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INSURANCE

cubdrvr

cubdrvr

SPONSOR
YKN(mother city of the dakotas)
How about some input on insurance underwriters since 9/11 from all who care to post? I've had mine with Avemco and don't know what they will do this year. Last year it cost me $1200 for 65K hull. Also curious as to which underwriters allow off airport operations? From what I have heard the pool of underwriters to choose from is dwindling.
 
Dave:
In the ag market, there are only 3 underwriters still writing us and our premiums are up 20 - 40 % across the board over the last 2 years. No doubt that 9/11 played a part in the increase, but the trend had started up before that happened.

If you're getting written for $1200, you're doing better than I am and I spend in excess of $100,000 a year on 6 planes with the company. But my $2400 per year on my Cub also includes Cody, who's still a student pilot, and I insist on full off-airport coverage. They aren't very competitive or accomodating.
Supply and demand.

murph
 
$1,800/60k/no SCub Hrs/no hanger/no off road/no mid-year adjustment/AOPA.

They (AOPA) told me 100 Hrs in SCub & hanger would knock off $400.00 next year. 250 SCub Hrs would knock off another $200.00. Absolute best rate was $800.00/hanger/500+Hrs of SCub/commercial-IFR ticket, but non-commercial use/no off road.

Avemco was a tad higher (2K) but would make a mid-year adjustment for hanger and 100 Hrs, down to $1,700. Wasn't sure if I could make the 100 Hrs by mid-year so I went with AOPA.
 
I have Avemco, $1300 60K hull, 1 mill liability, no restrictions on landing. Hangered, set gun by hanger door, activated if tundra tires move without short, fat, guy at the stick!
Went up 10% last year? (they said all their policies went up across the board! I have all the ratings, non commercial, and +5000 in type.

I couldn't find better? but always looking

Tim
 
I have Avemco, 10% plus they no longer offer 5% for EAA members, so went up a total of 15% OUCH. $75,000 hull, ATP, CFII, MEI, 4,000 in type. Never had a claim, and no incidents or accidents = $1064. No restrictions on landings. I have never found anyone to beat avemco on cub insurance in the last 25 years, and I do shop.
 
insurance

Insurance is flustrating at best. I have two airplanes insured with AUA(1-800727-3823) The first is a Pa-11 with the c-90 the second is a Hatz biplane. On both of these planes Aua was SIGNIficantly less expensive than Avemco. My agent is Mac Magee and I have been with these folks for at least 5 years. Give them a call to check their rates out, you may like them better than some of the alternatives. Happy cubbing.
 
insurance

I was reading in seaplane pilots associatin about Falcon insurance agency being a market for seaplanes. This being a narrow specialty market that must have some supercubs amoung their insureds, might be worth looking into.their add talked like they really want to be in the market. I was an agent years ago but have not personal knowledge of their likes and dislikes. their number is 866-217-4772.
 
I just got a quote from Falcon, $950.00. Would only insure for hull value of $55,300. I never talked to them got it via email. Dont know if off airport is covered.
 
A customer of mine just got a policy through Falcon. Avemco wanted $3500 a year just on the Maule not including the Husky and Super Cub. Falcon was $2000 on the Maule but I don;t know how much for the Husky or Super Cub. And yea he flies all of them 150+ hrs a year. The nice thing is he puts me on his insurance and lets me fly everything but the Maule.

Steve
 
INSURANCE ISSUE AGAIN

Say guys/gals I have spent the better part of the day and many hours last week wringing out the insurance companies.

I reviewed all the past posts and it is misleading to look at just the premium totals.

I have got according to Avemco the "best rate" they give "anyone" due to time in type and tt. I was told that the best rate kicks in at about 2500 hours and above that makes no difference.

the major difference in their policy and that of others is that they "only" write limits of liability of 100k, 255k or 300K per "Occupant", STARTING THIS YEAR. no smooth limits and no more "per person" limits.

