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Letter of Agreement for new strip

SteveE

SPONSOR
Jenks, OK
Does anybody have, or know anybody that has a letter of agreement between the FAA and a landowner. The FAA is starting to back out of an oral agreement to start a Letter of Agreement for me to put in a private strip. I am in a Class D airspace, but they said it could be done, no problem, even had me fly the pattern a time or two. Now they are starting to backtrack. Said that they have some "young" controllers that might have trouble handling the situation, and that they did not want to put them in a stressful situation. Get real. I went up in the tower myself and talked to the controllers and they said no problem.
If anybody knows somebody or has a letter, please let me know.
 
I doubt that the FAA can PREVENT you from establishing a private strip within a Class D area. Now, if you feel that you need FAA sanction for your strip, that's another thing.

In Fairbanks, there are at least a half dozen or more private strips within the Class D surface area(plus a couple of off airport areas-the river, where floatplanes land all the time). This is a pretty busy terminal area as well.

There are rarely problems, and the ones that do occur probably would have occured had the bonehead been going to the main airport anyway.

The controllers there work little airplane traffic going to Chena Marina, which lies right next to FAI, right along side jets landing at International, no sweat. Call the traffic to the jet, and go on about business. I've run continuous float operations IMMEDIATELY west of the big runway at FAI, with the admonition from controllers to stay below 1000 feet (below their traffic pattern) and don't cross over the runway. Some of our patterns would get REAL close to the runway. Never a complaint.

It works.

Who in the FAA is backpedaling? Let me guess--FSDO? ATC are the folks that will have to deal with the issue, not FSDO.

MTV
 
gypsy, yes I did file the form which was denied. Said I needed a letter of agreement with the local tower.

I doubt that the FAA can PREVENT you from establishing a private strip within a Class D area. Now, if you feel that you need FAA sanction for your strip, that's another thing

Mvivion, Can I put a private strip in a class d airspace? I dont care if it is sanctioned or not. What if I tell them I am going to do it whether they want me to or not?

I think they are backtracking because the manager of the tower is real busy and dosen't want to fool with it, in my opinion. He says it is a safety issue. I will be way under their pattern altitude and at least (if their pilots fly straight) 1 mile east of their N/S runways. This airport has a lot of students, Spartan and a few others, lots of foreigners who can barely speak English.

I can approach and talk to them on the radio and they can even give me clearance to enter or exit my field. But if I can do it without an approved FAA strip, that would even be better. Let me know.

The airport I am talking about is RVS (near Tulsa) and according to air nav has 926 operations a day. FAI has 365. So in my argument I could say that his controllers should have 3 times the experience and therefore his theory about controller stress wont have any merit.
 
ATC cannot deny you permission to enter a Class D surface area. They (ATC) don't get to approve or disapprove airports, they only manage TRAFFIC OVER TOP of the ground.

I don't know what the rules are, but as noted, there are a BUNCH of private, not FAA approved, not charted, airstrips within Class D surface areas that I'm familiar with. I'm fairly certain the ATC chief didn't "approve" any of those, and some of them, he didn't even know were there.

You will have to establish two way radio communication with the ATC facility, but they WILL NOT clear you to land or takeoff, because you are not operating at their airport.

It would certainly be best to work with the ATC folks, to develop intelligent and safe operating procedures, and that's why I'd want the facility chief involved. I guess if he's dragging his feet, I'd call him up, invite him to a cup of coffee or a beer off duty, and explain to him that you are GOING to operate a strip, but you would really, really like to work WITH ATC to develop safe and good operating procedures. If he doesn't understand that what that really means is that your presence can be intelligently directed by ATC, or you can just get clearance to enter their surface area, and go where you wish.

Any intelligent ATC type is going to work with you to avoid conflicts.

This can be done, as it is in FAI, by establishing different traffic pattern altitudes for different runways, moving traffic patterns to one side at one runway, and the opposite at the other, to establish "unofficial" approach and departure corridors, and so forth.

In Kodiak, the city airport and Lilly Lake, and the Harbor all lie just within the Class D surface area. Instrument approach procedures go right past there. At one time, ATC worked with local pilots to develop a "shoreline clearance" which allowed VFR traffic to come and go within the surface area, when conditions were below basic VFR, even with airplanes on the approach IFR. A pilot had to get a copy of the procedure and sign a statement that they are familiar with it, but that was it.

ATC should be HAPPY to work with you to make the airspace the safest it can possibly be, and that's the way I'd approach them.

Show me an FAR that says ATC has the authority to deny clearance into or out of a Class D surface area.

They will have to deal with you, better to do so up front.

