In the process of installing the B&C oil filter adapter on a pa-18-0320.The filter (48108) will not clear the firewall mounted voltage regulator.Has anyone else run into this problem? Seems like a big project to move the voltage regulator? This is a stock cub so it seems that the voltage regulator clearance should have been considered in the STC? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Jim
B&C oil filter adapter (revisited)
- Thread starter BIGFOOT
- Start date
cubflyer18
Registered User
Plymouth, IN C65
Ditto BigFoot's question, I too have the big old black voltage regulator off center to the left on the firewall. Any answers?
Jeff
Jeff
Lawn Dart
Registered User
Las Vegas, Nv
Check out the really long thread in modifications-spin on oil filters
http://www.supercub.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=656
http://www.supercub.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=656
S2D
MEMBER
Montana
How about someone posting an analysis on the lycoming oil system and what happens when metal starts coming off in certain areas and where in relation to the whole system the filter is.
ie: the oil is picked up in the sump and then:
1. the oil goes thru the filter first and then to the pump gears or
2. the oil goes thru the oil pump gears and on to the filter.
hence when metal starts coming off a bearing it
A- goes thru the whole system then to the sump then to the oil pump gears then to the filter
and so on
you get the idea.
my reason is:
when is the filter gonna save you and when is the filter just a deposit for the metal.
any takers????
ie: the oil is picked up in the sump and then:
1. the oil goes thru the filter first and then to the pump gears or
2. the oil goes thru the oil pump gears and on to the filter.
hence when metal starts coming off a bearing it
A- goes thru the whole system then to the sump then to the oil pump gears then to the filter
and so on
you get the idea.
my reason is:
when is the filter gonna save you and when is the filter just a deposit for the metal.
any takers????
SuperCub MD
Registered User
Collins, Wisconsin
Oil is picked up in the sump through the suction screen, and pulled directly into the pump. Than through the oil cooler, or thermo-bypass valve, if it is installed and open. Than through the pressure screen or filter if a filter is installed. It than lubes some accessory drives before leaving the accessory case and going through the oil press relief valve. It than enters the crankcase oil galleys and lubes the mains, rods, and tappets, through the tappets and down the pushrods to lube the heads.
Any engine making metal will deposit the hard metals in the soft wearing surfaces, like main bearings and piston skirts. The next time you pull a cylinder off, look at the piston skirt. It will have very shinny little spots on it if something in the engine is wearing, (like cam/lifters spalling). This is the hard metal flakes embedded in the soft aluminum of the piston. If you see this, I will garentee that the main bearings have hard metal embedded in them.
Any engine making metal will deposit the hard metals in the soft wearing surfaces, like main bearings and piston skirts. The next time you pull a cylinder off, look at the piston skirt. It will have very shinny little spots on it if something in the engine is wearing, (like cam/lifters spalling). This is the hard metal flakes embedded in the soft aluminum of the piston. If you see this, I will garentee that the main bearings have hard metal embedded in them.
S2D
MEMBER
Montana
ok
now my outlook on this. Is everyone putting these filters on their airplane to save the engine from damage when things start coming apart, to go the extra 25 hrs before oil changes or just to make it easier to check screen/change filter at oil changes?
Things usually don't tear up all at once. How much do either save the engine if it goes thru the rest of the system anyway.
If your lifters start wearing out from rust pits, you're gonna get a little metal in the screen at first and maybe just a little metal for quite a while till the thing finally wears down. If its just tiny amounts are you gonna catch it. The good thing about filters is they have lots of surface- the bad thing about filters is they have lots of surface to inspect. If you are going to the filter system are you gonna disassemble that filter and inspect it properly looking for those couple minute particles of steel? Bad thing about a screen is they have little surface area- good thing about screens is you can look at one little area and see if you have metal.
Problem with both systems is if you are just getting a minute amount of metal each oil change are you gonna do anything about it or just hope it goes away until your engine wears out.
I can see by the # of people on this board talking about their filter systems that I am in a very minority when it comes to the filter vs screen issue.
now my outlook on this. Is everyone putting these filters on their airplane to save the engine from damage when things start coming apart, to go the extra 25 hrs before oil changes or just to make it easier to check screen/change filter at oil changes?
Things usually don't tear up all at once. How much do either save the engine if it goes thru the rest of the system anyway.
