Clipped Wing Cub
- Thread starter Gary Ward
- Start date
Jeez Gary, how many more stray kittens are you going to bring home?
Well, Perry, It's like this: I found out about this J3 Cub that has been sitting disassembled in a hangar for the last 20 years. It was flying until the annual revealed the usual corrosion in the lower longerons. That was fixed then the owner stopped the work and had the aircraft "deregistered" and put in "destroyed" status. (Why, I do not understand). My offer to purchase the project is contingent upon getting it re-certified.
So, the short answer is "How can you not try to bring a J-3 back to life?"
There is an alternate answer: "Can you have too many airplanes?"
It had an A-75 which I do not want. Wanting to go with C-85 or C-90.
Since posting this, I searched and found there has been a lot of favorable discussion on this on the supercub site. Now I just have to find out what is involved to make it into a CWC.
Gary
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Gary
How about giving me a call or stop by Newnan if you get down this way. Can shed a little light on the CWCs. Is this a certificated CWC or an experimental? .......... If airworthyness was "surrendered" that particular airplane is done. Registration isn't a big deal but just a hassle. I have brought several "destroyed" airplanes back to life
Wayne
How about giving me a call or stop by Newnan if you get down this way. Can shed a little light on the CWCs. Is this a certificated CWC or an experimental? .......... If airworthyness was "surrendered" that particular airplane is done. Registration isn't a big deal but just a hassle. I have brought several "destroyed" airplanes back to life
Wayne
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PerryB
FRIEND
Chico, CA
If you can get the registration resolved, it should be a fun project. With a stroked 85 and a little head/induction work, you should get a solid 100 hp with a lot of torque. It would be a goin' machine (somehow I envision you putting smoke on it...). I've always wanted to fly a hopped up CWC. How's the 12?
The 12 is doing great and I now have my "New" Super Cub up and running and it is doing great as well. So, do I sell the 12 or what? I'm going with "or what" for now. It is a really nice one and performs almost as well as the Super Cub.
I'm leaning now with going CWC with the J3 and keeping it certified. If I can just find an engine.
I'm leaning now with going CWC with the J3 and keeping it certified. If I can just find an engine.
PerryB
FRIEND
Chico, CA
A nice 12 is a delight. With proper CG and weight, a 150+ pa12 with gear/tires/flaps/prop does 90 plus percent an 18. Not an 18 but very close. I love mine. With it's blend of weight/balance /power it's rockin' machine. EW 1095 - CG 12.95 - 150 w/good prop..... I'm very proud of it.
It's not hard to get a destroyed/deregistrated aircraft reregistered. The FAA will give you a list of items that will need to be completed. I paid a title company in OKC $50 to hand the FAA the paperwork after my project was finished and I had the new registration in hand in two weeks. The title company went over my paperwork to make sure it was correct. $50 well spent.
Perry,
You do have a very nice 12. I reviewed the emails you sent me 2 years ago.
My 12 weighed 1135 at 11.11" with 8.50 tires. I have not calculated the weight since adding 31" tires and the AOSS suspension. My 12 is rather heavy in pitch and takes a lot of trim but I see I have a considerably more forward cg than you do so that might splain it.
I'll send more info in an email
Gary
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Gary
The Clip Wing is on the TCDS now and STC not needed. Not a lot of folks know that...... I have a copy of that manual if you want to look it over. I pertains to the wood spar only. I know the metal spars have been done but I have never done one.
*625. Clipped wing installation. 40 ½ inches removed from root of each wing in accordance with Reed Aircraft Modification Manual dated October 7,1953.
(Earl C. Reed, Kansas City, Missouri
i). The following restrictions apply:
(1)C. G. Range (+10.9) to (+19.4)
(2)Maximum Weight: 1100 lb.
(3)Items 311C(1) through 311C (6), and 311C (8) engines only with McCauley 1A90-CF,
1A90-CH, and 1B90-CM fixed pitch metal propellers only at following static r.p.m. and
diameter limits: 2250 to 2150 and 71.0 to 69.5 inches, respectively (No other tolerances permitted).
