holes! If you can use them...

FyI: when you need parts or help, refer to T.J. good guy thread to get an idea what the folks there are like...

It is obvious that good character was passed from father to son...

Scouter
12-25-2008, 05:42 PM
I have Aero R2800s. They had been modded with slightly wider plastic before I bought them, I think it helps quite a bit. They are a decent ski if its not a work for a living plane. Last winter we finally had decent powder, and I was happy with the performance on my plane. They are kind of a fred flintstone design, with the lever down, spring up deal, cable releases to the cockpit, and heavy as well. Mine weigh 57 lbs per ski. I had Scheneider penetrations on it before, a big improvement from those. The problem was the mashed potato snow on a 42 degree day. Cold hard conditions they worked ok. There are quite a few sets of R2800 here in Maine on cubs, they all work well on the lighter airplanes. There are a couple used sets for sale local as well, if you have some interest I can check them out for price.

Jim

aktango58
12-25-2008, 07:05 PM
Wide body,

I had AWB hydraulics on the first cub, now Aero. Aero are lighter, less $ and fly well.

For work? well, a little of a pain, but not that bad compared to the weight and cost of the hydraulics...

If I were ordering a set, (assuming use in deep or wet snow), I would ask for the plastic to be wider than the ski, and fill all the back possible. Then I would build the plates mentioned before just because!

Let us know what you do, I might modify mine soon...

Ursa Major
12-25-2008, 10:34 PM
Wide body,

I had AWB hydraulics on the first cub, now Aero. Aero are lighter, less $ and fly well.

For work? well, a little of a pain, but not that bad compared to the weight and cost of the hydraulics...

If I were ordering a set, (assuming use in deep or wet snow), I would ask for the plastic to be wider than the ski, and fill all the back possible. Then I would build the plates mentioned before just because!

Let us know what you do, I might modify mine soon...

Any chance one of you guys could post some photos of the Aero R2800s? I'm not sure I have ever seen a set. I sold my Airglas L3000s when I left Alaska. Straight skis worked well up there. Now that I can keep the cub in a hangar, I could sure use some decent wheel skis here in N. Idaho. It just keeps snowing, and snowing and.....

aktango58
12-25-2008, 11:03 PM
There are a couple of threads on skis that mention Aero 2800's directly. Do a search and there are pics...

There is also a photo or two of some with the tail wheel put on top of the ski. I can not find the thread this was in, but somewhere on gallerys...

arcticflyr
12-25-2008, 11:31 PM
I have a set of LW-2500's I bought used at a good price to try them out, I'm very happy with them. I had concerns I thought the same thing that MTV spoke of. After some research the things that fowled landees wheel skis in the past are gone on these. First they are not fiber-glass, they are injected plastic, very strong. The UHMW bottoms are not bolted over the top of the normal bottom. The UHMW is the bottom and is bonded to the plastic shell that makes the ski. The spring steel to the tail wheel is gone also, it now is a little "shopping cart" wheel molding in the tail of the ski. I think there was some mention of them being very heavy, not sure but I think the LW stands for light weight, I don't know what mine weigh but I do know I can pick up the ski with the gear leg attached and put it in the truck while talking with someone so there are very light. The main's must be kept aired up, if left to leak down they squish out and rub on the ski. They are a bit twitchy on hard surfaces not ground loop just side to side as the fore and aft wheels try to track anything they can. They do require 3" gear and need some tabs welded on, best to take them to airglass for it, there are specs for in the paper work. The 3" is only for the borer prop. Anyway I like mine they do not perform like straight skis, none will. They do perform better than I thought they would.

M1
12-26-2008, 02:54 AM
I have a set of LW-2500's on my cub, and so far they have performed well. Just as everyone says, the best is with powder snow. I've used them on crust, the kind where the tire will break through now and then, still no real problem. Wet snow is just plain sticky, so you can expect longer takeoffs, but they still performed ok in wet conditions,

Mike

JMBreitinger
12-26-2008, 06:50 AM
I have the LW 2500s on my 150 HP Cub and like them a lot. I am still learning what they will do. Every day is a learning experience. Some days, every landing is a learning experience. The workmanship is great. I bought them new two years ago. About $6,000 installed.

RedEye
12-26-2008, 10:13 AM
Will we ever see or is anyone working on a set of wheel-skis or wheel penetration skis for use with Bushwheels ? All the penetration skis that I've seen create so much drag with the small tire. The bushwheel would seem to be much better at reducing drag at the penetration location.

mvivion
12-26-2008, 10:25 AM
David,

Frankly, I think a bigger tire sticking through the penetration in a ski would make things worse, not better.

My AWB 2500 skis, with 8.50 tires really need longer rigger arms for that size tire. It's amazing how much drag a tire just barely sticking down through the ski bottom creates.

Our old aircraft division modified several sets of AWB 2500 hydraulic skis to fit them to Super Cubs equipped with Goodyear 25 inch Airwheels. Those skis worked okay, because the rigger arms were long enough to pretty much get the tire out of the snow when in skis position.

Frankly, if you're going to penetration skis, I think the manufacturers have already answered your question: Use the smallest tires you can, cause the bigger the tires, the more drag in the snow.

MTV

superchamp
12-26-2008, 10:41 AM
David just wants that cool big tire look! David, I assume the BW's are in the hanger and the skis are on? You could use floats on Vermilion for all the slush on it.

RedEye
12-26-2008, 01:39 PM
My thought is that if you have an inch and a half sticking through the ski, the larger the diameter the less drag there would be. Imagine a 31"er in packed snow vs. an 8.50. No comparison right. Now do the same with it penetrating the ski. Less drag...no ???

Russ,

Skis are on. Been to Red Lake a few times. No slush up there, but plenty of drifts, though not too terribly bad.