Last year and years past you could get "per person" coverage in the plane that would extend the limits of the policy (usually 1 mil) to those injured on the ground. Now the limits are "per Occupant" and in so doing I am told that the injured on the ground would be limited to either 100k or 300k depending on your policy.

If this sounds like mud, it is!! But the jest of it is "Avemco" has cut their exposure to "on the ground risk by 2/3s.

I have been quoted $1318 for 60k hull and 300k per "occupant" 1000,000 total limit. They don't have an off airport exlusion and have been really good to work with.

I am waiting for a quote from the other companies ( I will post rates)

Please, anyone that reads this detail the limits shown in your policy so that we can compare apples and apples.

Also, the provision that Avemco had that "the owner" had first right of salvage purchase went away with the disolvment of the assoiciation with EAA. (that was a big plus)!!

Hope this helps others.

Tim
 
Tim,

Thanks for the info. I would really like to find a way where folks could corroborate electronically in a meaningful fashion on this kind of stuff. If you guys will post stats, I will post some tables.

Thanks.

sj
 
I expect to hear shortly from Avemco and will post quote. Like Tim said they "have" been good in the past.
 
You got it Steve! surely the insurance companies don't do it! If you are good with Xcl could you post a spreadsheet template? or some format for the numbers/ companies etc?

I will work on it too,

Tim
 
Peter Diemer had a editorial on insurance in the last Northern Pilot. It was entitled "Assurances, but no insurance". I strongly agree with everything he said, and commend him for saying it.

Avemco really pissed me off when they stopped insuring commercial operators, they are no friends of GA. I wouldn't do business with them, no matter how low their rates are compared to others.
 
Good Point Mark! They definetly have lessened their exposure to risk! I am enthusiastically waiting for Regal Insurance to get back to me! The owner is a pilot and "owns a Supercub"

Tim
 
I hear you Mark. My shop insurance went from $1200 a year to over $5000 with a $10,000 deductible. I got rid of the spam cans and the insurance. Now the lawyers go after the shops cause of the General Aviation Revitalization Act takes liability away from the manufacturer after 14 or 15 years. Had a non-current (by 10 yrs) pilot flying a Cheyanne, put her in the dirt in the fog while making a procedure turn with a new Garmin 530GPS. Wasn't anything left, took a week to find. Lawyers were in here the day after Thanksgiving. Named the shop that installed the Garmin in the lawsuit. Go figure.

Steve
 
Steve,

I agree with you especially as it comes to those leeches called plaintive lawyers! (Sorry lawyers) if I offend anyone! Your profession earned (getting paid well) for it's reputation!!

Not to rant:

I am with SJ: it would be well for all of us if we could come up with a way to organize our "facts" about insurance carriers in all areas, $, coverage, offferings, and "actually experience, IE: cancellations, premium raises, surcharges, length of time insured, comparisons of "policy language, customer service response, etc.??

Tim
 
Has anybody thought about forming a pool of Cub owners?

We had one in the California ag market for a while and saved some money that way
 
PA12driver said:
I have Avemco, $1300 60K hull, 1 mill liability, no restrictions on landing. Hangered, set gun by hanger door, activated if tundra tires move without short, fat, guy at the stick!
Went up 10% last year? (they said all their policies went up across the board! I have all the ratings, non commercial, and +5000 in type.

I couldn't find better? but always looking

Tim
Click to expand...

That is a good deal. Mine is $1900 with simular data.
 
Is anybody self insured or know anything about self insuring? What are the pros and cons etc.
 
My Avemco policy is $100k/person, $500k property, $500k accident ($294) + $55k hull ($837). Total: $1131. Same liability but only $15k hull on my J4 costs $828 ($294+$534).

Oddly, I didn't change anything last summer at renewal, just reported that I my total time since it crossed a magic 500-hr mark and my rates actually decreased about 10% from the previous year. For the low time guys, my agent explained to me once how they calculate PIC time into your rate. He said the taildragger time (perhaps he meant time-in-type, but I'm quoting him) was "added" to total PIC time to determine the rate category. He told me about the brackets -- 100 hrs, 250 hours, 500 hours, etc. Whenever I update my time, they seem to reduce the rate by a point or two.
 
