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Performance Air Cub

C

cobblemaster

Registered User
KHRR
I just got done reading my latest Northern Pilot and am interested in the Super Cub kit that Performance Air is selling. I had a chance to buy a flying wore out 56 super Cub that needed everything for 32000. After putting the pencil to it I would of had more into it than I could sell it for when rebuilt. At least with this kit 33500.00 I would have the majority of parts except engine, intruments,fabric wheels and brakes. It would appear I could build it for under 60000.00. Im I not thinking correctly?
 
Engine, prop, radios, instruments, fabric, paint, wheels, brakes, tires, and upholstery on top of the kit will leave you at 70K plus, not allowing for the little stuff that you didn't know about but will surely need. That's if you work for free. Sad, but true. Now THAT'S a plane you can't sell for what you have invested. Stick with a Cub.
SB
 
If I rebuild a wore out cub I wouldnt get my labor out of that either.

I figured 12000 for a engine, 2000 prop, 3000 fabric, no radio, 1500 basic vfr instruments, 800 wheels and brakes, 300 tires, dont need bushwheels plus another 10000 misc. I would have a cub thats brand new and not a cobbled together rebuild that somebody cut corners on to make money. I really dont see the point in spending 60000 on a 30 year old cub that still need work and is half timed out. stewartb, how did you come up with 70000?
 
Experience. I'm rebuilding a PA-12. You're right though. 70K is wrong. I just added up my project. 80K is closer. Granted, I'm going all-out. But when it's done I have no doubt that I could sell it and not get upside down on the balance sheet. I've not seen any homebuilt do that. Not even close. Go back and look at the original "worn-out" cub for 32K. What do you really have to replace? Rebuild a motor. Re-cover. Change a couple of ribs. Repair a longeron. Budget that and you're easily under 60K for a real Cub. It already has instruments, wheels, seats, motor mount, cowling, airbox, lights, circuit breakers, etc. And a Piper data plate and a set of logs that don't say homebuilt. Add 15 or 20K and you have a kick-ass Super-duper Cub. If you love building experimentals, buy a kit. If you love flying Cubs, buy a Cub.
SB
 
All the parts you listed need to be replaced because there shot. If I bought that cub for 32000 it would be like buying paper work for 32000. Why did you have to rebuild your 12? Did it need alot of new parts?
 
I would have to go with Steve Tubbs on that one only because I have looked the kits over realy well and I wouldn't be in it to sell it, also Steve is a wiz with engines and I would have him and Shawn work it over!! So it all depends on what you want to do your airplane!!

Wup
 
If you want to get an idea of how fast misc items add up, go to the cub crafters website. They have a page where you can price out a new cub. Another place is Vans aircraft website, they have a calculator there for pricing out various RV aircraft. RV kits sell for around $20,000 give or take a little. Finished airplanes with new engines, instruments etc, etc are in the $70,000 to $80,000 range and even above that. I have a friend that just finished an RV8 and he figures he has well over $80,000 in it. I only mention this to give you an idea of how fast all the so called "small stuff" mounts up $$$$.
Brian
 
Northern Pilot

Mark, got mine yesterday, its probably in the mail! I just finished my cub rebuild from the paperwork up, havent added all the receipts up yet but I dont think its any where near 80,0000 . If it is I've got one big credit card bill coming! I did have my engine n lift struts, but purchased everything else new, fusalage, wings, tail feathers, cowls, glass,flaps ailerons, landing gear , Boer prop, etc. Be interesting to compare to the Performance Air #s
 
First, yes, I've replaced about everything in my 12. I will have a 12 that is essentially brand new. The spars and a few ribs are about the only things being re-used. The tone of my reply goes back to the same old certified vs. homebuilt issue, and I've said it before, I wouldn't build a homebuilt. I know there are good ones, but until the manufacturer's liability issue is solved, my name won't go on one. Another issue is investment vs. asset. I have yet to see a homebuilder sell a plane for what it cost to build. That kills the deal right there. And last, if this 32K Cub is that worn out, find a better one. They're out there.
SB
 
cub rebuild

Its a long story, Iwas rebuilding after my hanger collapsed from a blizzard, when I lost everything to a fire. Fortunatly my engine n struts were at dads . After a harsh lesson in aircraft insurance I proceeded to purchase everything else !!
 
Cub rebuild

As far as hrs spent working on it, fire was Jan. 2002 , 1st flight was Feb 19 , 2003 n it seemed like every waking hour was spent working on it! I did have a girlfriend when I started , but not too sure now, what was her name , they just dont understand 11
 
bet i could scratch build a cub in a year ( 60hr?week) with a midtime 0320 ($10,000) all new airframe for less than $30,000.
 