Widebody
12-26-2008, 01:48 PM
Got a call into Landes, I was leaning that way at the start.
Both sets sound good and I appreciate all the reports.
The hard rough snow from cold temps and wind we get
in ND seem to favor Landes, more surface area and longer
in length will also help them perform better in deep snow.
Tough to beat Aero's, when you can have just the ski in the
snow though.

Thanks
Brad

Matt 7GCBC
12-26-2008, 02:26 PM
As MTV said, it is amazing how much drag just a small area of tire penetratring through the ski can create. Knowing the difference in performance on my Aeroskis with the skis up or down, I would hesitate to go with a wheel penetration ski if there is an option for retracts. Just getting the rear ski wheels out of the snow more and putting the rear ski axle on top of the ski on my aeroskis increased performance immensely. Look at the photos in my gallery to see what I'm talking about. I told Troy? at Aeroski about this and he mentioned looking into this, but haven't talked to him since - very good people to deal with. Have also talked to the folks at Landes regarding the LH4000s and they were equally pleasant. I would be happy to answer any questions on the R2800s that I can. Just mounting them up today. Merry Christmas.
P.S. Ursa, feel free to stop down to the lower part of the state to check them out.

Dave Calkins
12-26-2008, 02:51 PM
I've waited to comment. There was a time early in the life of this website when I was a real 'thread hog'.

A couple of points:

The Landes LW2500 is a hand-layed fiberglass-cloth/vinylester-resin composite. It is relatively easy to repair to like new appearance compared to repairing a welded-aluminum structure like the Aero R-2800 to new appearance.

Individual skis of both brand of ski seem quite light when picking them up and moving them around by hand. One mention of 57 pounds per ski for the Aero must absolutely be a typographical error or those skis are filled with sand. The Aero R-2800 is a light ski, just like their straight skis.

Both brands of ski will require welding attach points to the gear legs, and both will benefit from 3" extended gear.

Landes runs 8.00x6 tires, the Aero's are for 6.00x6 tires.

I've got alot more to say about both of these skis. I have been around both brands. I'll let this digest for awhile.

PS some guys here like to run a tundra tire on their AWB skis. It has been said that if you're gonna wreck your airplane, it will be on floats. It has said if you're gonna wreck you airplane, it will be in the winter on skis.

Lots of Cubs get wrecked on wheels, but it has been said that if you're gonna wreck your skis, it's gonna be doing wheel ops on rough stuff with the tundra tires down with wheels skis installed.

Widebody
12-26-2008, 03:07 PM
.
I've got alot more to say about both of these skis. I have been around both brands. I'll let this digest for awhile.


OK it's been long enough....Let's hear the rest :D

And...Which ones would you buy?

Brad

Dave Calkins
12-26-2008, 03:56 PM
Hi Brad, write the check yet? :D

My experience with the Aero R-2800's is limited to installing, flying, and modifying a set of them on an A-1B for an owner who is very persnickity, and seeing them around and talking to owners who have modified them.

My experience with the Landes LW-2500 (Landes Wheel- 2500lb.-load rating per ski) is owning, flying, and modifying them on a PA-14 150 HP, and flying them on Gary Landes's personal 150HP PA-12.

Compared to Fli-Lites, AirGlides, or AWB's, the Aero's and Landes light. Both require welding to the gear legs and will benefit from 3" extended gear as I said before. Both have a little tailwheel on the ski that WILL throw gravel at the tail and aft fuselage of the airplane. I have dealt with both manufacturers, and both are EASY to talk to and can be taken at their word.

The attach points for the Husky gear legs with the Aero's and the arm geometry do not allow the tire to be raised completely out of the snow, leaving about an inch, and the tiny 6.00x6 tire are tiny! and throw lots of gravel and don't float well on soft ground like a grass strip in the spring...at least you have the skis to sink-up to.

The newer Landes ski-tailwheels are far superior to the old Maule ski-tailwheel and leaf spring-style deal. Weight is saved, and drag is reduced. I wouldn't even consider flying the old style.

Either of these skis will not perform well in slush, mashed potatoes, crusty snow, or slightly packed snow where the tire is able to break through the surface and the forward portion of the tire is big drag.

Fluffy deep snow, uphill landings and downhill takeoff the Landes are great skis.

Let me get down to it. If the Aero's on the Husky could get the tire completely out of the snow, I still wouldn't have them on that airplane. It's a heavy airplane, and the place where the Landes shine (deep fluffy snow), the Aero's 'tip-up' and plow. The forward-rear areas are all wrong, and the Aero needs more tail area to keep them from tipping up. I am not the first to voice this theory. A well-know skier-mountaneer-jet captain-mechanic-Cub owner with more back-country/mountain-pilot experiences and who has covered more ground than me and likely everyone else here, who operates a Cub on Aero R2800's has mentioned this and tried several ways to deal with it by adding more UHMW here, there, removing it here, there, trying bigger tires, back to 6x6's, mounting the tailwheel bracket on top of the ski instead of dragging it in the snow like the stock Aero, etc. agrees with this. He happens to for several years performed the maintenance on the most famous of Cub-driver's airplanes and played much in that pilots neck of the Alaskan Wrangell/Saint Elias wilderness with Aero R2800 skis while the other guy is on straight Landes's.

The great equalizer in the mountains is the uphill landing and downhill takeoff.

I simply cannot have a ski that will tip-up in the DDddeeeeeepp snow like those Aero's. This is where Landes's work great. This, plus the toughness of the glass ski makes my decision

Now, what if there was a relatively inexpensive retractable wheel/ski that could run 8.50x6 tires and had all the right proportions, no ski-tailwheel, and was 30% lighter per ski than, say Landes 2500 straight skis? NO compromises? That is what a guy needs.

