• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

How can I fly the Alaskan bush?

Newbie

Registered User
Ok, I know that's probably going to cause a few snickers...but it's the most concise way I could think of to say it, and this is the best audience I could think of to ask it to. I'm a lawyer right now and I hate it. (*ok...go ahead and throw your tomatoes now...I know, I hate 'em too.*) It was a major mistake, and now I'm correcting it...about halfway to my PPL and loving every second of it, flying on the side between agonizing days of lawyering. I have to pay off a mountain of student debt before I can quit for good, but I'm doing that as fast as I can and looking forward each day to finally being able to do something I've always wanted to do. I'm 32 with a wife and kid. The only workable plan I can think of is simply to move to AK in a couple of years when debt isn't killing me as much, get the rest of my ratings (any good places come to mind?), CFI for a long time (maybe permanently?)...then just go for it. Or should I stop being a doofus and smack myself between the eyes with a big gnarly 2x4 reality board?
 
As my Grandpa once said " If you're heart's not in it, get you ass out of it"
Someone else said "Stick with what you know".

Maybe there is a compromise somewhere.......aviation attorney, etc. Good luck on your decision.
 
Newbie said:
The only workable plan I can think of is simply to move to AK in a couple of years when debt isn't killing me as much, get the rest of my ratings (any good places come to mind?), CFI for a long time (maybe permanently?)...then just go for it. Or should I stop being a doofus and smack myself between the eyes with a big gnarly 2x4 reality board?

Sounds like you finally know what to do with your life. Congrats on seeing the light on the lawyer thing...just kidding....Since you mentioned that you are already in debt, I would recommend against getting your additional ratings up here, as it can be pretty expensive. I did all my training in Fairbanks, and there is only one small school I am happy with here, and they have a wait list a mile and half long. I would recommend getting at least your instrument and commercial prior to coming up here. But that is just me. Also, the float rating could be helpful too, depending what you are planning on. Or if you are content to drive a 207 around all day you won't need much other than comm and inst. I definately don't blame you on leaving your profession to do something you love, as I have turned my back on several profitable potential careers for the sake of enjoying life.

Bill
 
Newbie,
I can relate to your situation, not sure what the aviation industry is like in AK but here in Canada it's pretty tough right now, even in the tourism aspect..... I graduated with commercial in 2000, presently 85% of my graduating class is unemployed as far as aviation goes, however it will turn around eventually. I would not consider working for 90% of the charter operators out there, the industry in Canada is set up to exploit the "new guys" and they do :bad-words: ........ I am just biding my time until I can start my own outfit, or an unusual opportunity presents itself...

My advice is be patient get some hours under your belt, obtain your commercial, and perhaps your IFR if you can keep it current... Your opportunity will come, however I would definately get things squared away at home "financially" before packing up your family and heading off to the wilds of Alaska... In the mean time just enjoy Flying!

Best Regards
New Guy
 
Do what you love as a hobby. I would find a firm that was more enjoyable. I don't fly for a living but I do rebuild old airplanes for one. I love what I do but don't make a killing at it. It's hard to find time and money to work on my own projects. I imagine it's hard to make a living as a Bush pilot. I have read many books on the old timers starting with nothing and building an airline but in this day and age I don't think thats as likely to happen. I do know that if you set your mind to it and are willing to go to any lengths you can do what ever you want. I started with a rented hanger and a tool box. It's been 6 years and a lot of long days and nites but I now have my own hanger and quite a bit of equipment. It's gotten easier. It would just be hard to throw lawyer's wages and all that hard work away.
 
Newbie,

I'm a dream chaser myself. I'm lucky to have a job where I work 30 hours a week (granted, it is 24 x 7 on call), and can spend another 30 on this website, then another 30 flight instructing. On weekends, I usually fly for fun on top of that.... 8)

I suspect you can always fall back on being a lawyer, but the best advice would be to do a little of both. Too much of anything can be a bad thing sometimes...

sj
 
Call Art Warblow of Warblow Flying Service in Fairbanks. He is also educated as a lawyer but flies the bush. He can at least give you some guidance since he is quite successful.
 
