Remodeling a Hangar: Suggestions Requested

WindOnHisNose said:

Nice! I will do some research on this. My only concern is what kind of access one needs to service the reel system. I'll try to find the supplier/vendor and find out. Thanks, Mike.

Randy

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just make a screw on cover

WindOnHisNose said:

I don't know what a liquid densifier is, nor a vapor transmission test.

Is a liquid densifier related at all to a flux capacitor? :lol:

I hope the vapor transmission test is not what is used to detect those nasty gasses that Shrek had coming out of his ...

Seriously, what are they?

Randy

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The densifier is a liquid that reacts with the free calcium in the surface of the concrete (it is applied after polishing and cleaning) and makes it more impervious, which makes it liquid and dust repellent but it will still pass some moisture through in case of excessive sub-grade moisture.

The moisture vapor pressure test is used to measure the amount of water vapor that is trying to migrate through the concrete which without a mechanical vapor barrier or other measures is a regular occurance. This is really important if you are going to try to glue down a floor covering or paint it (even with epoxies) and if really strong floor stain. Most commercial mastic floor glues limit vapor transmission to 2 or 3 psi or less, any more and the glue bleeds up through the seams on small goods and with sheet vinyl it will form bubbles under and lift the flooring. With paint it will blister and fail with excessive vapor pressure and it looks like hell.

Old black mastics would resist a lot of moisture and it didn’t used to be a problem.

Hope that splains it.

Kirby

Counter point. No floor coatings for me. I don't protect my garage floor and the hangar is no different. I'll probably sweep it like my garage, too. With a backpack blower. No built in air. Not enough need to warrant it. A portable compressor and a rubber hose will work fine the three or four times a year I'll need it. No sound system. It's a big box. The absolute worst acoustics design possible. I want good lighting and lots of outlets. An adequate work bench near my roll-aways and that area needs even better lighting and more outlets. Commercial racking and a warehouse style rolling ladder. Snowmachine lift and lots of snowgo dollies. Skags are hard on concrete! I have a chain hoist that'll get quickly replaced with an electric version. It isn't on a rail so I'll need Gojacks to position the plane(s). I'm already sorry that I sold my last town-based 4-wheeler. A replacement unit is probably on the horizon for tugging planes and plowing snow.

With regard to floor coverings, I am needing to do something with the existing floor. The owner put down linoleum tile that is coming up from, I think, the 500K gallons of water that stood on it for quite some time. It is going to have to be removed and the underlying glue removed...that will be quite a job, and one I am not wanting to tackle.

I figure that some sort of machine will be used to grind off the glue, so might as well polish it up a bit.

Randy

Can't grind glue, Doc!

WindOnHisNose said:

With regard to floor coverings, I am needing to do something with the existing floor. The owner put down linoleum tile that is coming up from, I think, the 500K gallons of water that stood on it for quite some time. It is going to have to be removed and the underlying glue removed...that will be quite a job, and one I am not wanting to tackle.

I figure that some sort of machine will be used to grind off the glue, so might as well polish it up a bit.

Randy

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WindOnHisNose said:

With regard to floor coverings, I am needing to do something with the existing floor. The owner put down linoleum tile that is coming up from, I think, the 500K gallons of water that stood on it for quite some time. It is going to have to be removed and the underlying glue removed...that will be quite a job, and one I am not wanting to tackle.

I figure that some sort of machine will be used to grind off the glue, so might as well polish it up a bit.

Randy

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you can google concrete grinding, in places like AZ where there's a lot of remodeling taking place, people are doing just that. they rip up the old tile, then grind the glue off to a smooth finish, then start over with the new glue and tile.

Ruffair said:

you can google concrete grinding, in places like AZ where there's a lot of remodeling taking place, people are doing just that. they rip up the old tile, then grind the glue off to a smooth finish, then start over with the new glue and tile.

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Eddie, I am not well-versed in floor preparation...am going to let someone who knows what they are doing to have at it. It was my understanding that they take the diamond grinder to the floor after the tile has been removed. Ruffair, thanks for the input. I'm not going to put down tile again, that is for certain!

