Bushwheels in the Snow

Another one of my famous stupid questions (with followups!)

1. How deep of snow can a PA-18 handle with 31" Bushwheels?

2. How much extra room should you allow for takeoff?

3. Is there a good chance of nosing over in a wheel landing?

4. Any other pertinent info on the subject?

Thanks!

sj

Steve - How's this? It all depends...

Really snow conditions determine all:

Slushy, sticky stuff that is only 5 inches can be nasty and lead to nose-overs (though 31's should hydroplane over quite a bit of it) as can 8 inch snow with a hard 1 inch crust and granular or powder below.

With 31's, powder snow as deep as 10+ inches can be handled easily.

Moderately heavy snow should be OK but your techniques will change with the composition of the snow. More power and more backpressure increasing with the density of the white stuff. You will have to determine where the limit is. The 31's will be able to handle quite a bit.

Hardpacked snow found on snowmachine trails etc should be no problem at all.

The same applies for takeoffs but you should be able to handle even more in this regieme than in landing.

Bring that pretty new Top Cub up to Rainy this year and we'll test it out 8)

(Steve Johnston seems to really like his 31's I'll ask him if he's going to leave his on this year in lieu of his Aero Skis)

Brad

We've had a little snow here, I didn't know KC had a Blizzard already.

Fluffy fresh snow is easy. Crust on top of fluff is bad. Try to find out the conditions ahead of time where you are going to land. Snow type can very a lot within just a few miles. Do a wheel landing touch and go at your landing spot, then drag it and look at your tracks. If you know the snow is deep, but you leave almost no track, do not land. There is enough crust to support the plane, till you get slow and the full weight comes on the mains, and one or both will break through into the deep powder, and you will be on the phone with the prop shop. If landing on powder on top of ice, put one wheel in it and ride that wheel down in the snow as deep as you can, kicking the rudder back and forth to dig a wide trench with the tire. Drag the track to see if it is dark (overflow).

Load to a more aft CG, land tail low, power on, and be read with full power if anything does not feel right.

Remember that with just a little snow, brakes are almost useless. A locked big tire in the right snow conditions can actually gain speed. A truely short strip with snow on it seperates the men from the boys.

When in doubt about snow conditions safe for wheels, it's better to play it safe, and put the skis on. (That fancy high-buck Cub did come with skis, didn't it sj?)

steve said:

Another one of my famous stupid questions (with followups!)



3. Is there a good chance of nosing over in a wheel landing?



Thanks!

sj

Click to expand...

3. About 99.999% chance. Don't even develop that habit

delete

Steve

I have only landed my plane on fluffy snow a few times snow being 4" or less even with that little snow the tail wants to come up so you better hold that stick back. I am sure in the right conditions a person can land in deeper snow, proper tool for the job would be a good pair of skis. Snow conditions can change from day to day or morning to afternoon.

I did see one person land his plane in deeper snow it was impressive and alot of work to get it back over on its gear. In his case he had not walked the area so had no idea how deep the snow was.

Cub_Driver

Get some skis!

Sounds like I should get some skis....

sj

A truely short strip with snow on it seperates the men from the boys

Click to expand...

Sounds like the challenge has been made. Keep us posted, Steve.

Anne.

Skiis will probably be a real pain in the aXX where you live, although if you do have them and get one of those real wet heavy snows you could go out and play for a day and have lots of fun. I don't put my skiis on until I absolutely have to. The airstreaks are just easier to deal with, until the snow gets too deep. Once it does snow, every landing has certain risks unless it is on a known surface with known depth. when first learning, keep it on places that you know what is underneath the snow. As you build up time, you can start judging conditions to land in untested areas.

Steve, since you already have the plumbing you can have a new set of Wipaire AirGlide Skis for a mere $13,000. See http://www.wipaire.com/products_skis.html

Joe,

YIKES, I think the $$$ per usage factor is a lot more than I can handle.

sj

SJ: It is a safety issue, Dana will understand, I mean $13k versus a complete rebuild of a TopCub, log book entry 'Previous Damage history from being on it "TOP".

I think UPS will deliver the skiis, I will fly out and check you out in them?

Tim

snow tires

my experence landing in snow with tires as the worst case you will be on your back! unlesss you know the density of the snow, touching down in 12" of fluff or 8" of settled snow means all the differance you only have so much power!

Thanks for all the help, folks. Looks like the snow is gone for another year...

sj

snow

SJ,
All that rain in the last few days there, maybe a set of amphib floats would be better ?

Yes! After two years of drought, my dock is again barely in the water!

sj