Balanced Tail

[piperfan]

I currently have a PA-12 with the original tail on it (unbalanced). I would like to put a balanced tail on it to lighten the stick up a bit. I have a complete set of PA-22 tailfeathers and I wanted to know if they could be installed on a PA-12, and if so, is there an STC to do so? Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[PA12driver]

Piperfan,

I am not sure, but I seem to recall that the PA22 balanced tail is slightly smaller then that of a PA18. The PA18 tail is a requirement as a part of any of the STC"s that I am aware of for the increase in HP to 150 or more.

You might be well to contact Cub Crafters, or just look up all the STC's for Piper PA12's to see if there is an STC.

FA may be possible depending on your area and relationship of your IA and the FEDS?

Good Luck,

Tim

 

[fatcub]

Piperfan, I got the small tail feathers (pa-22) on my 12. I have the 150hp with the univair mount and stc. The airplane as you know is heavy with the stock tail in place, then add the 0-320 up front and it's a omg heavy with the airplane loaded.

Once people started laughing at me because my right arm was so much bigger than my left I decided to put on the pa-22's. Oh man, it's like power steering! The only caution is that if you plan on any mod's like extended baggage or any 0-320 upgrade besides univairs stc (univair uses a real short mount thats positions the engine closer to the firewall), Sell your feathers and buy the 18 feathers. You'll almost break even.

Remember you have to upgrade your trim system to the double grooved pulley style regardless of your choices. The balanced tail will have there way with a single groove pulley.

Let me put it to you this way, I'm selling a set of pa-22 tail feathers with fresh poly-fibre that have been bead blasted and powder coated if your intrested.

Scott

 

[piperfan]

Thanks for all of the info, guys. I'm a bit new to world of aviation (I just hit the 100 hour mark a few weeks ago!!), so please forgive me if I seem to ask alot of dumb questions. This is a great site and has been very insightful and helpful with the upkeep of my stock 12. Thanks again!

 

[SuperCub MD]

Some feel that the 22 tail is the perfect match for a 12, that the 18 maybe to big, possibly doing that delta wing thing..., but this is just opinion and rumor. If anyone has a back to back 22 to 18 tail on a 12 comparison, it would be interesting to hear about it.

 

[fatcub]

It would be intresting to test the two different tails. On my 12 I have plenty of attitude athority on approach and flare, but when I'm fully fueled and light on the baggage I occationally will hit the stop on the jackscrew when trimed for straight and level cruise. I'm not sure the bigger tail will fix that or not?
Scott.

 

[PA12driver]

MD and others, I have a std. PA18 tail on my 12 and I usually fly the plane with 18 or less fuel and myself on board. When landing in a no wind situation, (trimmed hands off) Power off, If I fly the plane at say 10mph over full flap stall speed, when I round out to flare I 'will" run out of elevator. I have practiced and practiced, and have concluded that I pretty much overcome this by trimming nose up (considerable stick pressure and then I have a little better control at flare. Still not liking this and finding myself having to catch the sink rate with a burst of power, I started loading the plane aft with some survival gear, tiedowns, and the like. (I actually weighed all the crap that I had with me and it came to 55 lbs. with that load spread from the back of front seat, then about 10 lbs under the rear seat and then the rest in the baggage compartment, and finally about 10 lbs in the extreme aft compartment, I could leave the trim at near nuetral and fly the plane to touch down. Even better I now if at all possible (approach with some power (about 1300rpm) full flaps and ajust sink with slight pitch changes. Power off approach speed at about 38-42mph. (My mini 206 type approach) or "fat ass cub approach".

Ok MD now that I gave away my secrets, expect Wayne Mackey to be building my a set of slats,and some proprietary Spoilers, to go along with my laughing gas inhanced 0320, with shaved jugs, and ported and polished intake exhaust, and the pilot to be on a "diet" for 40 days!

Sorry for the long post?
:oops: Tim

 

[PA12Tray]

12 Tail Feathers

When I rebuilt my 12 I went from straight from the O-235-C1 to the O-360-A4P engine (108 hp to 180 hp) and needed to change my tail feathers. I was able to obtain approval through a 337, for that modification. Most of the STC's for the change in tail feathers are for when you upgrade to a 150 hp, and because I skipped over the O-320, I could not locate a STC for changing to balanced tailfeathers.

 

[Wayne Mackey]

J3 PA18 PA22 tail

If you take a set of j3 tail feathers and cut off the right amount of stabilizer and add
it to the elevater you have a pa22 tail , same size. In doing so you have a larger
stick control area, and a smaller trim area. If you do much with a big tail load go
for the 18 tail. As Tim said in slow flight without power on you will have trouble
holding the nose up on flair when loaded light. fly safe Wayne

 

[FlipFlop]

Re: J3 PA18 PA22 tail

If you take a set of j3 tail feathers and cut off the right amount of stabilizer and add
it to the elevater you have a pa22 tail , same size. In doing so you have a larger
stick control area, and a smaller trim area. If you do much with a big tail load go
for the 18 tail. As Tim said in slow flight without power on you will have trouble
holding the nose up on flair when loaded light. fly safe Wayne

Wayne, you lost me (not hard to do)... Are you saying that with a stock (not balanced) J-3 tail you have more elevator authority?... My nose heavy Cuby has an unbalanced tail and when alone, I run out of nose up trim... I normally fly short approach at 38-40 mph and the elevator isn't very effective (takes power to flare), if I bump the approach speed up to 45-50, I have more elevator authority... Hope all this makes sense...

 

[Jerry Burr]

Tail Mod.

(Cut off the stabilizer and add it to the elevator.) Then it is identical to the 20/22. If you have the parts it's cheaper than buying the 20/22. If you look close at mine, that is what we did. :lol: Jerry.

 

[Crash]

Tail Feathers

PA-18 tail feathers are one of the least expensive mods you can do to a PA-12. Every PA-12 and 14 I know of with a 150/160/180 hp engine has PA-18 tail feathers. It's one of the "must do" mods for the 12 and 14. Others are PA-14/18 flap system, PA-18 trim system, PA-18 landing gear, 150/160 hp engine, etc.. Crash

 

[PA12driver]

If I had the money I would add more elevator and build the jack screw like Charley does to give some more support to the Stabilizer The tail on the PA12 works a whole lot harder! (It ain't a supercub for that reason!) But use fat guys do fit in it nicely and I do carry all the crap with me inside, reasonable dry! I will post some photos (soon)of a really nice PA12 with an 180 hp that was just certified (all done on Field approvals!) Weighs 1200 with the 30' streaks and paint. I haven't flown it but it sure is pretty, with a lot of nice features.

Tim

 

[piperfan]

Ok, let me give some background as to what I was going to do. I currently have a flying stock PA-12. I just purchased a PA-16 project (needed the extra room for the kids!) that had a bad set of unbalanced tail surfaces. I then came across a reasonably priced set of PA-22 tail surfaces, and since the plan was to upgrade the 12 at some point after the 16 was completed, I figured that I could install the PA-22 tail on the 12 and use the 12's tail on the 16. Confusing? But, thanks to all of the great info I have found here, I think the best option is to put the 22 tail on the 16 and purchase a set of 18 tail surfaces for the 12. Thanks again!

 

[Russ Kaye]

Sullivan's

Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using the Sullivan tailfeathers over the PA-18?