First I think that one has to do what one has to do. That said I'll relate my personal experience/opinions. I am 33 married just finished an undergraduate degree. When I was in my early 20's I worked as a helicopter pilot for awhile and I did'nt much care for it as a profession. Flying helicopters is great fun, flying them on someone else's terms isn't all that great. I then spent the pretty much the rest of my 20's working as a professional skydiver(teaching and filming) and again I came the conclusion that what you do for work will become work. This is of course not true for everyone or every career, just my opinion. My idea is to find work that I am good at(but not passionate about) and is hopefully financially rewarding without being overly soul crushing. Personally I would rather fly a J3 on my own terms than anything for work. Reading around this web site it seems that the people having the most fun in SCs are people flying the bush for recreation, and that is something that I would like to do, (for recreation). Anyway all of this is just my opinion and is no way intended to be a judgement on anyones choice of vocation or avocation. And remember ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Gregg
 
Actually, Art's major was business economics, and he is a professor of economics at UAF. He also owns Warbelow's Air Ventures, which is a scheduled 135 carrier, running C-206's and Navajo's mostly. Art has one Cub, which he flies during that hunting season to keep his hand in.

This is precisely the approach I'd suggest you take, by the way, that is: find a law firm here in Alaska that you can work with. On the side, either buy an airplane and build some experience, or try to find someone who'll let you fly. One of the biggest kinks in anyone's program up here is getting some time in Alaska, for insurance purposes. Most insurance carriers want 500 hours of Alaska time, regardless of ratings, but there are exceptions.

Anyway, perhaps this would allow you to pay off debts, while starting to build some experience in Alaska, and also give you the opportunity, with some cushion, to figure out whether both you and your family, will like Alaska well enough to stay. I've been here nearly 30 years, and I love the place, but every once in a while, I get this "get the hell outta here" attack, which generally lasts for about twenty minutes. Nonetheless, it isn't for everyone, and before you cut all ties to the law, I'd ease my way into it.

By the way, earning a living flying in bush Alaska is a thankless, not too pretty job, having to deal with a lot of unpleasant people, some actually sober, with incredibly long hours, lousy benefits (if any) and poor pay. Screw up just once the wrong way, and it won't just end your career, it'll end your life.

All but the last two probably fit the lawyering trade, as well.

Nonetheless, a smooth flight right at sunrise with a nice bunch of folks for passengers can be a very rewarding profession. There are sights and experiences you won't find anywhere else.

There are some good opportunities for lawyers up here, find one where you can pay off your debt, eat, and see if this is where you want to be. In the meantime, I'd agree that I'd get rated elsewhere, preferably before coming to AK. Training up here is too restrictive, at least for the basics.

Good luck,

Mike Vivion
 
Alaska bush flying

Cubdriver: Art Warbelow is a graduate of the harvard business school. He doesn't fly much any more, too busy. As far as flying in the bush goes, most of it involves flying mail/freight and native passengers out to their villages. It's not a bad job depending on the equipment your working with, and the kind of support you are getting at your place of work. If you are doing your own thing, you do everything and that is a load to carry. Just to make a flight in the winter, you need to preheat/remove covers or frost/snow, figure out the load/seat configuration(did the passengers show up yet?) check the weather(did anyone plow the runway yet in the village) check when official daylight is because you can't haul passengers into an unlit runway. Try to get a hold of your passengers in the village who are riding on the return so they know you are coming(it's too cold to sit on the ground for too long) and when you get done you need to fuel for tomorrow/ put the engine and wing covers on and then all the paperwork that the FAA says you must do. It's easier to work for a carrier, but some are not much fun to work for, long hrs. low pay, incompetent managers and help. It's easy to get burned out flying that way, just like anything you need to have some fun flying or like steve says it becomes work.
 
Hi,

I am somehow in the same situation. I have a well paying job i am not really satisfied with. But i agree with GreggB, If it's work, it will probably someday feel as work :) Furthermore i actually like having a certain amount of money per month. I really got used to that. I just did my PPL in a proffessional ATPL school. I was the only PPL student there. From my class, and the class after that, and.....well lets put it that way: If anyone gets a job, there is a big party! Looks not very good right now. At least not in germany where i am from.

I had the idea once to run a professional charter business. But as i calculated there is not much money to make and a lot of risk these days. Flying is so expensive that people fly lesser and lesser. The amount of people willing to become a recreational pilot decrases.

But hey, like in flying: safety is first! This goes also for financial decisions :)

So i will probably look for another job wich is more fun and keep flying for fun (as much as i can afford). Perhaps the sport plane catecory (we will eventually get something similar in europe) will light up interest in flying again and renting out planes will become finacially more interesting one day...That day i will think about it again.