DAVE

akwing
12-26-2008, 05:27 PM
If a set of wheel-penetration skis cost 6,000 dollars, it would almost be worth it to have a little patience and spend an extra $ 1500 - 2000 and buy a good used hydraulic ski. Hydraulic skis are better than the penetration skis and whats another $2000 when your already spending $6000?

aktango58
12-26-2008, 05:29 PM
I've waited to comment. There was a time early in the life of this website when I was a real 'thread hog'.

A couple of points:

The Landes LW2500 is a hand-layed fiberglass-cloth/vinylester-resin composite. It is relatively easy to repair to like new appearance compared to repairing a welded-aluminum structure like the Aero R-2800 to new appearance.

Individual skis of both brand of ski seem quite light when picking them up and moving them around by hand. One mention of 57 pounds per ski for the Aero must absolutely be a typographical error or those skis are filled with sand. The Aero R-2800 is a light ski, just like their straight skis.

Both brands of ski will require welding attach points to the gear legs, and both will benefit from 3" extended gear.

PS some guys here like to run a tundra tire on their AWB skis. It has been said that if you're gonna wreck your airplane, it will be on floats. It has said if you're gonna wreck you airplane, it will be in the winter on skis.

Lots of Cubs get wrecked on wheels, but it has been said that if you're gonna wreck your skis, it's gonna be doing wheel ops on rough stuff with the tundra tires down with wheels skis installed.


Dave,

While your first statement may be true I need to state a point or two:

I hate fiberglass work. It would rather build an entire new ski from aluminum... personal issue there...

Weights... Aero skis 104 lbs by official wt/bal... fittings, axles, release...EVERY THING!

Weld attach points... WRONG... Aero Ski offers a bolt on attach option that you drill one hole through the back of the gear behind the axle, run the bottom cabane vee bolt and the new bolt through for the inside, then the outside is supported by a piece that goes inside the axle. No welding needed.

Wrecking? it is bad no matter what you do, but some truth to the rough stuff with skis still on... :oops:

About the Husky rig, Are you sure that the 'new' style does not allow the tire above the ski????

Again, with a plate built for under the tire, (not an option on landes) the Aeros would be much like the strait 3000's.

I can not argue the deep snow performance dave talks about, but I also am not trying to work my cub in thoes conditions. The deepest I have had these in was about three feet of fluff. I need to leave a paved strip with no snow, and be able to land up river on snow, often times the snow is wet.

There is a hassle factor on any wheel ski. The great thing is we have options!

Dave, thank you for your info. I did not find the same problems on cruchy snow, but my tires are above the ski. maybe I am just not flying into enough tough conditions any more...

There are days to have strait skis though!

Scouter
12-26-2008, 07:37 PM
I tracked down the gent with the used set of R2800s here in Maine. They are 2 seasons old, used little. Champ gear, so to use on a cub they would need rigging kit from Aero, not sure of the cost. He wants $5K for the pair. email me at jcrane@hughes.net and I can put you in touch with him.
Dave: I am going to weigh one of my Aeros tomorrow, I think they weigh over 50 lbs/ski, seems like 57 sticks in my mind. Ive not flown them in severe deep fluff, what you describe with the nose tipping up is interesting.

Jim

mvivion
12-26-2008, 07:39 PM
Good points all, Dave. I've had to go fish several folks out of deep snow who were flying the Aero 2800's. I suspect that the different mounting on the new Aero's would fix the wheel sticking down through the ski thing...It sure does on a set on a Cub and a Scout I've seen lately. I can't see where the Husky would be any different. What you describe sounds like the old mounting bracket setup.

But, if you REALLY want a set of skis, get a set of Thomas Dietrich's Rosti Fernandez retractable wheel skis. They are expensive, but they'll out perform ANY ski, straight or otherwise, on the planet.

Not cheap though, so spend a little less on that new instrument panel, and forgo the autopilot on the Cub..... :angel:

MTV

aktango58
12-26-2008, 07:50 PM
I went from a champ to cub with my skis, I think it cost $350 for the fittings and made the cables myself. Aero sent me the dimentions to the cable...

MTV, are thoes great skis certified for us to use? are you using them?

if so, where are you parked, they would be cheaper that way! :lol:

GeorgeMandes
12-26-2008, 08:00 PM
But, if you REALLY want a set of skis, get a set of Thomas Dietrich's Rosti Fernandez retractable wheel skis. They are expensive, but they'll out perform ANY ski, straight or otherwise, on the planet.


Our set is currently AOG, as well as two other sets on a Cub and a Husky in ANC. While I am optimistic we will work through the problems all three of us have experienced, the jury is still out on these skis for us.

aktango58
12-26-2008, 08:43 PM
George- Why AOG?

Certification approval, or broken?

GeorgeMandes
12-26-2008, 08:45 PM
broken

aktango58
12-26-2008, 08:52 PM
Do you want to elaborate:

beginner pilot, bad luck, bad design? Wear? idiot neighbor ran into them with snowplow?

mvivion
12-26-2008, 09:27 PM
Yes, George, how about an explanation of the troubles. I worked a set of those skis pretty hard for several hundred hours, with no problems whatsoever, so I'd be curious to hear what sort of problems you've encountered.

MTV

GeorgeMandes
12-26-2008, 09:29 PM
We installed our skis last year and ran them about 50 hours. We were pleased with the performance. They were on our Husky and displayed at the AK Airmen's show last May. Our friends, Hans and Peter, got them for their Cub and Husky and installed them this year. About $20k a set, because of the exchange rate, plus installation. Three different installers -- all who have installed many sets of skis.