This has been debated over and over many times. If you add up what you get in that "kit", you will find that the same money will buy just about the same in certified new parts. I'm not saying the kit is bad, but if you are going to spend that kind of money, why not buy parts that are built to a certain standard, wether you are going to write experimental on the side of the plane or not? At least you have the option of going certified, and ending up with a plane that will be worth twice as much in the end. But if you have the 50-70K and want to fly a Cub, why not just buy one and fly?, instead of buying a pile of parts that will probably end up rusting away in your garage while you look at them and dream about flying. If you look around, you should be able to find a nice Cub for 40-50k, spend the rest on gas, fly, and be happy.

If you enjoy building, and have the skill and knowledge to do it right, by all means, get a pile of tubing and some drawings and build away. But building is almost never a way to get a cheap plane. If I was like don d and could somehow take a whole year off, (that will never happen, but what a wonderful thought), the last thing I would want to do with that year is work full time building a plane. I'd take that 30k, buy a old Cub and fly the hell out of it for that year instead. But building planes for me is a living (work), so I suppose my perspective is different.
 
PA

Hey, I was doing some research and it appears that the Performance Air Cub from ID and The Daytona Cub from FL are the same airplane. Both are built in Canada by Smith Aircraft and resold here in the US by these two outfits.

(Custom Planes Magazine March 2003 issue)
 
Steve told me that when I called him a month or so ago. The McCall operation is more set up for a back country type cub verse a city cub. Tubbs in the NW distributer. On another thread I read about the wrinkle in the fabric on the blue cub, probably from putting the strake on or its covered with Stits. I still think I will buy one. I dont see the point in buying a project for X amount of dollars and then have to buy everything that comes with the kit anyhow. Or buy a 50000 dollar cub that needs fabric or a engine in 5-10 years. stewartb says just get a project and replace a rib or longeron etc but thats not how it turns out, doesnt sound like thats how his project went. I got other planes to fly so that is not a factor.
 
Mark..tell me I'm wrong here. Just doing some thinking/dreaming. I have an application where this PA/Daytona Cub might be the way to go. Small lake near Ely surrounded by 100 ft + trees. I could get in and out of there on ski's with a stock 150 in the winter (dogleg). But floats in the summer would be a whole 'nother story.

I would want to run Baumann 2150 amphibs (I like their hull design and lighter weight better than the Wips) but you can't use them legally on a certified Cub and carry anything. (Wip's GWI only applies to their float).

If I could build up a 180-200 hp Cub, that would give me the performance needed to get out of the hole on this lake with some safety margin. Would 200 hp tear the tail off this airplane eventually? Do the strakes help mitigate the shaking? (cables in the leading edge of the stab?) Airframe strengthening? (Charlie Center mod?)

The only reason I'm thinking along these lines is for the Baumann amphib float application. The Wips being heavier, draggier and limited to 180 hp might make it too marginal.

Might just have to go with straights and a 160-180 conversion on a used airplane.

Brad
 
What is the relationship with Stits and that wrinkle in the fabric on that Cub Clone? Looks like something is loose or turbulence is forcing the leading edge of that strake down very hard! Information on $ would have been nice, experimental is looking very attractive. Jim
 
I don't know Brad, a 200 hp amphib would be a very costly experiment if it doesn't live up to your expectations.

If I wanted a high hp amphib experimental and had the disposable income to do it right, I'd be the first kid on the block with a Sherpa in the shop.
 
Anyone have any thoughts or experience with the way the wing is built on the Performance Air Cubs? Like how they use tubing instead of drag wires. It looks like they use a 13 rib wing similar to the one made by Carlson Aircraft.
 
I hear ya' Mark. It was a passing thought. COMPLETED airplanes in magazines do strange things to one's cognitive ability. It worked on a guy here. He's planning on buying one as soon as a land deal goes through.

As for finding another lake, hard to get the relatives to move off, they just bought the place. Great fishing and nobody around. There are larger bodies of water within walking distance, but that's not the point :wink:

Brad
 
Kit

Cobbler: If I were you I'd go with certified Dakota wings and an Airframes Inc fuselage etc. They are PMA'ed so the FAA has made them jump through all the hoops and the cost is not much different fom the $33K kit. I talked with Lee Buddi (Airframes Inc. owner) last week. He said Mark Erickson (Dakota Cub) and he were working with the FAA to put together a certified PA-18 kit. All his airframe parts and Dakota's wings, tanks, ailerons, flaps etc. The experimental kit you're looking at, made in Canada, sold by two different outfits here in the U.S., dosn't inspire much confidence and at $33K it's no great deal. Crash
 
Dakota cub ;Airframes Inc.

Crash, couldn't agree with you more! I've been to Mark's facility in South Dakota to pick up new wings, 1st class set up n people! Lee and the folks at Airframes Inc. were most helpfull in getting the rest of the parts I needed (fusalage, tailfeathers, gear, etc.)!
 
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