If your lifters start wearing out from rust pits, you're gonna get a little metal in the screen at first and maybe just a little metal for quite a while till the thing finally wears down. If its just tiny amounts are you gonna catch it. The good thing about filters is they have lots of surface- the bad thing about filters is they have lots of surface to inspect. If you are going to the filter system are you gonna disassemble that filter and inspect it properly looking for those couple minute particles of steel? Bad thing about a screen is they have little surface area- good thing about screens is you can look at one little area and see if you have metal.
Problem with both systems is if you are just getting a minute amount of metal each oil change are you gonna do anything about it or just hope it goes away until your engine wears out.
I can see by the # of people on this board talking about their filter systems that I am in a very minority when it comes to the filter vs screen issue.
Lawn Dart
Registered User
Las Vegas, Nv
SD2
First, just so happens that this morning, I was looking at the oil system in the overhaul manual and in my opinion, MD gave a good (and accurate) description of the system.
I agree with your thoughts about inspecting the screen vs the filter element. It?s a lot more time consuming to inspect the filter. But for me, I don?t mind doing it, so far. As an option, you can send the filter (or just the element or just the material from the screen) in with your oil sample and have it looked at, under a microscope, for an additional $25.00 or so.
Let me say right here and now, that the rest of this is my opinion, OK?
On the plus side for the screen, all of the oil has to go through it. That, by it self, gives it a pretty darn good chance of catching all of the part numbers that go through it. MD, am I right about that?
On the down side for the filter, it has a pressure bypass that opens at 8-10 psi of differential pressure between the inlet and the outlet of the filter. My concern here is when the oil is cold and really thick, or obviously if the filter is plugged up, it?s not going to go through the filter medium. It?s just going to be recirculated with out being filtered or screened.
On the down side for the screen, it has no ability to ?clean? the oil as it goes through the engine, lap after lap after lap...it can only ?strain out? the bigger pieces. Obviously, that?s a plus for the filter and was the selling point for me. My hopes are that by catching as much of the little micron size stuff as is possible, the engine is going to last longer (get the grit out of the oil).
As for the bit about extending the oil changes to 50 hrs, I keep hearing that, but haven?t found the documentation yet, maybe someone could point me in that direction.
I do have to say that it sure is a whole lot easier and cleaner to change the filter then it is to remove the screen.
Neither system is perfect, nor are they a substitute for an ?element inspection? and oil analysis at every oil change. But I got to ask, how many wrenchers have torn a motor apart just because an oil analysis came back with a slightly high reading, don?t we all wait til we can read the part numbers in the screen or until it?s knocking?. Maybe it?s happening a lot more then I?m aware of?
Another one that I heard, was that it was cheaper to run a filter then it is to run a screen, here?s my take on that. Lets assume that both engines go to TBO (2000 hrs), both are topping off with 8qts of oil and the filtered engine is changing oil every 50 hrs instead of 25.
Screened engine:
Oil change every 25hrs plus Oil analysis
8 qts oil @ $20.00 plus sample @ $12.95 X 80 changes = $2636.00
Filtered Engine:
Oil change every 50hrs plus oil analysis plus filter
8 ½ qts oil (you got to fill up that filter) @ $21.25 plus sample @ $12.95 plus filter @ $13.90 X 40 changes = $1924.00
But wait!, what did you put that filter on?
(1) B&C Oil Filter Adaptor @ $468.00 + $1924.00 = $2392.00
That?s a savings of $244.00 over the life of an engine or $0.122 cents/hr. or @ 100 hrs/year = $12.20/year. Not enough to buy another oil filter but....Eureka....I finally found the funds to support my beer dependency!
I hope I don?t ever hear again ?how much cheaper it is to run a filter?.
It?s the cleansing effect (or myth) of the filter that sold me.
Sorry about the long post.
First, just so happens that this morning, I was looking at the oil system in the overhaul manual and in my opinion, MD gave a good (and accurate) description of the system.
I agree with your thoughts about inspecting the screen vs the filter element. It?s a lot more time consuming to inspect the filter. But for me, I don?t mind doing it, so far. As an option, you can send the filter (or just the element or just the material from the screen) in with your oil sample and have it looked at, under a microscope, for an additional $25.00 or so.
Let me say right here and now, that the rest of this is my opinion, OK?
On the plus side for the screen, all of the oil has to go through it. That, by it self, gives it a pretty darn good chance of catching all of the part numbers that go through it. MD, am I right about that?