Peter and Hans broke rod ends almost immediately after installation. We then pulled ours, and on ours, one rod end was bent. We grounded our plane, and have been waiting for a shipment from Europe since early December, but still no parts. There has been discussion back and forth, and we believe that there needs to be a re-design to strengthen that area. There are also rigging issues that would frustrate someone interested in a professional installation.

We are optimistic that there will be a re-design and the installation issues resolved. Until then, we can not recommend these skis.

Dave Calkins
12-26-2008, 09:55 PM
Aktango, on the Husky there is no bolt-on option on their ski-gear.

Mike, I know the new arm and attach points and the Husky set-up mimics the old style. In order to use the new arm, one needs to re-desing Aviat's inboard-welded-on fitting for their Aero-gear leg.

George M., Those are beautiful skis! They are the answer.

I cannot be certain, as I have not laid eyes on Peter and Hans' broken Heim joints (rod-ends), but I saw both installations, and it appears to me that in the wheel-retracted position, the tire is being 'scrunched' pretty hard against that beautiful molded-graphite retract arm, even at rest on the skis. It is a function of the fittings being attached in front of the wheel axle and the clearance between tire and retract arm decreasing as the tire retracts. Any more pressure down onto the ski with the weight of the airplane in, say, landing mode, will certainly exacerbate the issue, and the Heim joint is the weak element receiving the brunt of that load. Thomas will figure it out, he's done a great job producing those beauties. Still, a shame to have your Aircraft On the Ground.

mvivion
12-26-2008, 10:04 PM
George,

Thanks for clarifying. I'm struggling to visualize the failure point, even with Dave's further description.

Has Thomas redesigned the attach gear recently? I know he has lightened them up a little since we bought ours. We sure didn't have any problems with installation, nor did we have any sort of failure, and there are a lot of these skis floating around the Alps as well. The attach gear and hydraulics made our FAA guy crazy, but they work, so....

I hope Thomas gets things figured out, soon. They are beautiful skis, and the performance is impressive.

Sorry to hear of your troubles with them.

Dave, you can order "ski landing gear" from Aviat for the Husky, which is set up for the Aero 2800 skis (or the RF 8001's). Are you saying that that gear isn't compatible with the newer Aero rigging? All this visualization has my head about to explode...

MTV

Ursa Major
12-26-2008, 10:26 PM
As MTV said, it is amazing how much drag just a small area of tire penetratring through the ski can create. Knowing the difference in performance on my Aeroskis with the skis up or down, I would hesitate to go with a wheel penetration ski if there is an option for retracts. Just getting the rear ski wheels out of the snow more and putting the rear ski axle on top of the ski on my aeroskis increased performance immensely. Look at the photos in my gallery to see what I'm talking about. .

Matt,

Your pics answered a lot of my questions

Thanks

aktango58
12-26-2008, 10:38 PM
George,

any chance you could post a pic or three of these skis?

I am a year or two from having 20K, but would like to see what you are talking about.


Dave, I did not know about the no bolt on for husky, (another reason for a cub I say :lol: ). I do believe that the husky weld on fitting does offer the attach hole below the axle, which puts the ski below the tire, allowing the better performance. But I should call to confirm...

I want to thank you guys for sharing your experience here. We all can learn from this type of input!

Widebody
12-26-2008, 10:53 PM
Thanks Dave, no check yet, waiting for a call.

I'm not a novice with skis and know what I need for my
conditions/purpose. That's why I'm going with Landes,
along with the reports, it's confirmed my decision.

You cannot beat straights for performance and I have a
set of Aero 3000's when I need them and yes they are great guys.

Time to try something new I guess.

Thanks to all,
Brad

GeorgeMandes
12-26-2008, 11:12 PM
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_0057Small.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_0015cSmall.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IMG_0053Small.jpg

Dave Calkins
12-27-2008, 01:15 AM
a photo of the graphite retract arm on the new RF ski. Gorgeous! The 'offending' rod-ends are visible.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/IMG_4237.JPG

Also, a photo of the A-1B Aero R2800 install. On the Aviat "Aero" ski gear (manufactured by Aviat), there is no room for a bolt on saddle for the inboard fitting tabs. The tabs are welded on. Note the outboard tabs are mounted in front of the wheel axle. On these skis, wider plastic has been installed, and the aft section of the 'forktail' has been closed over with the wide plastic. The front edge of the aft side of the tire cut-out has been formed up to not dig snow. The outer edges of the plastic have been bent in a sheet metal brake to avert catching the plastic if a side-slide occurs. Next is to remove some of the wider plastic area near the nose of the ski to help with the fore/aft area 'problem', and then install the tailwheel mount on top of the ski instead of the bottom, as has been mentioned. I've talked to several guys who have been modifying the R2800's to get them 'right'. No one has claimed victory yet, but I'm sure it's there. These are a simple and light "proper" wheel ski that just needs a bit of 'optimizing'.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/IMG_4592.JPG

iceboat33
12-28-2008, 01:19 PM
I am restoring an Aviat Husky A1 that had a vist from a tornado and it's going to be a float and ski plane when it flies. George I notice that the pictures of your Husky with the wheel skies have different gear than mine. You appear to have bungees in the airstream like the supercub. Husky bungees are a royal pain in the ass. So I'm curious is this a "c " model mod that I haven't noticed yet or somebody else's? This is a little bit off topic but threads do get to wandering around.

Gabe

I noticed that you do not have spades on the ailerons so you must have a C model.

GeorgeMandes
12-28-2008, 01:28 PM
It is an A1B converted to extended Cub gear and the Alpha Omega system through STC.

Dave Calkins
12-29-2008, 12:22 AM
George, let me whisper in your ear.

You said extended Cub gear. 3"?

I'm thinking 35's or at least 31's on that 3" gear.