(4)Required placard in view of pilot:"Equipment with Reed Clipped Wing"
Original manual limits the engines to 65 -75HP
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Thanks Wayne. But what if I want to go with a C90 or a C-85 or a C85 with the O-200 crank conversion. Will that be a problem?
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Get a field approval to install the engine of your choice with a 75 hp limit placard and a red line painted on the tach at the rpm which produces 75 hp. The pilot is responsible to honor the limits. :lol: I have been involved in a red line limit in a -18 to 150 hp in one example and another to limit a 350 hp engine to 300 hp.
Even though the TC doesn't mention it, sometimes the requirements are a horsepower limit of "maximum continuous power". Continuous being the key word. This is how some manufacturers get away with using 180 hp engines in "light sport" airplanes.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I rebuilt a Clipped Wing for Todd Petterson of Katmi 182 fame. His has some interesting paperwork approving the O-200. I can get you the N number so you could request the records from the FAA.
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Gary
I rebuilt a rollover fuselage for a CWC that belonged to the guy that used to own Reno racer "Dago Red" last year. It had an O-200 on it but I didnt see the paperwork on it as I only rebuilt the fuselage. .............. but the aircraft is near Charlotte NC and I might can get info on it. I have ran into this before on another with a C-85 years ago. I talked with a guy in the northeast that had the STC for the O-200 in a J3 back then..... is supposed to be good for the CWC also. Is $400. I looked for some info on this and found this thread from 2014 from this site.......... I copy/pasted some good info below..........
Longwinglover
12-16-2014, 01:42 PM
AkroRob,
I owned a Clipped wing J3 with a C-90 for over 10 years. You probably already know most of what I'm going to say, but I'll say it anyway. LOL !!
The Reed conversion only covers the 65 and 75 hp Continental engines. The Reed conversion also limits gross weight to 1100lbs. Of course all of this is detrimental to usefulness of the airplane.
ScootAir has an STC for clipped wing Cubs that allows 85 and 90 hp Continental engines. The STC raises the gross weight to 1220lbs (when properly modified to proper configuration).
The Univair STC is the only multiple use application of an O-200 on a J3 (clipped or otherwise). Legal O-200 (100hp) Field Approval (337) installations on J3's, while there are some, are few and far between. JimC/Rick Rice was one of those. Most of the 337's I have seen, limit (by dubious means) the O-200 installed on a J3 to 90 hp.
The above attached back of a 337 is questionable in value to me. Apparently the modified aircraft (N42527) either no longer exists or has changed registration. As stated the engine was derated to 90 hp (by unstated legal means). You don't have a copy of the 337 for N23375, so you don't know what was done to install the O-200 in that aircraft. (Just the fact that it was apparently done will not satisfy today's FAA.) The "installation was done in accordance with STC SA880SW" which does not currently exist in the FAA STC database. It may be a one time STC that is now in the inactive files, but being a one time STC is not transferrable to another aircraft. Beyond all that, this is only the back of the 337. It would be much more viable to the FAA if you had the front of the form with an inspector's signature.
A clipped wing J3 (even with a C90) is a mediocre at best aerobatic airplane. Search online for articles (3) by Giles Henderson who flew a clipped wing in competition. His articles are the best information I have ever seen.
Having said all that, in todays FAA world your easiest path is either a C85 (stroker) or C90 installed via the ScootAir STC. If you truly have an FAA inspector that will help you get a Field Approval for an O-200 in a J3 (clipped or not) in today's environment, treat him like a most precious commodity. Send him gift cards to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse on a monthly basis LOL !!
Good luck in your endevour,
John Scott
Remember that an O-200 converted to 90 hp is a C90-14 (Lord mounts) and not on the TC or in the ScootAir STC. But rebuilding your C-85 with the crank out of your O-200 is still a C-85 (but with 97 hp) and is on the TC and in the ScootAir STC. Prop choice with the 85 is better too!
