More fuel for a PA 11

[mvivion]

Okay, folks, any and all thoughts on adding fuel capacity to a (already flying) PA 11.

Plane currently has stock fuel system.

Adding a 12 gallon tank to the right wing seems most logical, and would offer enough additional fuel. Any idea of cost to install?

what about a combination belly pod with fuel? I know....no STC, but field approval of an 18 pod? This airplane has no electric, so pump would have to be manual.....doesn't scare me, one of the cubs I flew for a couple years at work had a 32 gallon Cunningham tank with a wobble pump.

Other ideas/thoughts? And, yes, I have played the five gallon gas thing in the back seat, but bear in mind these airplanes have tiny baggage. And, the gas bag I got from ABW leaks like a sieve from the cap, so only works well to fetch gas after landing.

Thanks,

MTV

 

[DENNY]

Keep it simple and and put the tank in the wing. Retired government workers get money for breathing so cost should not matter.
DENNY

 

[gbflyer]

Mike, our -11 had a PA18 headerless fuel system installed in Canada under their form of field approval. It had an 18 gallon tank in each wing. Upon researching it, I learned that the 12 gallon tanks are much lighter empty than the 18. As you know, ounces mean everything in a -11. I would not add an 18 gallon tank but I would add an additional 12. 24 gallons is plenty of gas in a -11. It might be doable to remove the header tanks as well, that is to say that I know it's physically possible and that it works fine. The paperwork might not be so easy.

 

[pa11driver]

Depending on how much more you want, I believe the Dakota tanks are an option as well.

 

[mvivion]

Thanks for the thoughts to date, and please keep them coming. Feedback from a local FBO was that it'd be a huge deal, which suggested to me he wanted no part of it.

i don't need a LOT more gas. The stock tank is 18 gallons, with 17 useable, so a 12 gallon tank in the other wing would give LOTS of range. The 12 gallon tanks are around $500, but then you need a tank cover, fuel selector, lines, etc. I THINK the 12 gallon tanks will fit between ribs so rib wouldn't have to be cut.....I think. Anyone ever done one of those?

The problem is installation in an assembled airplane. Good thought on the header less system, I guess, though any of this is probably going to take a field approval.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep the ideas coming.

MTV

 

[tophand]

Mike I feel your pain... I have 22 gal and would like more. If you're thinking of the 12 gal wag tank they only have 10.5 usable. I have one of those and had to reweld it twice. It cracked between the hangers in the top front and back. The nice part about them though is they fit in the first bay and can be covered over. However My mechanic and I are in agreement that if it cracks again we'll put in a Dakota cub 18 gal tank. He believes it won't be a huge deal.

......Mike

Just reread your last post nad the upside of the Wag tank is the STC and headerless. We got the one in it now, in, plumbed, and painted in three days.

 

[cubdriver2]

Mike I've got about 2200hrs in an 11 and alot of 6hr days on skis with the single tank. Even flew it to Brodhead from here one year. I used 2.5 gal cans that sat on the floor in front of the rear seat, even with a passenger. My EX 18-95 that I'm flying now has a single 18gl tank and extended baggage but I still like the weight of the gas closer to the center and keep it in the back seat. I like the pod idea best because you gain 2 things you need, space and gas.

Glenn

 

[bob turner]

I would get ahold of Biplanes LLC in Maine, and get options from them. I fly a J-3 with PA-11 wings, struts, and 12/18 gal system. The 337 was simply signed by an IA, which seems a bit less than kosher, but it works.

You should still have the header tank, and I believe Biplanes has an STC for that. You will be uncovering, but just one bay. The repair is almost trivial.

http://biplaneinvestments.com

 

[DENNY]

Mike you need to find a better IA. It is a bit of work in a covered wing but can be done, there has to be a few gray hair IA's around there that can get it done.
DENNY

 

[Steve Pierce]

Not sure if the Wag Aero or Clearance Witt (bi-Plane Investment) tanks cover the PA11 or not. Same TCDS as the J3. Got a Letter of Deviation from Steve Kracke at Atlee Dodge recently on an STC they have for the J3 that doesn't call out the PA11. The 12 gallon would not be that difficult to install. You can have the wing off in less than an hour. Slit and glue th fabric, it should stay tight since the ribs are all stitched. Pull tape at butt rib and #2 rib to give a place to glue your patch over the tank. Probably need a good FAA guy to approve the fuel system which should not be a big deal since it would be just like a PA18 but common sense and the FAA are not used in the same sentence much anymore.