On the down side for the filter, it has a pressure bypass that opens at 8-10 psi of differential pressure between the inlet and the outlet of the filter. My concern here is when the oil is cold and really thick, or obviously if the filter is plugged up, it?s not going to go through the filter medium. It?s just going to be recirculated with out being filtered or screened.
On the down side for the screen, it has no ability to ?clean? the oil as it goes through the engine, lap after lap after lap...it can only ?strain out? the bigger pieces. Obviously, that?s a plus for the filter and was the selling point for me. My hopes are that by catching as much of the little micron size stuff as is possible, the engine is going to last longer (get the grit out of the oil).
As for the bit about extending the oil changes to 50 hrs, I keep hearing that, but haven?t found the documentation yet, maybe someone could point me in that direction.
I do have to say that it sure is a whole lot easier and cleaner to change the filter then it is to remove the screen.
Neither system is perfect, nor are they a substitute for an ?element inspection? and oil analysis at every oil change. But I got to ask, how many wrenchers have torn a motor apart just because an oil analysis came back with a slightly high reading, don?t we all wait til we can read the part numbers in the screen or until it?s knocking?. Maybe it?s happening a lot more then I?m aware of?
Another one that I heard, was that it was cheaper to run a filter then it is to run a screen, here?s my take on that. Lets assume that both engines go to TBO (2000 hrs), both are topping off with 8qts of oil and the filtered engine is changing oil every 50 hrs instead of 25.
Screened engine:
Oil change every 25hrs plus Oil analysis
8 qts oil @ $20.00 plus sample @ $12.95 X 80 changes = $2636.00
Filtered Engine:
Oil change every 50hrs plus oil analysis plus filter
8 ½ qts oil (you got to fill up that filter) @ $21.25 plus sample @ $12.95 plus filter @ $13.90 X 40 changes = $1924.00
But wait!, what did you put that filter on?
(1) B&C Oil Filter Adaptor @ $468.00 + $1924.00 = $2392.00
That?s a savings of $244.00 over the life of an engine or $0.122 cents/hr. or @ 100 hrs/year = $12.20/year. Not enough to buy another oil filter but....Eureka....I finally found the funds to support my beer dependency!
I hope I don?t ever hear again ?how much cheaper it is to run a filter?.
It?s the cleansing effect (or myth) of the filter that sold me.
Sorry about the long post.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I still have a screen. haven't seen fit to spend $500 + on the filter adapter. Have installed many filter adapters thou. I always cut the filter open and spread out the pleats and run a magnet over each one. A messy and time consuming job. They say you should rinse the paper in varsol and filter out the particles. I also use oil analysis. I found spalling cam and lifters on O-470 in Cessna 180 on oil analysis and never found anything in the screen. It is all about a trend in my opinion. Just pulled the screen on a C-90 and found one piece of steel. It has a filter adapter but they left the screen in too. Who knows when the last time the screen was cleaned. New A/C to me. I removed the screen, cut the filter and couldn't find anything abnormal. I did send off an oil sample and will check again in 10-15 hrs. Cautious I guess. On a Lycoming I pull the suction screen every other oil change. If the engine is making metal it will show up there first. I have seen these engines run with metal through out the entire system, indicator was high oil temps. At tear down it was scary but the thing just kept running. I don't think the engine will quit if something is wearing out.I think the idea is tosee the warning signs before you have a catastrophic failure. To me good clean oil is the best insurance against wear and in the airplane world oil is definately cheap.
texmex
MEMBER
Hanging Rock, Australia.
Hi All,
Back to BIGFOOT's question re the voltage regulator. I'm about to purchase an angled adapter assembly and have a Delco voltage regulator that will have to go. I'm hoping you''ll say that I'll have to purchase a B&C regulator and the holes match up with the Delco. I know aeroplanes are never that simple.
Cavy I couldn't get the photos from the previous thread, they may be time ex. Could you email them to me denmexmac@bigpond.com
Thanks Texmex.
PS: I've seen SKYWAGON185's great photos. Super Cub Cafe, ECI oil filter adapter. It may be a tight fit but it appears to work.
Back to BIGFOOT's question re the voltage regulator. I'm about to purchase an angled adapter assembly and have a Delco voltage regulator that will have to go. I'm hoping you''ll say that I'll have to purchase a B&C regulator and the holes match up with the Delco. I know aeroplanes are never that simple.