Give me a call...... I talk a little better than I type. I also got a field approval on a door/door hinge mod that gets rid of that ugly/weak cut up door on the CWC if you happen to build this Cub.
I rebuilt a rollover fuselage for a CWC that belonged to the guy that used to own Reno racer "Dago Red" last year. It had an O-200 on it but I didnt see the paperwork on it as I only rebuilt the fuselage. .............. but the aircraft is near Charlotte NC and I might can get info on it. I have ran into this before on another with a C-85 years ago. I talked with a guy in the northeast that had the STC for the O-200 in a J3 back then..... is supposed to be good for the CWC also. Is $400. I looked for some info on this and found this thread from 2014 from this site.......... I copy/pasted some good info below..........
Longwinglover
12-16-2014, 01:42 PM
AkroRob,
I owned a Clipped wing J3 with a C-90 for over 10 years. You probably already know most of what I'm going to say, but I'll say it anyway. LOL !!
The Reed conversion only covers the 65 and 75 hp Continental engines. The Reed conversion also limits gross weight to 1100lbs. Of course all of this is detrimental to usefulness of the airplane.
ScootAir has an STC for clipped wing Cubs that allows 85 and 90 hp Continental engines. The STC raises the gross weight to 1220lbs (when properly modified to proper configuration).
The Univair STC is the only multiple use application of an O-200 on a J3 (clipped or otherwise). Legal O-200 (100hp) Field Approval (337) installations on J3's, while there are some, are few and far between. JimC/Rick Rice was one of those. Most of the 337's I have seen, limit (by dubious means) the O-200 installed on a J3 to 90 hp.
The above attached back of a 337 is questionable in value to me. Apparently the modified aircraft (N42527) either no longer exists or has changed registration. As stated the engine was derated to 90 hp (by unstated legal means). You don't have a copy of the 337 for N23375, so you don't know what was done to install the O-200 in that aircraft. (Just the fact that it was apparently done will not satisfy today's FAA.) The "installation was done in accordance with STC SA880SW" which does not currently exist in the FAA STC database. It may be a one time STC that is now in the inactive files, but being a one time STC is not transferrable to another aircraft. Beyond all that, this is only the back of the 337. It would be much more viable to the FAA if you had the front of the form with an inspector's signature.
A clipped wing J3 (even with a C90) is a mediocre at best aerobatic airplane. Search online for articles (3) by Giles Henderson who flew a clipped wing in competition. His articles are the best information I have ever seen.
Having said all that, in todays FAA world your easiest path is either a C85 (stroker) or C90 installed via the ScootAir STC. If you truly have an FAA inspector that will help you get a Field Approval for an O-200 in a J3 (clipped or not) in today's environment, treat him like a most precious commodity. Send him gift cards to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse on a monthly basis LOL !!
Good luck in your endevour,
John Scott
Remember that an O-200 converted to 90 hp is a C90-14 (Lord mounts) and not on the TC or in the ScootAir STC. But rebuilding your C-85 with the crank out of your O-200 is still a C-85 (but with 97 hp) and is on the TC and in the ScootAir STC. Prop choice with the 85 is better too!
Give me a call...... I talk a little better than I type. I also got a field approval on a door/door hinge mod that gets rid of that ugly/weak cut up door on the CWC if you happen to build this Cub.
Wayne, Thanks. This is good info. I got away from this for a bit but am back on it. The project is already underway but I still have to decide on Standard v Clip Wing and Certified v Experimental.
I am buying a freshly rebuilt C85-12 with a new O-200 crank, new flow balanced cyls, new carb and new mags.
I will give you a call later.
Gary
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Gary
IF you go experimental you need to call or stop by me before you do the wings/struts!
Wayne
IF you go experimental you need to call or stop by me before you do the wings/struts!
Wayne
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
That's better than grabbing your own ankles!
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Don't know about a C85, but a friend of mine was hunting a C90 or O200 and wasn't having much luck.