I've always wondered/dreamed what a Husky would do with "better" 3-point AOA.

aktango58
12-29-2008, 02:24 AM
Does someone have a set of 35's to sell? 8)

GeorgeMandes
12-29-2008, 09:29 AM
We fly a Husky on extended gear with AO and another Husky without, both on 31's, and much prefer the Cub extended gear for off airport operations. (It is slower in cruise by about 5 knots.) We tried 35's and didn't like how they felt on our AO equipped Husky -- really hurt the climb rate, added 40 pounds, and took away the snappy Husky feel on a sea level takeoff (making it feel like you were in Idaho).

mvivion
12-29-2008, 09:41 AM
Iceboat,

Aviat Husky model A-1B after 2005 had the "new wing", with extended flaps, deeper chord ailerons, and no aerodynamic counterbalances. The "C" model Husky came out a bit later. Point is, some B model airplanes have no aerodynamic counterbalances, and none of the C's do.

MTV

Hyrdflyr
12-29-2008, 03:12 PM
check your pms

Hyrdflyr

Wayne Mackey
12-29-2008, 10:25 PM
Would someone post the phone number for the aero ski outfit. Thanks
Wayne

irishfield
12-29-2008, 10:31 PM
320-346-2285

GeorgeMandes
01-06-2009, 10:36 PM
RF ski update. Parts received from Europe. More bent rod ends found on a Cub, after previously replacing bent rod ends.

Right now, we are stuck at step one of the recognized ten step process for solving these sort of problems.

aktango58
01-07-2009, 09:48 AM
George,

I have never seen these skis in life, nor have I watched them work... but I thought of this looking at the pics you sent:

First: are you or anyone putting skis down while on the ground, thereby stressing the little hydraulic ram? (it may say it can do it, but that ram is little).

Second: the connection between the ram and the black mount has a slide slot cut in it... my guess is it needs that for an 'over cam' situation. If so I would take a guess that you might have a couple of issues happening- the slot if warm will build ice inside, restricting movement, (pull out of hanger, fly in warm weather, low alt warm to glacier landing) or flying in overflow you can build ice inside; the other would be building snow/ice under or around the ram so it's movement is restricted.

Third: the slit/bolt set up if not connected with a really good bearing surface will tend to bind, even if you think you have grease (grease collects water-see above) If it were my set up I would want some sort of UHMW bushing that would be slippery no matter what, and change it out every 100 hours... That slot is very small for the conditions you are asking it to work in...

Again, I am just looking and thinking about some of the machine issues I have had with hydraulics over stressing the equipment around it, or destroying itself.

One quick check is to see if the slot is bearing surface smooth and flat or has gouges or bumps. If not smooth and flat that would indicate a problem

Good luck, and keep us informed.

Dave Calkins
01-07-2009, 01:24 PM
AkTango. The slot is not failing.

The rod-ends are failing. :D

aktango58
01-07-2009, 10:14 PM
Ok, looked again...

Are the rod ends torquing up and down?

These look just like the ones we use on sleds for steering... POS!

My bet you could go to the sled shop and get new ones today....

But,

It is a weak link, do they need to have a complete swivel? I would think that it only needs to rotate around the fittings, making the whole rod end idea obsolete...

But if you must use them, build a block to thread the rod end through and contacts tightly to both the arm and around the circular part of the rod end. Doing adjustments suck, (bench grinder) but it supports the ends.

a 1/2" or even 9/16" bolt was not made to take a 2,000 lb plane laying on the end with 2-3" arm out!

I would build a torque block with a bushing that bolts to the arm...

I can build you some this week if you send size.

Dave Calkins
01-07-2009, 11:37 PM
Aktango, the molded carbon fiber retract arms on those skis are a thing of intense beauty. It's not likely that George or these other guys will bolt up an Alaskan-rigged solution to their very nice and expensive skis, unless it is condoned by the ski manufacturer.

The rod-ends are an Airbus part, so they oughtta have some QC in place and the system should be designed so they are able to take the loads.

My guess at the failure mode is this: When the wheel retracts, the tire is being pressed against the retract arm, actually it is being squeezed, HARD. This is a fact from my observation of the skis in operation. I can imagine that the force of the tire pressure, which in the geometry of this system INCREASES when you land and put weight on the skis..............the force of the tire is caused by the retract arm and is 90 degrees to the rod-end shank. I can see this force breaking the rod-ends. I can see this as the cause. However, I did not inspect the broken rod-ends, and don't know the actual failure "direction". I am not involved in installing or rigging these skis, but was present at various stages of the installation on an A-1B.

Maybe George M. will let us in on the direction of rod-end failure. Bummer for sure, as good ski-flying is to be had if the temp's here raise another 10 or 20 or 30 degrees F.

DAVE

GeorgeMandes
01-08-2009, 07:59 AM
We have three different maintenance guys working on this, and bent rod ends on each of the three planes with the skis, including repeated failures on the same plane. This is with just a few hours, flown light, and in very benign snow conditions. There is no one thing we can identify as causing the problem -- basically the rigging right now isn't strong enough to stand-up to long term use.

The skis are absolutely beautiful, have fantastic wheel clearance, are lightweight, and as Mike V reported previously, perform great. That said, the rigging is more like what you would expect on an experimental, and since a product is only as good as its weakest part, we need to get support from the manufacturer to redesign the rigging. That is what I was referring to as hung up at step one in the ten step process -- and step one is admit we have a problem. If we can resolve this, and we certainly want to, this will be a fantastic ski that will be very successful in Alaska.

aktango58
01-08-2009, 09:34 AM
Dave,

I will bet that the rod ends, airbus or Polaris, are made the same, with same QC. Bottom line is that they were never designed to hold 1,000 each 90 degrees in shear, then have them sticking out for a lever to bend!