Randy

A floor scraper in the hands of a young guy with a good back will make short work of most tiles. Hopefully they used self-stick.

Randy,
If the glue is gummy it will just foul the grinder. However if it is hard and brittle, the grinder can handle it.

stewartb said:

A floor scraper in the hands of a young guy with a good back will make short work of most tiles. Hopefully they used self-stick.

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For a 3600 sf hanger, knock your socks off. Me I’d have it done or at the least check out Home Depot Rental and get a tile buster for a day.

I like hiring young guys who want to work. I used to be one!

Used a floor scraper on my paint booth floor to get the decades of old paint up. Between the scraper, MEK and paint stripper we got it clean but not much fun.

Shot peen blaster to get the old stuff off and prep for new floor. There is a place here which makes a bunch of industrial floor coatings: http://www.protectiveindustrialpolymers.com/

stewartb said:

I like hiring young guys who want to work. I used to be one!

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I agree, but getting harder to find them these days.

Randy, might do you good to include a coin operated bunk system so when us deadbeats come to hang out you can at least recoup your electric costs

I am following this floor discussion closely. We are backfilling our foundation right now, and the floor should get poured next week if all goes well.

I like a bright colored floor so I can see the little parts I just dropped, and makes the hangar brighter. But everyone here has great reasoning why not to do that.

Listening to any suggestions!

I finally gravitated to $20/gallon white oil based enamel and run snowmachine skegs on it, studs on it, don't put carpet under tires, can see lost bolts,... and don't worry about it when it get's scraped off in a patchy sort of way... the price to make it new again is $600 for a complete coat on an 80x100 hangar. I don't like dark grey concrete for the hangar light, don't like it for finding lost things, and can't see paying 30K for something I have to treat like gold and cant drag a set of floats across.. Also put in new LED lights to help see.. they have timers so you can use all your available watts that used to run the halides but be twice as bright, and they shut themselves off if you don't move. That saves money with twice the light.

80x100? Holy crap, that's big! How do you heat it?

aktango58 said:

I agree, but getting harder to find them these days.

Randy, might do you good to include a coin operated bunk system so when us deadbeats come to hang out you can at least recoup your electric costs

I am following this floor discussion closely. We are backfilling our foundation right now, and the floor should get poured next week if all goes well.

I like a bright colored floor so I can see the little parts I just dropped, and makes the hangar brighter. But everyone here has great reasoning why not to do that.

Listening to any suggestions!

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if you want to paint your floor put a heavy plastic vapor barrier down with overlapped and taped seams on top of the subgrade and then put 2-4 inches of fine sand over that to help the floor cure better and stay flat then etch or blast it before you paint.

My polished floor is shines in the light so you can see lost parts easily.

aktango58 said:

I like a bright colored floor so I can see the little parts I just dropped,

Listening to any suggestions!

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Since your plane sheds parts, you can find them easily. Also, scratch my name in your concrete, resale will increase. [emoji41]



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My Hangar

My Hangar in Argentina, SA

SteveE said:

Since your plane sheds parts, you can find them easily. Also, scratch my name in your concrete, resale will increase. [emoji41]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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aktango58 said:

I agree, but getting harder to find them these days.

Randy, might do you good to include a coin operated bunk system so when us deadbeats come to hang out you can at least recoup your electric costs

I am following this floor discussion closely. We are backfilling our foundation right now, and the floor should get poured next week if all goes well.

I like a bright colored floor so I can see the little parts I just dropped, and makes the hangar brighter. But everyone here has great reasoning why not to do that.

Listening to any suggestions!

Click to expand...

My hangar has a plain old concrete floor, but expertly finished. I keep a super bright LED work light handy for finding lost items, as I was reluctant to paint it or go the epoxy route, just cheap I guess. The light cost $20.00, compare that to paint/epoxy cost, and gets the job done, finding dropped parts. Making the hangar brighter is of more interest to me then finding lost parts, but I handled that by the lights I have, if ever did spring for a white floor, it'd be for the light refraction though, can't have too much light!

stewartb said:

80x100? Holy crap, that's big! How do you heat it?