Cavy I couldn't get the photos from the previous thread, they may be time ex. Could you email them to me denmexmac@bigpond.com
Thanks Texmex.
PS: I've seen SKYWAGON185's great photos. Super Cub Cafe, ECI oil filter adapter. It may be a tight fit but it appears to work.
Fortysix12
Registered User
RanchAero Grand Vista, Brooksville
As I recall I installed one on my 94. I don't remember a problem. I do remember it being tight up don't recall moving anthing. Maybe N4159S is lurking and could send a picture. You out there Sam.
fobjob
MEMBER
Salt Lake City, Utah
Go to Zeftronics' web site and find a replacement electronic voltage regulator for whatever you have (alternator or generator) and mount it somewhere else....
www.zeftronics.com/
www.zeftronics.com/
NDRII
MEMBER
Back in No. VA again
In mounting mine where it is, using just the two mounting holes, was the only way to avoid drilling into the vent box.
That location is as best, I think, on that side to be able to see the diagnostic lights on the regulator, still be able to swing the engine and get to the magneto on the right side when necessary without swinging the engine..
That location is as best, I think, on that side to be able to see the diagnostic lights on the regulator, still be able to swing the engine and get to the magneto on the right side when necessary without swinging the engine..
texmex
MEMBER
Hanging Rock, Australia.
I've just purchased a B&C oil filter adapter, vern-a-therm plug and probe adapter. But speaking to them I am unable to purchase the 45* oil line fitting.
Does anyone have the part number for this fitting? I hope I can get this through Aircraft Spruce.
Regards Denis.
Does anyone have the part number for this fitting? I hope I can get this through Aircraft Spruce.
Regards Denis.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
AN823-8D is the normal size for the oil cooler fitting. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an823.php
irishfield
Registered User
Penetanguishene, Ontario Canada
I think I have a whole tray box of steel AN823-8's on the shelf... will look tomorrow.
irishfield
Registered User
Penetanguishene, Ontario Canada
Yah well Steve maybe... I forgot to look! 
texmex
MEMBER
Hanging Rock, Australia.
Final Question (I hope)
I've just received the B&C angled oil filter adapter, and what a beautiful piece of work it is !
For the changeover, I'll have to remove the rigid steel oil lines and replace them with flexible hoses. I ran a piece of string along the oil lines to measure their length and I'm just wanting to check my figures.
I've got one at 41" and the other at 55". Does anyone have part numbers for oil lines so I can be sure of my figures?
Standard Super Cub oil cooler as per photo.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=29322[img]
[url]http://www.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=29323[/url][img][img]
I've just received the B&C angled oil filter adapter, and what a beautiful piece of work it is !
For the changeover, I'll have to remove the rigid steel oil lines and replace them with flexible hoses. I ran a piece of string along the oil lines to measure their length and I'm just wanting to check my figures.
I've got one at 41" and the other at 55". Does anyone have part numbers for oil lines so I can be sure of my figures?
Standard Super Cub oil cooler as per photo.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=29322[img]
[url]http://www.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=29323[/url][img][img]
texmex
MEMBER
Hanging Rock, Australia.
Interesting reading this old thread on the B&C oil filter adaptor. It was 7 years ago I changed the old screen to the B&C adaptor and no complaints. It worked beautifully and looked cool. So much easier not having to swing that engine to change the screen filter.
Reading my post above, I remember I was nervous ordering the Teflon oil lines as they were so expensive. I ended up getting some time ex ones of a Metroliner, fitting one end of them and running them along the intended path, marking and cutting them to measure. The new ones fitted perfectly.
But what brings me back to this thread is I now have an IO-470-R in a Cessna 180 that has no spin on filter. Just the old rock screen.
Is there anything to know about changing out this on the Continental IO-470-R or is it the same as the Lycombing 360? Any PIREPS?
Reading my post above, I remember I was nervous ordering the Teflon oil lines as they were so expensive. I ended up getting some time ex ones of a Metroliner, fitting one end of them and running them along the intended path, marking and cutting them to measure. The new ones fitted perfectly.
But what brings me back to this thread is I now have an IO-470-R in a Cessna 180 that has no spin on filter. Just the old rock screen.
Is there anything to know about changing out this on the Continental IO-470-R or is it the same as the Lycombing 360? Any PIREPS?