As far as an "Alaskan-rigged solution", seems most of the planes people on this site own have thoes: removable seat bar, extended baggage, HD gear, Extended Gear, boer prop....

But because I suspect that you are referring to a cut to shape, beat to size, shim to fit.... check out my photo album and see my project I just finished- a tool specifically made for producing some parts I need!

George,

If you have one good rod end, mount it in a steel block and do a pull/push test in a press and see just how much pressure the thing will hold in truth :oops:

my bet if you tied a Husky down with the plane's weight in shear on these' they would bend in a wind storm...

But I am far away and taking wild guesses.

Keep us informed!

mvivion
01-08-2009, 09:37 AM
George,

Sorry, but there is nothing wrong with the SKI rigging that I ever saw. As I noted earlier, I put a lot of hours on a set of these skis in northern Alaska, and in VERY deep snow at times. We also had the airplane on McKinley with the skis. Those skis have been beat around a good bit, and they have not had problems with them at all. They work.

Furthermore, there are a number of sets of these skis flying regularly, for several years, in Europe, on Huskys, Super Cubs and other aircraft.

When we put the skis on our Husky, we changed to the Aviat "ski landing gear", which was designed for the Aero 2800 skis. That's what Thomas is using in Europe as well. Have you considered that the reason you folks are experiencing failures is the attach hardware you're using?

It seems the only failures on these skis noted to date is where they are being mounted to aircraft with ATTACH fittings made and installed locally in your part of the world. What you have described SOUNDS like an alignment problem to me. That is, alignment of the attach points, not the ski actuators.

But, I may be waaaayyyy off. It's hard to visualize these mechanisms remotely.

In any case, I can tell you that while the attach mechanism on those skis does LOOK a little light, it can and will take a beating. I've turned those things around in very deep snow really tight, and nary a whimper.

I hope you get this figured out soon. Good luck.

MTV

aktango58
01-08-2009, 10:06 AM
All good points Mike,

Did your skis use the same rod ends? If so, I want some for my sled's steering!

I would bet with all of us where the planes are, and three cases of beer, a bunch of stakes on the Barby we could get this sorted out after the third beer run! :wink:

Dave Calkins
01-08-2009, 12:08 PM
Tango, I meant no intent against your jury-rigging skills :D

What I meant is that we are talking about a very expensive European-manufactured product, the designer of which is unlikely to 'approve' what the best engineers on the West coast or "North coast" of america (lower-case 'A' for european-snobbery-effect) are able to conjure. Notice that George M. said that first we have to admit there is a problem? I'm sure the manufacturer is as bummed as George that all is not in gleaming perfection. I hope this is quickly resolved.

Mike V., were you guys running the carbon-fiber arms?

aktango58
01-08-2009, 12:56 PM
No offence taken Dave! :drinking:


usually I defer to the guys that really know what is going on in my plane. But when it comes to hydraulics and linkage breaking, I take great glee in finding the trouble, call it a mental defect! :P

If the units are the same as Mike used, I would guess that alignment is the problem. If ANYTHING has changed.... you know the drill.

I do have a hard time believing that those little rod ends hold a plane!

Another thought- could the tires have a different depth of tread causing more pressure?

well, off to the shop now, have more parts to build.... Need anyting? :lol:

mvivion
01-08-2009, 04:22 PM
Dave,

Yes, same arms, same rigging. Different gear.

MTV

aktango58
01-08-2009, 06:33 PM
Don't they make cub gear with the tabs welded on for Aero skis?

Dave Calkins
01-08-2009, 10:16 PM
I was wrong about the failure mode having anything to do with the squishing of the tire.

Apparently the failure is occurring as the a/c is being raised from wheel to ski. At that point the weight of the a/c is supported on the shank of the rod-end at about a 90 degree angle and the rod-ends aren't up to it. One of the failures occurred in the hangar during a retract test. Yikes!

Mike, one of these sets is on an A-1B with an "Aero-gear" as manufactured by F.Atlee Dodge. I'd be surprised if Atlee's screwed up all the bracket/tab/stub fabrication. Mystery's!

DAVE

Crash
01-08-2009, 10:46 PM
Landis Airglass was sold a few months back to the "son" of Northrim Bank.

I've talked to the new owner and he is moving forward as fast as he can with an LW-3000 version (for Cubs and Huskys) of their Cessna 180/185 LW-4000.

Hands down, the LW-4000 is THE ski to have on a C180/185 or Found Bush Hawk.

In the future I feel the LW-3000 will do the same thing to the Cub/Husky ski market.

Talk is of the ram being electric, so no hydraulic pump and plumbing.... wouldn't that be nice.

Crash

irishfield
01-08-2009, 11:01 PM
I was wrong about the failure mode having anything to do with the squishing of the tire.

Apparently the failure is occurring as the a/c is being raised from wheel to ski. At that point the weight of the a/c is supported on the shank of the rod-end at about a 90 degree angle and the rod-ends aren't up to it. One of the failures occurred in the hangar during a retract test. Yikes!

Mike, one of these sets is on an A-1B with an "Aero-gear" as manufactured by F.Atlee Dodge. I'd be surprised if Atlee's screwed up all the bracket/tab/stub fabrication. Mystery's!

DAVE

This would suggest to me that the skis where designed to be re-postioned in flight only !! ??

Dave Calkins
01-08-2009, 11:07 PM
This would suggest to me that the skis where designed to be re-postioned in flight only !! ??

Apparently these same a/c have not had failures when retracting/extending in the air only. D

irishfield
01-08-2009, 11:25 PM
Have a bad feeling that's the intent. So many figure the guy wants to leave pavement.. go play in the snow and come back to pavement.