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I bought it with a 1/3 partner.. was thinking of building a 60x60 but no land available.. this came available and my partner helped me make it real.
What I didn't know is that turned out to be least expensive option because it's big enough for our needs and still let some space for renters. The hangar is it's own LLC and does not generate any cash expense to either of us, even while providing space for our own airplanes.
For heat we started with oil... there was an on-demand water heater for the floor and a new 250K air heater. We ran the water heater at 60 constantly and that worked very well for about 50 in the hangar. If we wanted 65 in the winter that would cost about 2K per month.
Now we have natural gas. About 1/2 the floor areas are functional (prior owners let some freeze). We keep it at 58 on the floor year around with a single 250K burner. This burner also runs a couple of air heaters, so when anyone wants warmer air they can just turn up the blast. The highest month we have experienced with about 20F outside average is $600. We have 4 renters and their payments offset all costs. The point of this is that I had no idea when I bought it, but a bigger hangar turned out to be less out of pocket than a small one, because even one renter is a hassle, so you might as well have enough to make it worth it.. and four of them are really no problem.
For Mr. Stewart.. I saw your post and it reminded me to look at my GoJacks.. Mine are the 6313 model with #1575 per unit allowed.. they are 14" center to center when fully collapsed. I love 'em except for the aforementioned limitations. I would really like to hear from Mr. Mike about his ideas for an elegant way to make them "all purpose" I haven't come up with one yet... 2x4s spit right out.. I can tell you that. Most of the planes in the hangar work well with them but the amphibs and the wheel skis don't play well.

My hanger floor is just concrete. After working on an epoxy painted floor for years I would like it but not worth the expence. I like the brightness and ease of cleaning up oil etc.

Steve Pierce said:

My hanger floor is just concrete. After working on an epoxy painted floor for years I would like it but not worth the expence. I like the brightness and ease of cleaning up oil etc.

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Epoxy paint would be cheap compared to the move it all out and the prep-cost...

So with help from Google I see there are breathable epoxies now. Interesting. I don't expect to add it to my 7 year old floor because it isn't important enough to warrant the inconvenience and expense for prep but for a guy in Randy's situation who's already doing floor prep it may be a worthwhile option.

stewartb said:

So with help from Google I see there are breathable epoxies now. Interesting. I don't expect to add it to my 7 year old floor because it isn't important enough to warrant the inconvenience and expense for prep but for a guy in Randy's situation who's already doing floor prep it may be a worthwhile option.

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Interesting.

I have a question regarding the RapidAir system. I am leaning toward that.

Can someone take a photo of the air drops? I have been planning to run the lines before covering the walls, but don't have a concept of how that could be done in terms of positioning the drops. Also, my son expressed concern that he has seen the connections become loosened, necessitating replacement...which would be a real drag if the system is run behind the walls.

With regard to the floor, I am currently leaning toward having the linoleum removed, ground down and polished...at least before I read results of your investigation, Stewart. Breathable epoxy might be a nice thing to explore. Thanks!

Randy

I would not run the air lines behind the walls if it were me. I had one leak where we didn't slide the tubing far enough into the compression fitting in the over 2 years I have had the system. I still feel better with them outside the walls where accessible. I am more of a function Iver form kinda guy.

My hangar has a 60 foot wide door but they slide on tracks. Is it economically possible to put in a bifold door? It’s a wood frame building.

Hangar or a commercial shop. The comments can be divided into those categories. I’ve had production shops all my adult life. Never had an airplane hangar before. I don’t want my hangar to be a shop. I’m more interested in keeping it clean and inviting. I’d like my wife to enjoy being there, and that won’t happen if it smells and feels like a shop. I’ll get the dirty work done somewhere else.

No, keep your air lines out of the walls. Problems will be easily correctable and modifications will also be easy. Anything that might, just might, want modification should be accessible.