toe brakes

I am in the process of buying a pa-18 airframe from univar they come set up for heal brakes, what does it take install toe brakes? Or is it a bad idea?

Maybe you just can't teach some of us dogs new tricks, but after years of heel brakes in a Super Cub, I had a Hard time adjusting to toe brakes in a Husky the few times I flew one. Don't know why either cause my spray planes have all had toe brakes. Maybe just a mental thing cause I was in something similiar to a Super Cub. Are you used to flying a Cub with heel brakes or is most of your time in something with toe brakes? I would venture to guess you could stick it on its nose easier with toe brakes.

Someone brought this up before. I think SJ has toe brakes in his CAP SC. If I remember causes problems in the back seat. When you change things it seems to have a snow ball efect. When I first started flying Cubs I didn't like the heel brakes but know I can't imagine anything else. I fly a Husky with toe brakes. Your foot tends to hit the firewall before you get full brake. It is kindf of awkward to me.

Toe Brakes

I think you would be happier with a Cessna. Toe brakes on a Super Cub is like putting a Yamaha engine in a Harley Davidson... sacralidge. Crash

I had a '53 CAP 18 like SJ's with factory installed toe brakes for awhile, and I had a hard time keeping off them. I thought they were awkward. Maybe it was just how those pedals were engineered, and better ones could be had, but I wouldn't do it. I bet the guy that landed on the 160' island in that short landing thread doesn't have toe brakes.

Idelete

Brakes?!?

Brakes? Jeez, I just use the grass. Best brake around. I'd have a hard time giving up heel brakes, too.

Interesting pic Diggler with the fuel valve on the panel next to the switches. Wonder if this was experimental---curved stick also

Mark

delete

removed

They'll take my heel brakes when they pry my cold dead toes from the wreckage. Grrrr, toe brakes choke.
Rock.

I flew heel brakes first in my Cub, my foots instinct is to operate that way. With the Pacers toe brakes I am always hitting the stupid brakes when I don't want them, even after 2000 hrs in it, I still have to think about it.
Steve

I'm curious about the purpose of installing toe brakes. What are the benefits? I don't notice any detectable difference when switching back and forth between the Cub and the Cherokee, so it seems like a lot of work for naught to me.
All the best,
JimC

Brakes

I myself never had a problem changing from heal to toe and back, But when you
have lost control and really want it back before the parts start flying give me the
heal brakes. --- Did I ever do that, I'll never tell. Wayne

Hey Steve- on my Pacer I put a little air in the system to keep the toe pedal brakes from being so touchy, has worked well so far. One thing though- I still have single puck brakes. She will stop on gravel in 400-500 feet.
On cubs I like heel brakes but they had better be in good shape, slack in the connector to the master or poorly bled systems don't work well for me. I have a hard time cramming my heel real hard and working the pedals when a precision landing on rough stuff is required. I like those heel brakes with light trigger tension
Joe

On toe brakes: All the CAP (or "tango") cubs apparently used toe brakes. My first experience was with 190T & 191T in Atlantic city in 1962. I didn't know any better; thought they were OK. Latest experience is with 195T, and I can truly say: beware! When we picked it up, the brakes were adjusted for a long-legged pilot, and no amount of care would avoid brake application when pressing rudder. We shortened the rudder cables enough to "get her home", but then found out that the brake pedal would strike the firewall at full rudder, which made for lousy ground handling. Adjustment of these things is critical. CRITICAL!

The mechanism is, of course, hooked to the rudder pedals, and is a drag on the normally light rudder pressures in a Cub. It makes slips a bit less of a joy, and seems to get in the way when dancing in a shifting crosswind. Coordinated turns are reminiscent of the PA 22 series; it feels like there is a giant sponge tied to the rudder pedal.

And you should see all the junk that is attached under the pilots seat. In a word, complicated. And definitely not attractive. So, I agree with many others - heel brakes belong in the cub. If you want minimum pedal travel, convert to disc brakes. My favorites are the experimental 8:00x4 units made by Grove Aircraft, but if you can stand the 6:00x6, the Clevelands are almost as good, and legal on a Cub.

Don't put toe brakes on an otherwise good Cub. I go "back and forth" every day between the J-3 and the Decathlon, and never really notice!

Most toe brakes have a clevis on the end of the actuator that can be adjusted so the brake is not applied when the rudder is. I have logged many hours in Clippers with toe brakes and SC with heels. I have to admit that the heels were awkward at first but second nature now. My motto- Adapt and Overcome.

Toe brakes . I wanted them - got them and wish I did not have them.

Since 90 % of my time is on floats. I wish I had to remember to put my feet on the brakes instead of keeping them off.

Actually, I don't remember using the brakes except for turning.

Wish I was on wheels and brakes instead of floats in this weather.

GR

If you go the 6" rims and Clevelands, I recommend 8.50x6 tires in lieu of the 6.00x6's. The 8.60 looks a lot more like a cub tire and is a bit bigger. I have a set on my 12, and am thinking about switching them to my cub so I can put 26" tires on the 12.

Re heel vs. toe, I learned with heel brakes and have a mild preference for the way they feel. I have a strong preference for their simplicity. After the first week or two, you'll quit thinking about which type you are flying and your brain will make the transition subconciously as you switch planes.

Jim

portagecreek said:

Toe brakes . I wanted them - got them and wish I did not have them.

Since 90 % of my time is on floats. I wish I had to remember to put my feet on the brakes instead of keeping them off.

Actually, I don't remember using the brakes except for turning.

Wish I was on wheels and brakes instead of floats in this weather.

GR

Click to expand...

Reminds me of when I started taxiing my Seabee on the water... I'd approach a dock/shore and start pushing on the brakes like I was on terra firma...

Steve P. hit the spot with his comment about "rudder cable length". Not all people have the same size foot? and if the front cable is not adjusted right for your foot/comfort you will most definitely get on the brake before full rudder. When I first got my 12 and started operating in into tight spots, I thought every landing was a potential crash, as I was dancing on the rudder I was also dancing with the brakes! (this sucks) litterly pulling the plane off the strip. I ended up taking an '1-1" out of the cable and thus moving the rudder pedals back toward the brake. (Like a new day)

Now this may not be the problem for those with SC as the front connect is a "solid wire"? Just a thought, and it only takes a couple minutes with a Nicropress?

Disclaimer: have an AP do it and check the entire rudder cable system for travel, stop and tension.

deleley