Not the real world of wanting to roll out of the hangar to snow... reposition.. up over the snow bank and go play. Come back.. slide over the snow bank and reposition wheels down.

I don't think you're supposed to repositon AWB's on the ground either are you?

GeorgeMandes
01-09-2009, 08:38 AM
Dave, we only cycled our skis in the air, and ended up with a bent rod end.

Mike, Atlee Dodge welded the tabs on one Cub and the Husky, and our installer did our tabs on Cub/AO gear. He is the same person that did STC one of the AO gear on the Husky, and absolutely knows what he is doing. Out of curiosity, did you ever pull your rod ends and check them to see if they were bent? Are those skis still flying? Are you aware of any other sets of those skis flying in Alaska that would represent another data point on durability?

We love the skis and hope to resolve this soon. We are working with the manufacturer on a fix.

Crash, compared to the LH-4000 skis, these have MUCH more ground clearance when taxiing -- important on rough gravel strips.

mvivion
01-09-2009, 09:24 AM
George,

I'll call my previous cohorts in crime fighting who are still flying the skis today. We did inspect the rod ends pretty closely, at re-installation time, and of course, at least "casually" during preflights. This airplane lived in a heated, well lighted hangar, so pre-flights were pretty thorough.

I never cycled the skis on the ground. Never needed to, and I've always felt that doing so on ANY set of skis imparts a lot of stress, so generally avoid it, approved or not.

There is another set of these skis operating on a Cessna 180 in the ANC or MatSu area. This set was field approved on an airplane owned by a FSDO inspector, but I don't know his name. If there were ever a test for those skis, the much heavier 180 would offer it, so I'd try to track that airplane down. I vaguely recall someone saying that airplane was either for sale or had been sold recently.

I'd check with the ANC FSDO, and see if they know who that Inspector is. As I said, I don't know who that was, so have no idea if they had any problems or if they ever actually used the skis....

Thomas can give you the name of the fellow who did the certification tests in the US on the Husky. He's in Wisconson, and I'm told has a set of the skis on his airplane now. I'm guessing he used the Aviat ski gear as well.

This is a real bummer. These are such great skis, I really hope there isn't some sort of unresolvable problem here.

Crash, its good to hear that Landes is in the hands of someone who cares about skis. I was really afraid that the company would go to some big outfit that just wanted the military contracts, and would tube the GA stuff.

No doubt, Landes makes great stuff. I hope they get the Cub ski going.

MTV

Snowbirdxx
01-09-2009, 12:40 PM
Hi, for those of you, who do not know me, I am Thomas and I designed the RF8001 Skis.

We have been producing these skis since 1994. Never had a problem with the rodends. After hearing about the problem, we could identify, that all the rods in question were form the same batch. My guess was, maybe a soft batch, but the rod end manufacturer looked at the rodends in Question and said" everything normal ".

I then hat to analize why the rods fail or bend, when the aircraft is just pumped once or twice on the ground. With the statement of the manufacturer to have" ok Rodends", we had to look for another reason.
I successfully could damage a rodend by pulling the skis way to high when hooking up the bungees.

But some after market Brackets did not have the stop, that is needed to restrict the travel of the rodend, and these gears still had failures.

I still was sure to have a batch of soft rodends.
We had to build a test rig to test the rodend ourselves. The batch in question met the specs of the manufacturer, but other batches were 30% and more stronger that the specs called out.

To have the airplanes flying again, we shipped from the stronger batch ends out. In the meantime a solution got developed that cold be retrofit on the existing carbon yolkes.

These tests were finished on Jan 9th with the questioned batch of rodends. Even with these rodends the required forces could be now far exceeded.. Lifting of a 2700 lbs load creates no problem. On a single rodend. Beforethe mod, bending happened at around 800 lbs.

Parts for this mod will be shipped Jan 14th. Installation of the mod takes 12 minutes.
Cycling a Turbine Bird Dog ( SM1019A) fully tanked at 3700 lbs for 100 cycles showed no bends at all.

We will supply all our customers with a free set of parts , regardless how old the skis are.

I am sure that this problem is solved now and for the future.


TomD :D

NimpoCub
01-09-2009, 01:21 PM
Wow.
Now that's customer service/care.

Good on you, TomD, I'm sure your biz will thrive (IF you survive this rod replacement) :)

Good to see some caring in biz.

Crash
01-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Crash, compared to the LH-4000 skis, these have MUCH more ground clearance when taxiing -- important on rough gravel strips.

George, where are you landing on rough gravel strips in the dead of winter?

I log 100+ hours each year, flying the Iditarod using a set of LH-4000's. We land on all kinds of terrain during the race including gravel strips. I've yet to replace the ski tail wear strips. I don't see it as an issue unless you're landing on real rough gravel and most of that is buried under snow or should be....

Take care.

Crash

aktango58
01-09-2009, 05:36 PM
snowbirdxx :up

My hat is off to you!

I commend you on your efforts figuring out the problem!

cheers :wink:

Randyk
01-09-2009, 06:25 PM
Crash - - the issue on gravel is the ski tailwheel throws rocks into the tail feathers. If you're not having that problem, I dunno.

RK

Crash
01-09-2009, 07:06 PM
Not really having tail feather problems from the skis throwing rocks. I guess we're operating in different areas of the state. From Willow to the Yukon you can operate pretty well with just straight skis.

The coast (Unalakleet and up) is another story. I would guess about 80% of the ops are done on gravel strips with 1 1/2" and under rocks. They (LH-4000's) make a lot of noise but after the end of the season I'm always surprised when I take the skis off that there is very little damage to the tails.

I go skis to wheels, wheels to skis all day long on the ground, no problem! Even go one wheel down, one wheel up to turn around on the ground. I usually never even get out when I blow it and end up off the runway, out in the bushes. Just drop a wheel, roll the trim forward and put the pedal to the metal....