Now, if there is a city or municipality involved, the ATC chief could go to them and suggest that your operation would pose a safety risk to "their" airport, and traffic. If he or she did that, I'd be on the phone to the Administrator's office, as well as my Senator's. Point is, I think it is in everyone's best interest to work out some safety solutions, and get on with it.

If he has questions on how it works, have him call Kevin Haines, at FAI Tower, (907) 474 0050. They deal with this all the time, and there are a few warts, cause there are so many players and so many fields. But, IT WORKS, every day.

MTV
 
Thanks, I will use all the info I can, calling the Senator is a good Idea. Our senator is Inhofe, and he is an avid flyer with all kinds of ratings. He might lend some help.
Thanks
 
mvivion, After rereading your post, ATC is ok with me entering their airspace, that is not the problem. Their tower chief has to write a letter of agreement so that the ATC bosses above him, ( the folks that approve airpstrips), will approve the strip. He says they probably wont because of the traffic conflict. I disagree.

Yes I will be in the city limits, but the mayor is my good buddy and he told me he would get it approved if the airport aproved it. If I dont have to have the airport aprove it, then the city will do it anyway. The head ATC at the airport told me that if I land there without it being an approved airstrip they would call out all the firetrucks and call it a crash, because it is within class d. I think he is bluffing. I just need to find out if I can have an unapproved strip inside class d, then I can get the ball rolling.
 
Steve,

Again, there is nothing in the FAR which says private airstrips have to be blessed by the FAA. There are, in fact, thousands of airstrips in this country that the FAA has no knowledge of at all, and the FAA doesn't care, frankly. Now, I'm betting that if you decided to create an airstrip on private land within a Prohibited area, they might get concerned. But, Class D airspace??

But, it sounds like you are kind of in a corner. I'll bet that the Mayor, buddy or not, will listen to the FAA guys pretty closely, and those guys, if they really are against you developing a strip, will almost certainly play all sorts of fright tactics, such as the massive threat you would pose to commercial passenger flights by operating in "his" airspace.

If you think you've exhausted the potential for discussion with the ATC chief for that facility, I'd tell him that you want to exercise your rights under the FAA's Customer Service Initiative. That requires him to put you in touch with HIS boss directly. And, if that person doesn't see the light, you do the same and go to that persons boss.

If it becomes clear that these folks won't cooperate, THEN I'd go to the Senator. That's the trump card, and you can then legitimately tell the Senator's staff that you've tried to be reasonable, you've gone up the chain of command, you've tried the Customer Service Initiative, etc.

The first question I would (politely) ask your ATCT chief is this: "Please cite the portion of the FAR which requires ATC oversight and/or approval of ANY airport" Make him show you the regulation first. If he comes up with one, make absolutely certain it applies to your specific situation. I doubt that he can come up with anything in writing.

Nevertheless, it would still be a good idea to have these folks on your side, and cooperating, so I'd go gently with this, and as noted VERY politely. That will get you a lot further than an in his face discussion.

Again, he needs to understand that it is in both parties best interest to establish operating procedures to make this work.

And it can.

You've got some steps to go through, and it'll take some time,

Good luck,

MTV
 
Letter of Agreement

The ATCT Manager is bound to comply with the FAA Order 7210.3, Facility Operation and Administration. Chapter 4, Section 3, Paragraph 4-3-1 states, in part,

a. "Air traffic managers shall negotiate a LOA when operational/procedural needs require the cooperation and concurrence of other persons/facilities/organizations. A LOA shall be prepared when it is necessary to:

b. ...

c. Define responsibilities and coordination requirements."

LOA's are easy if you can get them by the person(s) in the responsible Terminal Service Area and Legal department.

Good luck
 
P.S.

If you can get your hands on, or link to, FAA Order 7400.2, Procedures for Handling Airspace Matters, you will find how proposals for airports are handled. May give you some insight.
 
this is what I love about supercub.org, a wealth of info from a bunch of great guys. It might take some time, but it will be worth it. Thanks guys and maybe I will get to meet you someday.
Steve
 
labdad32,

Here is a link to the faa page, but the I cant find the chapter 4 section 3 stuff you talked about. My problem is that I just had foot surgery, broke my heel, and I am supposed to be on my back for the next 2 weeks and cant put any weight on my foot for 3 months. :bad-words: This limits my time on the computer. So if you dont mind, could you help me locate the section and chapter you are talking about.

I really appreciate it.
Steve

Here is the link,

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIR/

oops, I was looking under 7400.2 for the letter of agreement instead of the one in your previous post. I will try again.
 
7400.2

Begin at Part 3. Airport Airspace Analysis, Chapter 10 and go through Chapter 12. That should get you educated regarding what the FAA is responsible for, which office has to review proposals, how they make determinations, etc. That should narrow it down for you.

Good luck with the recovery.
 
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