Just got "the only" other quote other then Avemco that was available to me that did not have "off airport" restriction and would give at least 330K per "occupant" and 1,000,000 total. AIG was that company. Seems that all other companies were really tightening up on the what they will insure. The "re-insurance" part of the industry is where the challenge is, that part of the industry that has taken a real beating after 9/11.

The other challenge I found was that "companies" are really leary of insuring aircraft that are 40+ years old. It will be to your best interest to have a good relationship with your 'agent', provide him "documentation" that shows your plane is "substancially" rebuilt using "new" parts??

Only after sending an Current Equipment list, list of STC's, FA's and statement of current value, picturees etc. was I able to get a "reasonable" if at all quote for hull value greater then 20% above the "book" value for my 1946 PA12

Thanks should be given to the Major Rebuilders such as CC, Charly Center, Dakota, and others for keeping the value of our planes up!

Merry Christmas

"All I want for Christmas is new cub parts (31"tires) buy tickets, buy tickets
 
You know what? I think this whole thing about 9-11 causing a huge problem for insurance companies is a load of crap! All of my insurances have gone up this year: malpractice, disab ility, life, car, office, home, workmans comp on my employees tripled (how the hell do you get hurt in a dentist office?), and airplane. I dropped the coverage on my sc on floats, hell I could buy a new one every ten years for what they want.
They all say the bill was so high for 9-11 that it has to be spread around. Oh yeah I forgot my medical ins went up $150/month too.
How many people were killed on 9-11? Less than three tousand, right? Well there are 6000 killed per month every month in auto accidents in the US. You figure it out that was a horrific day, but as a percentage of what the pay out , it wasn't that bad. Before anybody gets upset, I'm not saying 9-11 waqsn't a horrible tragedy. It was. I'm saying, financially it wasn't what they are making it out to be. I feel like insurance companies have figured out through HMO's that they can sucker people into paying them without having to shoulder the risk (like insurance traditionally did), so why not start using the same methods with all insurance? Letsa sell insurance, but not really cover anything. Then when something bad happens, we'll go crying to uncle sam for a bail out, and by the way lets see if we can't put the screws to our suckers, I mean valued customers, while we're at it.
Just my .02, probably shoulda put this on a rant page.
Ken
 
Ken,

You sound like my echo0000. You are right on the statistics! It is just as you say, the problem is every investor in the re-insurance business doesn't want to loose on his/her investment anymore than you or I do, they have the ability to pass that risk on to the insurance underwriters who in turn pass it on to the insurance companies, who pass it on to us the policy holders. In times past there would be a Boston Tea Party. Problem is we live in a society that has been allowed to sue for any reason for any amount and the Liberals have control of the ballot box and there agenda is as was "Robin Hood" Steal from those that have and give it to those that have not! The challenge with that is that the have nots are where they are cause they "choose to do not (nothing).

Ok I am ranting also. Most folks I know have abandoned the "Hull" insurance on there personal planes and consider the risk to that of only loosing a "toy".

I know several Docs that have chosen to post signage in there offices that say they have "No Mal Practice" insurance, allowing there patients to make their choice prior to treatment, and if not satisfied, don't bother suing cause the "pockets aren't any deeper then the one bringing suit"

Lawyers would not take on most cases today if it weren't for the Depth of the pockets afforded by "INSURANCE"!! TRUTH BE KNOWN, they look for that as a 'gauranteed" check,

Why do you think that Offshore accounts are gaining steam so quickly? Nevada Corporations and Trusts??

Tim
 
Sorry the original topic was about the cost of insurance. It is what it is as long as we the consumer let it be so?

Sorry to inject my political views--I just don't like the sue happy attitude, know matter who instigates it.

Tim
 
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