Take care.

Crash

GeorgeMandes
01-09-2009, 08:55 PM
We have LH-4000 skis on our 185, and Landes wheel penetration skis on a Husky. Fine products from a fine company. We hope they get their LH-3000 completed for the Cub/Husky soon as more choices is a good thing.

When you taxi on the RF skis, there is so much ground clearance that you would never know you are on skis. On both types of Landes skis, we clatter around, even on pavement. I can't imagine that anyone designing skis on a "clean sheet of paper" would prefer the ground clearance of the Landes skis over the RF?

mvivion
01-10-2009, 11:09 AM
George,

Tried to get in touch with my former cohorts yesterday. No luck. Cold in FAI, and I'm guessing they're all kegged up at home.

I'll keep trying to get in touch.

MTV

Snowbirdxx
01-10-2009, 01:29 PM
George,

if gravel pickup is an issue with RF skis, there is a simple solution to it.
A rubber guard can be mounted just behind the wheel opening. It is a rubber as used on engine bafflings.

I have such a rubber integrated in my mudguards/ wheel pants for the Rfs.

This rubber extends downwards to the ground. On gravel it will get used and needs replacement from time to time.

On snow it will fold back from the friction. Weight increase on both skis less than 1 lb.

TomD

G44
01-21-2014, 01:04 AM
Sooooo are the rod end on the RF 8001 problems fixed? Has any one operated both the RF 8001 and the Landes LH 3000's? Care to comment?

C-FIJK
01-21-2014, 01:24 PM
With all this ski talk no one has said anything on trick air skis , I was looking at a set as I now have a aviat husky and it seems trick air is the way to go , but inside brackets need to be welded on , Is any one flying trick air skis

Gerry

beaver18
01-21-2014, 06:27 PM
I have a set, of 2250 and i love them i flew some model on my plane ( strait and Flilite 3000 ) and you can bet i will not go back there,fairly lite at 42 lbs each and not too hard on the airspeed ( aprox 3 mph ) they install in 10 min no hose , there a couple of vid on youtube ,one little plus is you dont have to pump ( or wait to cycle )to go from pavement to snow just give throtle and go.

SchulerJL
01-21-2014, 08:43 PM
With all this ski talk no one has said anything on trick air skis , I was looking at a set as I now have a aviat husky and it seems trick air is the way to go , but inside brackets need to be welded on , Is any one flying trick air skis

Gerry


Just got a set - have not landed in snow yet - posted this picture in the thread"Cold Weather Operations" just a little bit ago.

Switched to 3" extended gear and I thought it would be a good time to add them. There is a fitting that welds to the gear leg. You need the skis to position the fitting so you have to pull the gear off of the plane to weld the fitting on

1466914670

C-FIJK
01-21-2014, 08:51 PM
Well the look good on you cub please let me know how they work in the deep snow , or wet snow Gerry

wirenuts
01-21-2014, 09:15 PM
Well the look good on you cub please let me know how they work in the deep snow , or wet snow Gerry

Here is a set I put on four years ago and I am really happy with them although I have not any other's to compare them to (these are my first set). I have landed in 18-24 inches of powder and even some wet snow not too deep 12 inches or so and they do not build up on the ski's very much other than behind the wheel.. The only issue is the weight. I think they are 46 lbs each mine are 2250's. In my opinion they seem to be on the heavy side, but look like they can take some abuse if you got yourself in a bad situation.
Dave R 14671

courierguy
01-21-2014, 10:14 PM
These are Datum (experimental only) wheel skis on a gravel bar. I did it one time, before we got some snow, no harm done but I don't plan on making it an everyday occurrence! More of a see what they could do thing.http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu213/simkot/mega014_zps643b18ec.jpg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/simkot/media/mega014_zps643b18ec.jpg.html)

cliffy
01-31-2017, 08:42 PM
hey Jim, I have a set pf aero r2800s for my Scub. Iam missing the bracket on both skis that attaches to the outside of axel.Know anybody who does, other than buying new? thks Cliffy

Scouter
01-31-2017, 09:44 PM
I have some parts left kicking around from my R2800 days, let me go to hangar tomorrow. Pretty sure cub uses different axle mount than scout. Might want to give a shout to FMD, he just put a set on MD. Where you been holed up?

jim

cliffy
02-01-2017, 07:44 AM
Thks Jim! Will b awaiting your reply. Also who is FMD and what is MD? Slow on this forum stuff? Thks again

cubdriver2
02-01-2017, 10:42 AM
Thks Jim! Will b awaiting your reply. Also who is FMD and what is MD? Slow on this forum stuff? Thks again

MD is a super cub called Miss Daisy, John who flys her when Tom doesn't have her is FlyingMissDaisy

Glenn

cliffy
02-01-2017, 10:59 AM
Now I got it, Thks Cliffy

RaisedByWolves
02-01-2017, 11:16 AM
Thks Jim! Will b awaiting your reply. Also who is FMD and what is MD? Slow on this forum stuff? Thks again

John Meade. Aka flying miss daisy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scouter
02-01-2017, 01:27 PM
Maybe I have the wrong Cliff. Do you fly a yellow cub under bridges with Hungarian strippers in the back on your way to sell stocks and try manage other peoples retirement funds? Either way I will look at my box of Aero parts

Jim

cliffy
02-01-2017, 04:28 PM
I wish that was me!!!!!

Scouter
02-01-2017, 07:35 PM
I had a set of cub gear for the R2800 but I must have sold them. Not in my stuff sorry. Aero should be able to help

jim

cliffy
02-01-2017, 09:04 PM
Thks for checking! Cliffy