As an alternative i can imagine selling planes could be fun. But as sales are that much down, that idea is probably also a waste....

well, good luck anyway with any decision you take.....


Mirko "Psychonaut"
 
I can only imagine what it must be like siting in a stuffy office all day looking at the wonderful weather outside and dreaming of the freedom and independence a Bush pilot in Alaska must have. I understand how the dream can draw men up here. On the other hand I can tell you what it's like to be caught flying in scud building ice no place to land wishing I was in a nice warm dry safe office.

Hang in there it will all get better when you get your student loans payed off. Being you have a good job with a predictable income I would recommend you keep your flying as recreation for now travel and enjoy it. Pick up more ratings over time and build lots of time in the air. Having to fly your plane when you don't want to dampens the freedom and independence you are now enjoying.

If in time you want to make the jump over to being a working Alaskan Pilot spend a summer up here flying around and meeting with the different operators.

Cub_Driver
 
If what you love can become work, I don't think you're doing it right. I gave up on corporate America in 1998 and became an A&P. While I'm currently on an extended all-expense paid vacation in Iraq, courtesy of Uncle Sam, I have no problem putting in 10-12 hours working on airplanes at my job, and then rushing home so I can work on my wife's airplane. My co-workers look at me odd, but before I left, I was looking for ways to get projects done during breaks and lunch, too.

It may be that I'm just a complete maniac, but every bit of me wants to work on airplanes, especially since I've been unable to touch them for 9 months, now.
 
Good luck to you and all your buddies and comrads over there in Iraq, Drew. I know I was surprised to read your posting from there, and I hope you get to come home soon.

Nice thoughts about doing what you love. I'm having my hard times in corporate America myself these days. I'm making money, good money, but more and more it seems like the way we're doing things isn't right, and isn't worth the human emotional costs. "Brutal" is the best way I can describe my workplace these days.

Godspeed, Drew.
 
I am living your dream. It is the best.

mirror.jpg
 
Not to hijack the thread, but now comes the tricky part, job-wise. I am, by no means, what you could even loosely describe as a "team player". I really need to quit my full-time job and go to work for and by myself. I'm halfway scared spitless of being completely on my own, but I've done the financials and know I can do it.

Here's to courage, and I've gone this far, so I might as well go all the way.

Drew
 
Not to hijack the thread, but now comes the tricky part, job-wise. I am, by no means, what you could even loosely describe as a "team player". I really need to quit my full-time job and go to work for and by myself. I'm halfway scared spitless of being completely on my own, but I've done the financials and know I can do it.

Here's to courage, and I've gone this far, so I might as well go all the way.

Drew
 
When I opened my own shop I was as nerous as a long tailed cat in a rocking chair factory. I left my previous job on great terms and knew I could always go back. I really didn't want to take that option. I'm greatful that I didn't have to. I think it would be very hard for me to work for some else now. I very much like being my own boss. If something screws up there is no one else to blame but me and if there are rewards I get to reap them.
 
I can make doing anything fun if I WANT to do it, but if I HAVE to do it, it's another story. I love flying, but if I HAD to do it for somebody else, I think that I could grow to not love it as much. I would tend to agree with a lot of the advise given so far. Go with a law firm in Alaska, exploring the aviation opportunities once you get up there and figure it out. Lawyers generally deal with a diverse group of people, I am sure some aviation opportunities will present themselves if you keep your eyes and ears open for them. Good Luck.

Pat
 
Be careful here. It takes a LOT of money to fly as a hobby. For you to obtain the type of income that is required to fly on the side or as a hobby you will have to sell your soul to Lawering. You will work very long hours and what time that is left will be spent with the family ( or should be ), leaving little to no time to pursue your passion.
I fly for a living and still enjoy it and come home and fly a J-3 for pure fun. No stress. In lawering every encounter is negative.... someone is suing, in trouble, being sued, getting a divorce, etc. Very negative and stressful. STRESS WILL KILL YOU.
In short, if you don't want to be a lawer, then don't. Life is short and no one ever laid on his death bed and wished he'd spent more time at the office. If you really want to fly then do it. You will be happier and your family will be happier too.
 