 

[robertc]

Biplanes tank in PA11. I did it uncovered, but shouldn't be bad covered.

 

[tophand]

I couldn't think of the name of Biplanes last night, but they're sure looking like a better deal than the wag tanks.

.....Mike

 

[Steve Pierce]

But do they have the approvals and are they building tanks? Tried getting a PA tank a few years ago and no dice.

 

[robertc]

But do they have the approvals and are they building tanks? Tried getting a PA tank a few years ago and no dice.

I don't know if they are building, but I did receive the STC paperwork for my PA11 tank.

 

[tophand]

You're right that's the $64,000 question. I just checked my STC and The PA-11 is approved on the wag tank. They are not bad tanks and I may have just got one that was made on Monday morning. It seems like every tank company has had growing pains at one time or another.

......Mike

 

[mvivion]

Got a response to an email to biplanes, which indicates they have a PMA and STC for their tank in an 11. The tanks are designed for the J 3 but he said they wait for an order to attach the tube for the aileron cable, so they can adapt them to either plane.

Still looking for options.....anything else out there?

thanks for all the info so far...as always, you folks are very helpful.

MTV

 

[soyAnarchisto]

just put a wag tank in my plane right before this past weekends trip to Montana. Wag tank is 10.5 usable and will go in the first rib with only some massaging. I ordered and tried to buy a biplanes tank - but they delayed many, many weeks because of a re-design and subsequent FAA re-approval. They told me 3 weeks ago they could not ship my tank for 8 weeks - which put it way out of range for being done in time for Missouri Breaks. I ordered a wag tank and all plumbing from Aircraft spruce and my plane was flyable in under a week. My test flight was 1370nms round trip from Bouulder to Winifred and back.

Wag tank is lowe quality and has some fit issues - but it does go in under the fabric and is straightforward fabric repairs. Biplanes tank is 30-40% more expensive. Can't comment on the quality of biplanes since I've not seen it.

All my pics are over on j3-cub.com

Here's my test flight route:

 

[mvivion]

Interesting. He told me today on the phone that they could deliver a Biplanes tank in about ten days. Might have to be a little careful, I reckon.

MTV

 

[soyAnarchisto]

I have no reason to distrust what they say. Several folks on j3 recommend them highly like bob. I know they had to redesign the tanks and get new FAA approval but they didn't tell me why. I didn't push too hard, but the grapevine is out there. Not everyone is immune from leaking problems. My issue was delivery dates and cost. I could live with paying more for a better product but the schedule ended up being deciding factor for me. Early days for me with wag tank but I hope I don't have the issues tophand has had. Time will tell. So far so good.

 

[DENNY]

The one thing to consider is that non emergency plane mods are to be only done from NOV-JAN time frame!!! If the plane can fly DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!! There is a lot of summer/fall flying to be done and a plane in the hanger with the wing cut open is not something you need. Order the tank and STC now so it is ready in Nov for the change. Until than just get a few gallons of suckitup and keep flying I have seen a lot of one week projects go to 8-20 week nightmares.
DENNY

 

[T. Parsons]

I have a PA- 18 fuel system in my PA-11. Unless you are worried about the weight of the system it works, and will provide more range than you would ever want. With an 800 lb aircraft and full fuel your pilot weight and baggage would be limited to 196 lbs to be "legal". I have had missions effected by weather that the long duration flying time has worked to my advantage. The plane works fine short as well, when light on fuel. Tony

 

[bob turner]

I have 12 gals in the nose and 11gals in the wing. That's over four hours in the air. No way do I want to be in a Cub more than four hours, even with a relief tube.

You will be happier with the appearance of the Biplanes tank, unless Wag has discontinued the ribs on the top sheet.