Found an O200 in Canada, bought it & had it shipped down (with some hassles re duty, etc) and it turned out to be junk.
He was hoping to find a mid-time engine, but after a lot of looking finally found a freshly OH'd O200 and bought it.
Runs good though, and really made a performer out of his Luscombe.
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Hi Gary
PM sent
PM sent
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
I see this comment in a cited article from a few posts back.
A clipped wing J3 (even with a C90) is a mediocre at best aerobatic airplane.
IMHO a clipwing Cub might not be your best bet if you want to do hardcore aerobatics,
but for a fun little grass strip-type airplane that you can loop or roll it would seem to be a great choice.
Two seats and a classic to boot, and being uncommon isn't a bad thing either.
I'd love to own one.
A clipped wing J3 (even with a C90) is a mediocre at best aerobatic airplane.
IMHO a clipwing Cub might not be your best bet if you want to do hardcore aerobatics,
but for a fun little grass strip-type airplane that you can loop or roll it would seem to be a great choice.
Two seats and a classic to boot, and being uncommon isn't a bad thing either.
I'd love to own one.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
bob turner
Registered User
Wayne - are you the guy who will do Marie-Claire's fuselage?
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
No, not familiar
bob turner
Registered User
She mentioned an expert at Newnan. The Cub is in Zebulon/Concord.
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Bob
I did one for Nathan Rounds in Zebulon a couple/few years back. He was building it for some gal over that way. I actually did it twice! First time was the restoration and the next year I had to do it again as the result of a "mini tornado". Was at Nathan's hangar, beat up four airplanes including this Cub, damaged 3 of Nathan's airplanes and they were IN the hangar. Cub was half in an half out and got spun into the others. Ha, don't know about that expert part ............ could be someone else!!
I did one for Nathan Rounds in Zebulon a couple/few years back. He was building it for some gal over that way. I actually did it twice! First time was the restoration and the next year I had to do it again as the result of a "mini tornado". Was at Nathan's hangar, beat up four airplanes including this Cub, damaged 3 of Nathan's airplanes and they were IN the hangar. Cub was half in an half out and got spun into the others. Ha, don't know about that expert part ............ could be someone else!!
bob turner
Registered User
I will check. I knew Doug, and spent an afternoon long ago ferrying cans of dope from Rounds' to Whifferdill, 5 miles west. Never met Nathan. I bet I landed on six grass fields in and around Zebulon, all Delta pilot strips.
My fuselage needs work on the left rear spar attach point, and a re-formed right strut attach fitting. Should be trivial for a Clip-wing Cub guy with a rosebud. And an L-4 birdcage. My original thought was to run it to Steve Pierce's place. Marie-Claire is the daughter of my life-long friend Phil, and she owns his L-4 . I helped him find it in 1966.
My fuselage needs work on the left rear spar attach point, and a re-formed right strut attach fitting. Should be trivial for a Clip-wing Cub guy with a rosebud. And an L-4 birdcage. My original thought was to run it to Steve Pierce's place. Marie-Claire is the daughter of my life-long friend Phil, and she owns his L-4 . I helped him find it in 1966.
Southern Aero
SPONSOR
kcco/1ga2
Ha, you mean Cap'n Grumps?? Thats how most around here know Doug! That gal's name rang a bell and I remembered getting this from the RAF.....
http://mailchi.mp/theraf/our-chance-to-add-an-airfield-using-a-little-sweat-equity?e=552297b631
....... Her name was in the email........ looks like it is real close to Round's place. Dont think I have ever landed there tho. You are right about grass strips everywhere in this area. Most were started by Delta pilots years ago ........... big ATL base
http://mailchi.mp/theraf/our-chance-to-add-an-airfield-using-a-little-sweat-equity?e=552297b631
....... Her name was in the email........ looks like it is real close to Round's place. Dont think I have ever landed there tho. You are right about grass strips everywhere in this area. Most were started by Delta pilots years ago ........... big ATL base