I appreciate everyone's feedback...great perspectives all around. The conceptual tension between "do what you enjoy for a living" and "if you do it for a living you won't enjoy it as much" is extremely interesting. I honestly think I could fly all day every day and continue to wake up excited about it for the rest of my life...as opposed to what I do now, every second of which I absolutely loathe. I'd rather chew tinfoil than practice law for the rest of my life. I don't want to fly an airliner, cruising at flight levels and monitoring the autopilot. I respect those who do it, but it's just not for me. As evidenced by my other posts (aerobatics, cropdusting), I'm basically just searching for a feasible fit. Right now I am trapped until I pay down enough of my law school loans to allow an escape. I have no choice right now but to grit my teeth and slog through it for another year or two. My family has decided that it is "less than enthused" about living in Alaska (they just don't get it). So it looks like cropdusting is probably the way to go. Now...to research ag-schools. We're planning a road trip vacation in a while to visit U. Minnesota (Crookston), Ag-Flight (Bainbridge, GA), and Carolina Thunder (N. Carolina). I really do appreciate everything that everyone has offered me. This is a wonderful site with wonderful participants.
 
Newbie,

Do you know what it's called when you take an activity you love, and try to make a living doing it?

A job.

Watch out, it may turn your passion into drudgery.

Been there, done that.

SB
 
Newbie,
It sounds like we are in the same shoes! Although I do have to admit I did not go to law school (pondered it though). I think that if a person feels compeled to try something new than they should go for it. It is much easier to test the waters and decide that it wasn't all it's cracked up to be, than it is to be almost on your death bed and wishing you would have tried this or that. I too am thinking on the lines that you are, and wish to do the same type of flying (bush work, floats, cropdusting or firebombing) I will probably test the waters here in Alaska first and I think I'll try it on my own. I think the key to survivng on your own is to be flying airplanes that are paid for, I say this because of the hull insurance issue and if it's paid for and you are willing to take the risk you don't have to carry it until you prove yourself to the inssurance industry, that way you can afford it ( this is all just a theory in my mind). I welcome any comments or advice. Let me know what you find out at the Ag flying schools. I did talk to Crookston and they have Scholarships if you already have a degree with I think a 3.5 GPA.

Happy Landings,
Tony
 
Newbie- A couple things you have to realize about cropdusting are- The most romatic part of cropdusting is where you're sitting right now. On the outside looking up. To this day, I still get a bigger rush pulling up on a hill early in the morning and listening to the sound of a 1340 or 520 echo across the valley. Unfortunately, I very seldom get to hear that cause I am usually a couple hills away and all I can hear is noise in my headset and it doesn't sound near as romantic.
The thought of flying one of those nice shiny turbines that Murph flies sounds great, but the reality is, that you probably won't see one of those from the inside for a long time. Instead your first job after you spent all that money getting those ratings and schoolin will be loading for someone that is or if you are real lucky, flying a beat up old Cessna in a one horse town where the only entertainment in 50 miles is to go drink beer at the local watering hole with your customers, who don't really have to get up in the morning but expect you to be there at sunrise if the wind isn't howling, which it usually is, unless you went down to the local watering hole till wee hours of the morning cause you got sick of watching the wind blow all week in which case it will be perfectly calm that morning.
Also, the pay those first few years won't be much cause nobody that has real good paying spraying wants to risk it by putting a beginner in his airplane and having it or the job screwed up and lose a good customer.
After two or three months of eating , drinking and sleeping nothing but spraying, the last thing a person wants to hear is that alarm clock at 3:30 in the morning.

The good news is that after all that, about a week after the season slows down, you start getting withdrawl symptoms , and just have to go drag an airplane out and go putter up the valley admiring the view. If you make it that far, life doesn't get any better-- But you better be sure that you want to subject your family to those first few years.
 
You might want to read this article before you switch jobs...

Excerpt: Most dangerous jobs:
Commercial pilots are third on the list, buoyed by numbers from pilots of small airplanes. According to the article, an Alaskan bush pilot who works a full career runs a one in eight chance of dying an untimely death. Those are higher odds than winning a free Mountain Dew in those ?look under the cap? promotions

Article:
http://www.hibbingmn.com/placed/index.php?sect_rank=4&story_id=156196

sj
 
If you run your own operation and are smarter than you are greedy, you can curtail this phenomenon drastically. Most of the pilots getting killed or killing their passengers are flying VFR into IMC conditions. The industry up here is deffinitely trying to change as well.

Tony
 
I've brushed with death twice already -- not scared anymore. I'd rather die young and happy than old and miserable. (Of course, old and happy trumps both, but if I had to choose...).
 
Back
Top